loader help

[victorfb]

at what point does a loader help? i allways thought that a loader really didnt start helping/working till you get to the upper rpms. but recently i have read that it has helped some people with thier holeshots. so im confused. i want to run a loader when at the lake or deeper parts of the river, but at the shallow ares like LL, big river, or blyth, i am thinking i should run the stock grate to help keep out the larger rocks. if the loader is really only for top end, i have no problem being without it, but i would hate to lose the hard pulling holeshot. i guess im just worried about screwing up a new pump.

[bigriverdog]

Victor, just my 2 cents. Most loaders don't sit much lower than the pick up so I don't think you should worry about water depth. Loader or stock grate your going to pick up small rocks in shallow water. The stock grate will only keep out the big stuff. Depending on the loader you use they will lower your RPM, because they stuff the pump with more water. If you are not running big horsepower and want to improve your hole shot, I would recommend an inducer impeller. See ya at Big River. Bob

[HammerDown]

Vic, there are several loaders on the market...do yourself a solid and call one of the Big Guy's for advice as to what one will work best for you type of Hull/Pump etc. I got mine from Tom Papp and it was more or less designed for my 21 Daytona.
The holeshot from a dead start was never that great with my big Hull...however from a slight roll...it's very impressive.

[victorfb]

well here is what ill be running...
18' rogers, Berkeley JG stage 1 1/2 from MPD with an AB cut. droop snoot, ride plate and shoe, and place diverter. power coming from a BBC 502 crate with GM aluminium heads 2.25int/1.88exh.110 chamber. around 9.6 CR. comp cams hyd rollerXR288HR dur @.050 236int/242exh. .521int/.540exh lift lobe sep angle of 110. a 850 Demon vac sec carb, ontop of an edelbrock air gap rpm performer with 1 inch spacer. MSD dist. with Box, OT headers. est. 570HP but still dont have the dyno sheet to see were the torque curve is. from what ive researched i should be spinning around 5400 to 5500 rpm.
i understand there is no way to keep out all the rocks and ickies from entering the intake, but im betting the stock grate will help with the bigger rocks, and the weeds will get sucked against the grate but not as much wrapped around the shaft and impeller. (those damn gas docks!)

[Mopar426]

I had Jet performance in Phoenix build me a top loader. He said it would help me out a lot if I had a hook in the hull. His only concern was saftey mainly on installation. It was a bitch to install correctly. Had to drill and tap and put jam nuts on the top side. I used hardened bolts not stainless. I see more gains on the upper side and it didn't really increase out of the hole performance. I don't pick up as much seaweed as I did with the stock grate.

[screamdreambrad]

vic, i would try a loader with about 10 inches of block in it. if you would like to see one come up here to mo valley and i'll be glad to show ya whats up. i'll be out workin on the race boat all day tomorrow. i'd post a pic but i don't have anyway to do it. 909 522-9799 take ya about 30-45 minutes to get here from fallbrook. brad

[victorfb]

hey Brad.
that would be great. i would definatly like to see what you have and compare it to what i have, and possibly trace the specs. id like to make a stainless one as mine is not. i did get a peek at a few at MPD the other day, but didnt want to get too nosey if you know what i mean. ill give you call tomorrow. thanks man..:D

[UBFJ #454]

Vic - I would Strongly Suggest that you NOT make a loader out of Stainless ... stainless is far to brittle for the stresses that a loader is subjected to ... use either cold or hot rolled steel ... we use 3/16ths hot rolled and MIG welder for the ones we make for our drag boat, but, I would suggest 1/4 inch, either hot or cold rolled, for a loader for a lake or river boat.
Also, I would suggest that you do talk with Jack McClure at MPD about loaders as he is very knowledgeable about the different kinds, what their differences in performances are ... and ... he is quite approachable and open to helping jetters learn about their boats and the components in them. You might also want to check out the section on his website where he has posted pictures of various loaders he has made and describes the notation system he uses.
One last comment ... It is our experience that a loader, especially a top loader, that works on one boat will not necessarily work in another as they are very boat particular "Critters" ... The water direction characteristics that are built into the loader (really a water directing device) must be designed so as to match the characteristics inherent to the combination of the boat's Hp, hull, keel, intake, pump and impeller type & cut in order to get the desired performance from them ... Note, the faster the boat ... the tricker the design ... above 100 mph an 1/4, sometimes an 1/8th of an inch in certain dimensions can really make a big difference.

[mgar_red]

Originally posted by Mopar426
I had Jet performance in Phoenix build me a top loader. He said it would help me out a lot if I had a hook in the hull.
How exactly does a loader help if a hull is hooked? Just wanted to ask in case I may benefit from one.

[victorfb]

BEAR_454PE. thanks for the great tip and warning. i could have sworn i saw some stainless ones at jacks shop, and thats why i figured it was ok to use SS. obviously i was mistaken. we did go over loaders a bit there, but not materials used, just design, angles, and length. and of course characteristics of each. and you couldnt be more right about Jack, he is a wealth of usefull knowledge, and is extremely helpfull and willing to explain why and how things work or do not work. i will not go into what he had told me specifically, as there are way too many people on here that love to contradict anyone/everyones ideas and knowledge. that would be unfair to jack, and he does not deserve that at all. ive mentioned in a differant thread that he is one guy that i respect and trust. cant say that about too many these days.
the rolled steel is actually cheaper and easier to work with. so thats even better. my only reason for wanting the SS was the fact that my loader now is rusted to shzit. is there a reason you use MIG on your loaders VS using TIG?
ive come to realize that every hull acts differantly to ANY changes or additions. some good, some not so good. but as for the 100MPH mark, i wont even come close. if you go back and read my specs, youll see that its a pretty mild engine. im going for more torque than anything as it is my belief that is what gives you a strong holeshot. (but this has been argued about way too much on other threads):D with my set up i am thinking ill be in the mid 70s MPH. but to tell you the truth, i have no idea.

[UBFJ #454]

We use MIG because we have it and using 3/16 ths we wanted the strongest welds we could get. Also, some of the designs we're trying only allow welding on one side in some areas so we wanted good penetration and wide, well bonded welds. For construction of most loaders Stick or TIG is fine, obviously the penetration must be set correctly and proper weld material used.
As far as rusting ... we clean and spray coat our loaders with graphite before every race and every time we change them ... but that's for racing. For the lake or river, I would simply drop the loader at the start of every weekend before leaving the house, clean and inspect it then spray paint it to protect it and go and have fun ... I would change the #8 black loader bolts as needed or a couple of times a season as they are under considerable stress when the boat is running. When inspecting the loader should you spot a cracked weld or broken piece you should change it before taking the boat to water.