AGGRESSOR (OOTB) SS pics for HBjet

[Jake W]

Hears a few pics.http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4324Aggressor3.jpg
and http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4324Aggressor4.jpg
Jake:eek:

[Mr Twister]

SWEET....

[1tricky1]

Damn! That is perdy! What size/cut is it?

[Jake W]

It' s an A ,its home will be a blown 19 Eliminator tunnel.
Jake:D

[565edge]

Well where is hbchet.I mean hbjet.Here is your pic.Didnt hbjets buddy put a aggressor impeller in his ultra last year?Didnt it run better than before?So why does he still bitch?Anyways good looking impeller.I will be getting a new aggressor mag-bronze pretty soon.

[Jet Hydro]

Hey Jake, after you left I talked Brian in to driving my Hydro so I can see it run for the first time :D
Don't tell Duane....lol...

[HammerDown]

Bling-Bling...:eek: :cool:

[Jake W]

Jethydro, How did he like it?Bet it was cold as hell.:eek:
Jake:D

[Willis]

Feb. 24, 2004
565 Edge,
Allen, are you racing this year?
Well I will there and we will be in the 8.50 Brackets this year. :eek:
Willis :rolleyes:

[ChetCapoli]

Somebody isnt actually going to use that impeller in a blower boat without first having it cleaned up are they? :confused: Geez after seeing this picture and HB's "race detailed" impeller, there really isnt any comparsion is there??. I'm sorry HB.
CHET

[Jake W]

Well Chet since I am a tell the truth kind of guy yes they are going to clean it up befor it gets used.Ha ha ha (disclamer it was very nice looking I would just use the dam thing)but then I do not work at a jet boat shop either.Any one in the buis is going to clean up their pump to their liking befor they run it and why not, they can.
Jake:D

[HBjet]

That's a nice looking impeller for what I can see, and thanks for posting the photos. From what I can tell, it's sure looks pretty darn clean, but it's sorta hard to compare the corners and edge of the blades between this photo and the photo I took. None the less, it does look a lot better then the Aggressor Alum. I saw a few years ago. Who ever is going to run it I'm sure will be very happy with it's performance.
NEW Aggressor Stainless
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4324AggressorSS2.jpg
Worked Berkeley
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20HB_s_Impeller.jpg
BTW, 565, no, that person with the blown Ultra ran a Legend stainless.
HBjet

[Jake W]

Have you guys ever heard of blade indexing(sp)well Duane showed us a blade indexer he uses to clean up imp.First he put it on a Berkeley imp and the blades were way off from one another some to the point of qurter inch.But the Aggressor was right on.
I am not trying to be like I love Aggressor but some things are shown to you in person well it makes you think mabey its worth a nother look.(stock vs stock)
Also please leave this as a Aggressor verses Berkeley thing not a HTP vs MPD.
Jake:D

[HBjet]

I will say I totally think the Aggressor STOCK SS impeller looks better then a Berkeley STOCK SS impeller any day of the week...
Chet or someone's argument to me was why would I buy the impeller I did verses buying a new Aggressor... 1. Cost 2. Already cleaned up.
HBjet

[Jet Hydro]

Originally posted by Jake W
Jethydro, How did he like it?Bet it was cold as hell.:eek:
Jake:D
We haven't done it yet, I`v got that car show this weekend to do so I didn't want to get it wet yet.
I just repainted the trailer fenders and I`m doing some spot painting on the trailer.
I`m sure he`ll like it after he get`s over the fact that there`s no ass in the boat...lol... He asked me if I had "ever seen it hole shot?" I said "no" He told me "the ass end makes a big hole and goes below the water line." I said cool cant wait to see it :D
I`m sure after the show I`ll call him to see if he`s ready to take it for a spin before I cut the pod down.

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by HBjet
I will say I totally think the Aggressor STOCK SS impeller looks better then a Berkeley STOCK SS impeller any day of the week...
Chet or someone's argument to me was why would I buy the impeller I did verses buying a new Aggressor... 1. Cost 2. Already cleaned up.
HBjet
HBJET WATCH YOUR TONGUE BOY!! No donuts for you!!
Seriously though...if i had my choice, i would buy a berk SS for $995.00 + the $400.00 "race detail" anyday over thr $880 Aggressor SS job with free shim kit. There is just no comparision. :confused:
CHET

[HBjet]

Sorry, your about $500 to high for what I have into that impeller as you see it!
HBjet

[TopCat]

Originally posted by HBjet
That's a nice looking impeller for what I can see, and thanks for posting the photos. From what I can tell, it's sure looks pretty darn clean, but it's sorta hard to compare the corners and edge of the blades between this photo and the photo I took. None the less, it does look a lot better then the Aggressor Alum. I saw a few years ago. Who ever is going to run it I'm sure will be very happy with it's performance.
NEW Aggressor Stainless
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4324AggressorSS2.jpg
Worked Berkeley
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20HB_s_Impeller.jpg
BTW, 565, no, that person with the blown Ultra ran a Legend stainless.
HBjet quite abit of dif between the 2/ the aggressor seem to hav bigger blades with more pitch r these comparable?

[disco_charger]

I asked about this in a different thread. I've heard the Aggressor A is like a Berk AA...Is that about right? That new Aggressor is a nice piece. Looks like a good deal for 1K. Would love to try one with the 9 vane, just can't justufy the money since my stuff works. Looked at the 9 vane that Brock had. It's got some nice workmanship. Would love to see if my boat picked up X amount of MPH.

[HBjet]

Disco, I think you are right about the Aggressor A, like a Berk AA... But has anyone really tried and compaired the 2... to be sure?
The only thing I would want to compare between the 2 right now is the detail of the STOCK verses one that has been worked.
Sorry for the large photo, but here is the original shot at 100%
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20detailview.jpg
I was hoping for a photo like this of the Aggressor, because it's harder to see in the provided photo areas that may need to be cleaned up to look this nice.
PS. thanks again for the photos... very cool!
HBjet

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

I knew you guys needed a microscope:rolleyes: I think more people took pictures HBjet and maybe some more 'acceptable' pictures will show up:p
Omega

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

maybe these will help answer your questions. Notice how well the 'out of the box' is represented.:)
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box1-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box2-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box3-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box4-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box5-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box7-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523box8-med.jpg
Omega

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

eat your heart out HBjet! Magbronze
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor2-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor5-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor6-med.jpg
Omega

[Ken F]

Yes, there is quite a bit more pitch to the agressor. that is why you need to run one size smaller if you switch from Berk to Agr. They just push more water...add an agressor bowl to match, and you got the "E" ticket.
Ken F

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

notice how on the aggressor impellers the blade of the impeller comes all the way out the edge of the impeller utilizing more surface area!!! Notice HBjet's 'worked' impeller the blade is shy of the edge of the impeller by about a 1/4" at least. I'm no genius but it seems to me the more surface area on the 'biting' edge of the impeller will equal more water being moved or better absorbtion of hp(?) look closely at the pics and you will see what I mean.
berkley!!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20HB_s_Impeller.jpg
Aggressor!!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor5-med.jpg
you decide!!!
Omega

[HappyBag]

If you took all the rings, bracelet, and watch off that dude and melted it down, there would probably be enough gold to plate an aluminum impeller. Bet it would look just like that magbronze deal. Just plain bitchen.:) :wink:

[cyclone]

my 2 cents here.
The aggressor stainless looks really nice. Juding by the photos, the edges do not look as sharp and the casting looks like its not perfect but no castings are. The edges are not as sharp as the ones on HB's massaged impeller. Do sharp edges make that much of a difference? who knows but that wasn't the the original question here.
Chet gave randy crap for buying a used impeller and paying to have it worked over. The cost being close to the same, Randy's impeller does looks cleaner judging from the photos of both impellers. Randy's pics are a bit more sharp and detailed so its easy to see the work put into his impeller.
This is not a bash on aggressor because that is a beautiful impeller and would work great on any boat. But i can see why randy would jump at buying a fully race detailed impeller for near the same amount of money. He obviously is trying to extract every ounce of performance out of his boat.
The aggressory may be a better design right out of the box but we'll never know because no one is doing a head to head comparison. I for one would like to see it.
Now it would be nice to stop the bs bashing between everyone and get back to finding out the facts. We need a test here guys....

[HBjet]

Originally posted by OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
notice how on the aggressor impellers the blade of the impeller comes all the way out the edge of the impeller utilizing more surface area!!! Notice HBjet's 'worked' impeller the blade is shy of the edge of the impeller by about a 1/4" at least. I'm no genius but it seems to me the more surface area on the 'biting' edge of the impeller will equal more water being moved or better absorbtion of hp(?) look closely at the pics and you will see what I mean.
berkley!!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20HB_s_Impeller.jpg
Aggressor!!!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/523aggressor5-med.jpg
you decide!!!
Omega
I believe Aggressor is the only impeller that is like that. Also, if the blade on the Berkeley continued upward/forward along the outside until it met the front of the impeller, it would look just like an Aggressor wouldn't it...
Major R&D there!
Thanks for all the pics. I think it's funny how you got a shot of the box opening, etc. Thanks again, and like I said before, I am very impressed with the OUT of the BOX quality these impellers have given the photo's provided.
HBjet

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Originally posted by HBjet
I believe Aggressor is the only impeller that is like that. Also, if the blade on the Berkeley continued upward/forward along the outside until it met the front of the impeller, it would look just like an Aggressor wouldn't it...
Major R&D there!
Thanks for all the pics. I think it's funny how you got a shot of the box opening, etc. Thanks again, and like I said before, I am very impressed with the OUT of the BOX quality these impellers have given the photo's provided.
HBjet
I cannot take credit for the pics. I only posted them. they were taken to appease you though!
I know TexasJet has some pics being developed currently and he supposedly got some real close up shots for ya;) Maybe tomorrow he will have them and I can post them.
Omega

[miller19j]

http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data/500/4324AggressorSS2.jpg
One thing that you can see from this picture is the amount of secondary machining operations done on this Impeller. Notice the leading edge of the wear ring surface, it appears to be turned true. Without putting it on a shaft and putting an indicator on it you can’t tell how true it is. But they have to all the trouble of cleaning it up so I am going to assume that it is true. Plus they have clearly cleaned and trued up the blades. That is a very nice impeller!

[HavasuDreamin']

Just out of curiosity for someone who doesn't know, what are the pros/cons of a mag bronze impeller vs. a stainless?

[OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET]

Originally posted by HavasuDreamin'
Just out of curiosity for someone who doesn't know, what are the pros/cons of a mag bronze impeller vs. a stainless?
mag bronze is cheaper than stainless and stronger than aluminum. It bridges the gap between stock aluminum impellers and race stainless impellers.
Omega

[TexasJet]

The reason you get to see a stainless impeller is because Brian, the guy that works with Duane, broke a mag bronze. Seems he got a little unexpected air time and overreved his bad ass bown tunnel hull. He decided to go to stainless and thats the impeller we are looking at.:)

[MudPumper]

I was told that one of the reasons the stainless impellers are so expensive is because they are hard to cast. I heard it takes about 4 trys at the foundry to get one good SS impeller. Is this true? I broke two blades off of my AL impeller so I upgraded to an Aggressor MagBronze. I'm real happy with the performance so far. I would post some pics but it's in the boat and I never took any before it went in.:frown: :D

[Bense468]

Originally posted by MudPumper
I was told that one of the reasons the stainless impellers are so expensive is because they are hard to cast. I heard it takes about 4 trys at the foundry to get one good SS impeller. Is this true? I broke two blades off of my AL impeller so I upgraded to an Aggressor MagBronze. I'm real happy with the performance so far. I would post some pics but it's in the boat and I never took any before it went in.:frown: :D
Well its time to tear her all down again just to get some pics ;)

[MudPumper]

Actually I'm considering another pump rebuild and bottom blueprint. Just gotta get the cash.:D

[OkieDave]

A stainless impellor can be welded, repaired. a mag-bronze can't.
I broke a stainless onetime and had it fixed and you couldn't tell the diff.

[matt1]

Originally posted by okiedave
A stainless impellor can be welded, repaired. a mag-bronze can't.
I broke a stainless onetime and had it fixed and you couldn't tell the diff.
so if I have a stainless C cut and want to make it an A or a B can I just weld it up and remachine it.

[Jetmugg]

The Manganese Bronze alloy used is a good compromise of properties, but is not a weldable alloy. Contrary to the popular "Mag-Bronze" description, there is no Magnesium in this alloy. A more accurate description is Mn-Bronze, but it doesn't roll off the tongue as well. I don't have my Copper Development Assn. handbook handy, but I think that the alloy used is C86300. It is an alloy of Copper, Zinc, Manganese, Iron, and Aluminum. It has good tensile and yield strength (110 Ksi and 60Ksi respectively), but tends to suffer from less than optimum impact strength and relatively low elongation before fracture (12%). This family of alloys offer ease of castability and machining, which allow for relatively low-cost production methods (as compared to the SS alloys). A typical pouring temperature for an alloy like this would be about 1800F.
In contrast, type 316 SS offers lower tensile and yield strengths (about 80 Ksi and 40 Ksi respectively), but in many cases exhibit elongation percentages greater than 50% before fracture, and very high impact resistance. This family of alloys can take a lot of abuse before failure. The 300 series of stainless steels are very readily weldable by several methods (stick, mig, tig), but are not ideal foundry alloys. A typical pouring temperature for a 300 series SS is about 2850F, which frequently leads to a lot of burned on sand, hot tears, and foundry related defects. The machinability is lower than the Mn Bronzes, and when combined with burned on sand, becomes rather costly to cast and machine.
There are some other ferrous and non-ferrous alloys which could make impellers of equal or superior properties than those currently used, but 300 series SS and Manganese Bronzes are pretty "common" foundry products which are already well documented and proven in service.
SteveM

[Duane HTP]

Somebody isnt actually going to use that impeller in a blower boat without first having it cleaned up are they? Geez after seeing this picture and HB's "race detailed" impeller, there really isnt any comparsion is there??. I'm sorry HB.
Chet, There's quite a bit of compairson for a stock imp vs a race prepped imp. It would help a lot if only you knew what you were looking for. But since you don't, the shinny is probably all that counts to you.
An impeller just like that, is what Roger won the PE Chanpionship with two years in a row. So, It can't possibly be all bad, can it?
Would you like to see another picture of it after it's race prepped?

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by Duane HTP
An impeller just like that, is what Roger won the PE Chanpionship with two years in a row. So, It can't possibly be all bad, can it?
No need to sell me on brand X, i run it. I just posted that to get my boy HBJet going but he knows i'm bustin chops so he didnt bite. He knows better. :D
This statement really needs to be directed to ol HB, he could read stuff like what you posted all day long.... wouldnt do any good....he'd never at least try it except for free. He rather spend $950 with his shops blessing than try and run faster for $880.00. Never question 30yrs experience.:confused:
CHET

[Duane HTP]

Okay, I hear YA. It was fun.

[Jet Hydro]

Chet,
I don't think you caught what Duane is saying here.???
There`s more to an Impeller than the shinny pic`s you see here on the forums. Just because the Aggressor is as shinny and smooth isn't the point. It`s all in the shape and angle of the blades, the Indexing and so on that set`s them apart. You nor I or anyone else can see the angle or indexing ect "" "" "" in a pic, Yes they booth look good but only the Aggressor is aggressive on the angle of the dangle so to say. There`s many factors to what makes a good impeller, you must look at it from all angles to see, ( but first you have to know what to look for!)
It`s not just how pretty it look`s!

[Jake W]

Blade angles
Jack posted a pic a while back of several imps with the rings cut off so you could see the blades it was a cool pic can any one dig it up?
Jake:D

[HammerDown]

Ahhhh, the Aggressor is dare I say it....Aggressive!

[HBjet]

So, is the Aggressor impeller actually have a different pitch, or is just the blade extended further forward like this photo?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20aggdiff-med.jpg
Thanks
HBjet

[HBjet]

Originally posted by ChetCapoli
he'd never at least try it except for free.
Coming from the guy who thinks I have money to burn on anything, and everyone!
So, when are we swapping impellers again? Your Aggressor for my Legend? Remember, you brought it up saying you would swap with me if I wanted.... well, this is like the 6th time I've asked you, but you never answer... afraid to swap them now?
HBjet

[Jet Hydro]

Chet do it man, then you could post a pic of the W/R while you had the impeller out.

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by HBjet
Coming from the guy who thinks I have money to burn on anything, and everyone!
You do have money when it comes to your shops recommendations dont ya? Shit, you have an open checkbook and you know it! :eek:
So, when are we swapping impellers again? Your Aggressor for my Legend? Remember, you brought it up saying you would swap with me if I wanted.... well, this is like the 6th time I've asked you, but you never answer... afraid to swap them now?
HBjet
I'm not afraid of much hb....you messin around...maybe. Only problem is my impeller is in my pump right now. Tryin to pursuade the local to lend me one...he doesnt want to get involved with the drama.....you know me and you with drama....hand in hand. :D
I'm still workin on it...just keep drooling over that brand X stainless in the meantime and wonder if it would have made you faster.....:D Better yet get me my numbers i asked for.
CHET
P.S. they machine those impellers on a different blade angle than berkeley from what i gather.

[TopCat]

Originally posted by HBjet
So, is the Aggressor impeller actually have a different pitch, or is just the blade extended further forward like this photo?
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20aggdiff-med.jpg
Thanks
HBjet Maybe i'm wrong i really dont know but it seems to me if you didnt chg the pitch along with making the blades bigger or longer you would start to constrict water flow...Wheres POP1 when we need him

[Cas]

Originally posted by ChetCapoli
You do have money when it comes to your shops recommendations dont ya? Shit, you have an open checkbook and you know it! :eek:
[B]
I'm not afraid of much hb....you messin around...maybe. Only problem is my impeller is in my pump right now. Tryin to pursuade the local to lend me one...he doesnt want to get involved with the drama.....you know me and you with drama....hand in hand. :D
I'm still workin on it...just keep drooling over that brand X stainless in the meantime and wonder if it would have made you faster.....:D Better yet get me my numbers i asked for.
CHET
P.S. they machine those impellers on a different blade angle than berkeley from what i gather.
ya know Chet, up until now, I kept my mouth shut as what you posted was your opinion. The way I see it is you're the one blowing smoke. You're backing down from your offer with HB and you've made comments about the Ultimate wear ring but have yet to produce it either.
You want HB to pull his pump apart for the switch but you're not? What's up with that? Maybe you're the one that's lacking the true confidence in what you have.
I really think it's time you put up or shut up.......pretty simple huh?

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by Cas
You want HB to pull his pump apart for the switch but you're not? What's up with that? Maybe you're the one that's lacking the true confidence in what you have.
I really think it's time you put up or shut up.......pretty simple huh?
Ya know Cas, as usual you and most people that dont follow CLOSELY enough wouldnt' notice HB is trading up his OLD impeller that is already out of the boat not the new berk SS..understand?? If you dont know what month february means in the north it means SNOW and things are put away as of right now.
Hopefully i made that as simple as you. :D Now go back to your washed up laid back forum and talk about panthers(or cookouts etc, etc..) to whoever will listen. When you get to 87MPH or better with that panther or the new berk you have now let me know...otherwise get your story straight before you post k??
CHET

[Cas]

ya see Chet, I'm really not one that cares how fast my boat goes, I don't really care how fast yours is or HB's for that matter. You put up the offer so it's you that needs to produce. HB has already put up numbers about his engine and what his boat does.
You're blowing smoke, you have yet to prove didley squat. You make BS statements and don't back them up.
again, put up or shut up!

[Ken F]

HB-
Yes, there is a DEFINATE difference in the angles on an agressor. Much more agressive pardon the pun. That's really why they pump more water than Berk.
Or, why they recommend going from an A Berk to a B agressor when doing an impeller change (i.e.)
Ken F

[pops1]

Originally posted by Willis
Feb. 24, 2004
565 Edge,
Allen, are you racing this year?
Well I will there and we will be in the 8.50 Brackets this year. :eek:
Willis :rolleyes: Willis I have been trying to get hold of you. Even called school- Now my problem is I don't remember why! Dave Aggressor

[Jetboatguru]

Originally posted by Cas
ya see Chet, I'm really not one that cares how fast my boat goes, I don't really care how fast yours is or HB's for that matter. You put up the offer so it's you that needs to produce. HB has already put up numbers about his engine and what his boat does.
You're blowing smoke, you have yet to prove didley squat. You make BS statements and don't back them up.
again, put up or shut up!
How much more laid back can you get than this?:D

[jweeks123]

Originally posted by Ken F
Yes, there is a DEFINATE difference in the angles on an agressor. Much more agressive pardon the pun. That's really why they pump more water than Berk.
ken, would you site the pump reference material where you found this info, [i.e. that adding more to the front of the blade at a differnet angle makes it pump more water]. it's hard to find this kind of info. like to know where you got it.
jw

[pops1]

Originally posted by Jake W
Have you guys ever heard of blade indexing(sp)well Duane showed us a blade indexer he uses to clean up imp.First he put it on a Berkeley imp and the blades were way off from one another some to the point of qurter inch.But the Aggressor was right on.
I am not trying to be like I love Aggressor but some things are shown to you in person well it makes you think mabey its worth a nother look.(stock vs stock)
Also please leave this as a Aggressor verses Berkeley thing not a HTP vs MPD.
Jake:D This is not a Berkeley /Aggressor thing it is about our design vs all others. If any person takes a look at the two Impellers frontal to frontal its a done deal. Vane Draft/Attack is clear, Large fillet radius are gone, Volumn capacity is far greater,Larger facial inlet Diameter
You cannot charge detail grind the impeller! What are you going to remove to increase its flow rate 0. The alloy has been changed to withstand the additional load demand 17-4 Heat Treated to a controlled spec. Same with our Mag. Bronze it has a higher number then most others Stainless Steel programs.
We have produced a unpleasent looking appearance on our Impellers in the past, Our alloy selection on each impeller was criticle, as each must withstand its level of HP demand. I am sorry aesthetics over function was the basis for evualuation in that case. You cannot due what we are doing on the foundry side without major problems. We have a heavy shrould base flowing into a very thin Vane on a high degree angle such as ours. Thick to Thin is not a good pour condition in any foundry. We compound it by going to higher alloys which contain Mag. & such to off set the strength loss in structual design by its vanes, the volumn flow capacity, and its Attack rate are so much higher. I am very aware of our past look yet I defend the fact it worked even then. Proof is the Racers ran it back then as today and set the records and won. The Big Joke is not on me but the ones buying fake Bronze Impellers thinking they are getting the same high end Alloy as we are producing from the same source's.
As I told you before we have a great team here at Aggressor, there is over 400 years of foundrymanship (If such word) about the same in pump design & mfg. from 3" pumps, to pumps you can walk thru the vanes standing up.
We were involved in in the resent re-do of Hover Dam, also most all pumps along the Colorado River. The parent foundry has produced the housing and Impellers for the largest selling pump in the world "Little Giant" which is used to drain most every pool out there among other things.
The Impeller Design concept we proceeded with has now been in development in some form 15+ years. Bob Cunningham (Midnight Oil ) ran it in a form and set records back then in N.J.B.A.
We never intended to produce a complete drive, only increase our sales. When we were rejected in a meeting with the powers in pump sales and told our impeller was no good (by one of the self proclaimed Jet Guru's). We held a meeting of which it became very clear we would be required to develope a complete pump, and develope our own market. We did not stop here we formed a group both in the pump "know how" and in its application market. Bob Cunningham, Ross Wilder, Tom Papp, Bob Leach, Harry Christenson and others. #2 our bowl design was necessary as our impeller increases the bowl pressure on all others bowls tested. The pressure increase further indicated a higher flow was necessary. In the Pump industry, it is a known law that vane's "should not" be a multiple of the Impeller vane's. (A on going question in another link here). So 2X4 Impeller Vanes = 8
if not 8 what then we picked 9 as the base. The bowl was a team effort in development and its internal design has proved to have great water control, straight exit water, increased MPH & E.T. Cut.
I have seen the Bowl correct a bad porpose condition on one race boat when a lot of other people tried to correct it by other means. Our performance suction came out 4 years after our bowl and Impeller and after the insert drive. We took note on the suctions being ran with the innerds converted over to Aggressor.
Most all were berkeley's at the races. What came out of this learning was our set up demanded more inlet water& far more structual integrety must be added to the suction. The Hand Hole must be increased to allow for those that want a Pop Off Valve, rather then bore out the undersize existing unit which takes away structual from the pump. The addition of cast water outlets was criticle to add structual to the suction and a very beefed up Bearing Cap Area. "All were weak points"
We allowed Aggressor to be tied up 1 1/2 years to a Giant Boat Mfg. in the industry while we developed a special pump to meet there projected needs for the upcomming years. This agreement was done on a hand shake 5-6 years ago with the president of that company. Upon our complete demonstration of the our working pump in several of there boats, both here and in Florida
both companys were ready to go. In comes the second largest motor and out drive conmpany to stop it in its track. That company owned 17% of the Parent Corps stock, the President was let go. A Second set of berkeley tooling had been aquired
by Larry Smith of Scareb back when berkeley was going to close out that pump (developed for the 4.3 and smaller motors) The first set went to Legend. Larry had tried to play with this pump with rotary and smaller motors. As Wellcraft had aquired Scarab in a buyout, and with Volvo's need for a pump to replace our program, Larry sold the tooling to Volvo. The program lasted less then one year and was scrapped and written off. That pump was the Volvo JPX Pump. We wish it had lasted as we developed a Impeller which much improved this pump and our price vs Volvo would have been OK by us. The Pump I am talking about is our JR Drive which we developed out of pocket as we wanted to retain the rights to it. Some History! Dave

[1tricky1]

That is some of the most interesting stuff I've read on here lately!
Thanks Dave!

[Ken F]

Well JW, I've seen the difference in person. ..
I've had Duane show me the difference in the two side by side.....
And now you have it from the horses mouth. (see above post- I hope that didn't come out sounding smart-assed...I didnt intend it that way)
As far as a book, you got me on that one.
I would like to second the thanks Dave for taking the time to fill us all in on a little history! Facinating, and thanks for sharing.
Ken F

[LVjetboy]

Just caught up w/this thread...
Interesting history by Dave...not easy to follow, but interesting. Would love to read more from both Aggressor and other pump mfgs. ATM? Berkeley? Legend? Where are they on this important matter?
On Impeller blade (NOT vane or vein) pitch. The steeper Aggressor pitch no doubt the reason their blade leading edges extend to the edge of the shroud compared to a Berkeley impeller which falls short. Not merely an extended blade at the same pitch as HBjet proposed. More pitch means more aggressive or more bite.
So is more pitch or bite always good?
Does more pitch or aggressiveness automatically produce more flow and thrust? Not necessarily.
These ideas floating around the forum from post to post. I think the connection is pump efficiency curves (which no jet pump mfg seems to know or supply) impeller cut size and rpm. A function of power. Those factors most likely the basis of, "aggressive pitch is all good" claims. But the technical performance information (accurate flow measurements not material stress analysis) is lacking. Sure you don't want your impeller to self-destruct. But even more, you want performance.
Think of pitch and how it relates to prop performance. Does more prop pitch automatically guarantee more prop boat performance? Nope. Why not?
On "I've heard an Aggressor B is the same as a Berkeley A" Well, that was stated long ago (about a year or more) by Dave and incorporated in JPC pump curves. Also somewhat verified by real test data. From what I've seen I think it's true. So no wonder you heard it.
jer