Blowin' Water

[Kindsvater Flat]

Ok.....some of you I have called but I would like other input also. Last sunday at wide open throttle, 65-6600, the motor blows water from between the head and the block. There is NO water in the motor. It will not do it sitting still at that rpm. It will do it underway. Now it never did this before I went to the alum heads, bigger pistons, cam etc.... I also changed the gears from 12% to 19%. Obviously speed is the issue. Here is a diagram of how it is plumbed. This is also the smaller neovane pump.
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/mike/plumbing.JPG
Transom side.............................................. .....engine side

[Rexone]

Sounds like a water passage in the head gasket not sealed adequately (I have the same problem)... leaking externally only. I think it's likely more of a gasket match, sealing issue than a plumbing issue. The small neovane shouldn't have the capacity to overpressurize from my experience.

[Sangster]

Make sure you got the right gaskets for your application....I think Rexone's got the right info.. Leaky gasket..........:cool:
BTW.. Whats the oil look like??

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Rexone
Sounds like a water passage in the head gasket not sealed adequately (I have the same problem)... leaking externally only. I think it's likely more of a gasket match, sealing issue than a plumbing issue. The small neovane shouldn't have the capacity to overpressurize from my experience.
Ok...buuut... Its not leaking in just one place. Its leaking at both heads almost all the way around. I don't think its the neovane overpressurizing but a combination of the pump and the speed of the water being forced in at speed.

[Sangster]

Mike are you siliconing the intake to the block or using a gasket..
I'm finding it hard to be a speed problem..:D :D :D

[Jetboatguru]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/mike/plumbing.JPG
Transom side.............................................. .....engine side
OK, did anyone notice the fine detail of this schematic?
NICE K Flat!!!!!!!1

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Sangster
Mike are you siliconing the intake to the block or using a gasket..
I'm finding it hard to be a speed problem..:D :D :D
DUDE.......Mopar, no water in the intake:D

[Hud]

Indeed Mikey! very f**kin nice!:cool: :D

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Jetboatguru
OK, did anyone notice the fine detail of this schematic?
NICE K Flat!!!!!!!1
Detailed just for you buddy!! Sometimes its just hard to explain farmer engineering.:D

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Ok...buuut... Its not leaking in just one place. Its leaking at both heads almost all the way around. I don't think its the neovane overpressurizing but a combination of the pump and the speed of the water being forced in at speed.
You can easily answer this dilemma with a pressure gauge test.
My guess is it's a head gasket match or sealing problem. What kind of heads and head gaskets are you using?

[Sangster]

........................."FIXED ORFICE"....................

[Rexone]

MOPAR... what's that? :eek:
No wonder you're having problems... :D

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Rexone
You can easily answer this dilemma with a pressure gauge test.
My guess is it's a head gasket match or sealing problem. What kind of heads and head gaskets are you using?
Stage VI Mopar alum heads with a Fel-Pro 1009 gasket. Same gasket I have always used.

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Sangster
........................."FIXED ORFICE"....................
If the fixed orfice (orifice) didn't change with the head install that is prolly not it.

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Stage VI Mopar alum heads with a Fel-Pro 1009 gasket. Same gasket I have always used.
Sorry dude my Mopar knowledge is less than zero. All I know about em is the used to put em in Cudas n GTX's n stuff. :D

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Rexone
Sorry dude my Mopar knowledge is less than zero. All I know about em is the used to put em in Cudas n GTX's n stuff. :D
Don't forget farm equipment. :D

[Fiat48]

Naturally you will have more water pressure with the boat at speed. But should seal anyway.
What Rex said. Also check the heads are flat. Check the deck is flat. Ultra Blue silicone water ports on block and heads.

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Don't forget farm equipment. :D
yeah that goes without saying. I hear they use Fords too. :D

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Rexone
yeah that goes without saying. I hear they use Fords too. :D
We used to have a bunch of caddy flathead 8's laying around at one time that were in bank-outs

[smalls]

K, I think you may be building to much presure in the motor by having the Orfices on the outlet lines. It is like dead heading.
All the Volume and presure need to be regulated before the water goes in the motor,,
It's like puttin yo thumb on the end of a leaky hose, I just leaks worse.....
This may not be the only problem. But it will increase any little leak.
HE SAID ORFICE.......

[BigBoyToys]

Just grasping at straws here, but which block do ya have K-Flat? Is it an "RB" or maybe a "B"?
Also, are those new heads? I think I recalled ya getting new heads this past summer...:confused: And has it leaked since you put the new heads on or is this the first time?

[Kindsvater Flat]

its a 440 so thats a RB block. Yes these are the new heads and yes this is the first time leaking.

[BigBoyToys]

Here's why I ask,
"Mopar makes a special valley tray for the Stage VI's. 4876847 for the B blocks
4876848 for the RB blocks.
You probably already know, but you'll need to use Stage VI 440 intake manifold spacers when using Stage VI heads with an RB manifold on an RB block".
This is a direct quote taken off of a Mopar Forum on Stage VI Alum Mopar heads. I don't know much about mopars anymore but 25 years ago....maybe:rolleyes: Anyway, the forum I found is at http://www.moparts.com/Tech/Archive/bb/33.html You may want to check it out if ya haven't yet. They have some pretty interesting tech and performance tips there.
Sorry I'm not much help. Best advice I could say is.....Drop a Chevy in that thing and make it Fly!:D

[Moneypitt]

Mike, any chance the head bolts/studs are dead. Just a shot in the dark..................................Moneypitt

[Kindsvater Flat]

The valley cover that mopar makes sucks. Mines made of alum. If I didn't have the spacers I couldn't run the tunnel ram. They don't make a manifold wide enough. But if these heads were on a 383 you could use a 440 intake without the spacers. BTW no water goes through the intake system.

[Kindsvater Flat]

Originally posted by Moneypitt
Mike, any chance the head bolts/studs are dead. Just a shot in the dark..................................Moneypitt
studs are in blind holes. Plus there isn't a whole lot of time on this motor

[BigBoyToys]

Just found some info on the Fel Pro 1009 that can cause a head gasket failure. Here's a link http://www.moparts.com/Tech/Archive/bb/2.html
Like I said, I don't know anything about the Mopars and I know that you are in the Mechanic field and know way more about the stuff than I do. Just trying to help out by finding other possible causes

[LeE ss13]

Just for a test, put a 0 to 60 psi gauge on the cooling system on the block. Run it. If it goes over 40 psi, it will always leak from the heads. Automotive engine were designed to withstand 18 psi, not 40+. Never, ever restrict the outlet of a Neovane or MagnaFlow water pump. Waste the water before it goes into the block. Just my $.02

[Kindsvater Flat]

I have read that before. My issue is not with the combustion chamber but with the water jackets. Cylinders are tight.

[BigBoyToys]

Ok. I'm out of ideas. Sorry I couldn't be of more help:frown: :confused:

[Sangerboy]

Originally posted by Kindsvater Flat
Detailed just for you buddy!! Sometimes its just hard to explain farmer engineering.:D
I understood it........ I think:D

[VD CRUISER]

Did that diagram show 2 -8 pickups going into a -10 and into the pump? Wouldn't 2 pickups provide more pressure and volume than needed. I only use 1 -10 pickup for my blown deal and it runs about 120-130 deg.

[Snowboat]

At that rpm you're hauling ass. Are you positive where the water is leaking from? Do you have a trusted passenger, or are you looking yourself?

[Kindsvater Flat]

We both looked. If anything I have an onboard fire suppresion system. :rolleyes:

[DansBlown73Nordic]

My 66 Stevens has a 402 in it. Ever since I bought it water has leaked out of the front of the heads. I pulled the motor apart once and had the heads and block surfaced. I put it all back together. For the first couple times out it was fine. The next thing I know water is seeping out under the heads.....:eek!:
I have run it for four years this way. It has never gotten a drop of water in the oil. I should say this only makes some bubbles, not enough to take a shower.....:D
I run a electric pump from a camper. It works GREAT. If I was to show you guys that plumbing job you would all laugh like HELL. It is a set-up that uses a car style water pump.
I will look and see if I have a picture of the set-up.

[DansBlown73Nordic]

This is the only picture I can find...

[DansBlown73Nordic]

I run logs on this boat normally. I got these headers and wanted to try them out. So did a quick plumbing job to use them. I don't want you guys thinking it looks like that all the time....:eek:
The cooling parts are Aeromarine? I think that is what it is called. It has a regular automotive pump that helps circulate the water through the motor.
Originally it had a belt driven Neovane pump that pump the water to the motor. At some time in its life someone decided to use a electric camper water pump. It works really good. I have run it dry lots of times. So far it has never skipped a beat......:D