turning boat over tomorrow

[tahitijet]

I will be flipping my boat over tomorrow to remove the hook and paint the bottom. my question is when i flip it over to do this work does it matter how I support the boat? meaning can i set it on a cart that supports the boat by the stringers? or should it support it by the edge of the top? or both? I was just wondering if it might end up sagging or twisting if not supported correctly and all that work would be for nothing.
thanks

[MANIC MECHANIC]

I set mine on sawhorses under the stringers.
Tim

[tahitijet]

Update. I got the boat flipped over and started mapping the bottom. As i expected it would be the bottom is worse off then i originally thought. at any rate my main concern is the area directly ahead and the width of the intake. it seems to gradually role into the intake over a distance of a foot or more. If i set a straight edge off the transom forward the front of the intake (and the area approx 1' forward) are a good 1/4" lower then the transom and the other end of the straight edge.
sould I leave this roll in that area to give a smooth transition into the intake? or is this a sign the intake is set to low?
thanks in advance for any input

[moneysucker]

You may need to post Pix to show a little better. It is hard to answer without seeing.
Cy

[tahitijet]

i'll try to get a better picture tomorrow.
after getting over the intial shock yesterday of how wavy the bottom was I'm now thinking this area is the one part of the boat that is ok it's a smooth even transition into the front of the intake but i'm thiking thats the way the boat was built to help ramp water in as the front of the intake is flush with the bottom of the boat and nothing looks outta shape in that area.
I'm not sure though which is why i asked maybee old rigger or one of the guys that know these boats could offer some input on this area of the design.
I'll put a staight edge on it tomorrow in the day light and post a new pic then.
thanks for your help
steve

[tahitijet]

here is the picture

[Hotcrusader76]

c

[82SleekCraft]

cool

[tahitijet]

here is a decent picture of what i'm talking about. you'll notice it's a real even curve into the intake and intake sits flush with the bottom. does this look right?
thanks

[tahitijet]

this picture shows a better view of the front of the intake you can see it's flush with the botom.
also how far should i carry the blueprint forward? i have it mapped out to 6' now should I got 8'? or more?

[tahitijet]

anyone have any input?
thanks

[AZKC]

I'm just chimin in. Looking at the straight edge shot I would think you have some work to do.

[MudPumper]

I don't know too much about it but from what I've read I don't think that is very good. There are others here that have the knowlege you need.

[tahitijet]

ya I was hopeing to hear from the guys that know Jack at MPD, Jeff bennet, Todd, old rigger... maybee i should put this under a differn't topic
I was thinking the same thing at first that this boat probably wouldn't be worth fixing at this point, but you'll notice the intake is flush wit the hull front and back. and the original gel is under the paint so i know it hadn't been modified. just not sure if this is a major belmish or something normal.
thakns agian guys.

[MudPumper]

I'm suprised more people have not posted on this yet.

[ROZ]

Originally posted by AZKC
I'm just chimin in. Looking at the straight edge shot I would think you have some work to do.
Or he needs a new straight edge... ;) :D
Looks like you have some work ahead of ya Tahiti...

[AZKC]

Or a more curved straight edge then it would look fine. :D
I see a lot of fiberglass in your future:cool:

[tahitijet]

I think I like the curved straight edge idea better.
the part i see that may be a problem is if i fill this area (keep in mind it's only the width of the intake) level. It will cause the intake to be much higher (when right side up) then the bottom of the hull. am I going to have to break the intake loose and restet it? I would not be looking forward to that at this point.
thanks
steve

[Jake W]

Hear is some ideas.
Take out the intake and have it machined for a shoe and ride plate.
When you reset it it will be reset with the keel line across the front of the intake and to the end of the shoe.After this is done you will have to grind down the very back of the keel for the ride plate to extend out to the bowl cradel.This is where I think your problem is .
You are fixing the hook right (do it at least two strakes up and about 4 feet down the hull)
Now I hope some one will read this and give you info why or why not this will work for you.
Jake:D

[American Turbine Man]

I need better pictures but, from what I can see it looks like a botched repair job. It looks as if the first strake from the keel has been filled-in about halfway down the intake. That makes a huge hook. Does it run at the bow eye?
ATM

[HotRod Sprint]

Originally posted by tahitijet
Update. I got the boat flipped over and started mapping the bottom. As i expected it would be the bottom is worse off then i originally thought. at any rate my main concern is the area directly ahead and the width of the intake. it seems to gradually role into the intake over a distance of a foot or more. If i set a straight edge off the transom forward the front of the intake (and the area approx 1' forward) are a good 1/4" lower then the transom and the other end of the straight edge.
sould I leave this roll in that area to give a smooth transition into the intake? or is this a sign the intake is set to low?
thanks in advance for any input
Hey Tahitijet, I remember a thread a while back talking about this area just in front of the intake, and something about that slight roll actually feeding the pump better. They used an analogy of tap water running down a butter knife, and also a spoon, the water follows the roll of the spoon. I would suggest you call Duane at HTP, and talk to him about it before starting any work.
Rod

[tahitijet]

Jake W.. thanks for the input. You ha da tahiti correct? can you give me some input and the shoe, rideplae, as well as a droop on these boats? I seem to get mixed reactions on if they work or ont on tahiti's
American Turbine Man I ran out and snaped a few pics and there attached.. I do not belive it is a reapir at all the strakes just end like that. let me know what you think.
Hotrodsprint. Thanks i will call duane. I was thinking the same thing you said at one point but dismissed it as possible wishful thinking.
as you can see in the last picture from the front back right on the center line the boat has a rather steep point.. the further back it goes the more it flattens and drops towards the intake. I was thinking this was to ramp water into the intake and flatten out the bottom where the boat would ride at speed.
anyway enjoy the pics..
thanks agian for everyone's help. I hope to resolive this asap were off to forbiden fantasy this upcoming weekend and then i'm off for 9 days and want to get this done.

[tahitijet]

another

[tahitijet]

view from bow back

[tahitijet]

from intake foward

[HBjet]

TJ, I'm no bottom expert, but here are some photo's of my intake after the bottom work was done. With my hull, Jeff Bennet didn't need to work on the area just infront of the intake. About 6-8 inches further forward, there was some hook that he removed, but not much work was needed in that area other then that.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20bottom001-med.jpg
Here is a little better view
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20bottom002.jpg
Here is a photo before the work. In the photo you can see the dip infront of the intake, but for what your asking, you can use this to see how the ramp into the intake should look. I'm guessing since that area wasn't worked on by Jeff.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20bottom003.jpg
Hope that helps
HBjet

[Jake W]

Tahitijet I had a 77 bubbledeck Tahiti I think in the Tahiti adds it was called the 19 Super Tiger Bubble deck I will go back and look.the boat measured 18 feet 3 inchs.
My intake was set further back than yours and my center strakes stoped about 2 foot if front of the intake.
But mine did have some symptoms that the back of your keel has.In my case they set the intake at 4 deg and had to grind off the back of the keel to get the ride plate to extend out.
It was set up with a flat shoe.
I tried a Aggressor Short droop and it did not get the boat out of the water enough.So I went with a Aggressor long droop (or regular Berk.Ametican T ect style droop) with a 3 degree down wedge.I did not mess with the set up much so I can not give you any settings.
The boat ran 68.6 (hook included)with a stock compreson 460 Ford with a comp cam and MSd ignition single TR and headers at 4700 rpm and had a A Aggressor imp.I had a fuel delevery problem so I could not make it run over 4700(went to a diffrent manafold now).I could hop the boat out of the water to about the diverter(enough to unload the pump) with two stomps of the gas pedal.
I do not care wht people say about Tahitis mine was a very stright tracking boat that had no problems if you let off the gas at 69 mph it would shut down stright as an arrow never had a spin out problem or gave me any kind of greef.
I think if I would have taken out the hook fixed the fuel problem,turned down the imp a size and did some set up changes it would have been runing in the 73-5 mph range.Not to bad for a stock comprsion very heavy layed up boat.
If you plan on keeping that boat go ahead and set back the intake and have it machined for a shoe and ride plate and fix the hook you will be glad you did.
In mine I replaced every pice of wood in it and put full length stringers too .
Jake:D

[Jet Hydro]

Jake, I think I know what your problem was! 460 Ford ;)

[Jake W]

Hea hea hea.You know my 1976 Ford is still going strong with out a rebuild if that tells you any thing.
Jake:D

[tahitijet]

HB Jet. thanks for the info. How do i get in touch with jeff bennet?
Jake, my hull id tag says my boat is a 18 st (whic i assume is super tiger) however the rear of the deck looks like the 19' super tiger bubble showen on roostwear.com, so i'm not real sure. I know it's a 78 so maybee they changed the model a bit.
I have already replaced the transom with new wood and glass as well as new stringers (swapped to full lenght) I am taking out the hook.
my only concern is just in that intake area.. I'm not sure if it is something built into the boat to help it out ? or a major design flaw. It's obvious that it has always been that way.
I'm not to high on the idea of pulling the intake at this point. but just so i know, How hard would it be to get out upside down? and what would be the full purpose? to grind the rear area down and reset the intake with the rear lower? how much grinding can the rear area take?
can a shoe and ride plate be installed witout removing the intake?
Like i said i would rather not pull the intake at this time and I'm definatly not up to set back the pump at all. but I also want the bottom to be rigth whatever it takes.
anyone else have any input? or a phone number where i can reach jeff bennet or todd after 5pm cali time?

[Jake W]

Tahitijet with a ride plate and shoe it will line up with the keel down the center(like HBjets pics show) so your problem the very back of the keel would be ground off as far as grinding it flat so the rideplate extends out there was plenty of glass on mine that is the thickes part of the boat(glass wise).
The intake will have to be taken out to get it machined for the shoe and ride plate.
If your boat is the Supper Tiger then it is a Southwind coppie.Can you post a pic of the deck?
Jake:)

[tahitijet]

I will try to get a pic of the deck.
what advanteges will i see from a shoe and ride plate?
any ideas for getting the intake out now with the boat upside down?
thanks
steve
P.s what price range is this going to run?

[MudPumper]

Originally posted by tahitijet
I will try to get a pic of the deck.
what advanteges will i see from a shoe and ride plate?
any ideas for getting the intake out now with the boat upside down?
thanks
steve
P.s what price range is this going to run?
How much power do you run or are planning to run? What kind of speed have you seen or want to see?????

[HBjet]

Here is Jeff Bennett's number
(714) 934-1756 (days)
HBjet

[tahitijet]

the motor going in was posted on the boards not to long ago it's a 700hp 548 chevy. No past speeds as i bought the boat with rotted transom and stringers it's been a full rebuild project.
thanks
steve

[MudPumper]

With that kind of power I would think you definintely need the shoe and rideplate and while you are at it you might as well take out the hook. Do it right the first time, I say. Good luck.:D

[Jeff Bennett]

Steve,
While there are many ways to approach this task, I believe that if you are going to all the trouble of blueprinting the hull, you should do it correctly one time. My method is certainly not the easiest, but I think you will gain the most performance if you follow these steps. Anyway, if I were doing the bottom of your boat, here is how I would approach it.
1) Flip the boat right side up and remove the intake and have in machined for a shoe/ ride plate as Jake W suggested.
2) Cut the intake hole such that you can move the intake rearward so that at least 1 inch of the hull remains forward of the transom. Pre-fit the intake prior to sending out. Make sure there is plenty of glass at the transom, because you will be grinding that section flat after you re-install the intake. You will need to glass in the three or so inches in front of the intake since it will be moved aft by the same amount.
3) Flip the boat upside down and straighten the bottom over at least 5 or 6 feet forward of the transom. Rough the bottom in, but do not finish it.
4) Flip the boat right side up and install the machined intake.
5) Flip the boat upside down again and grind the hull flat behind the intake to accommodate the ride plate.
6) Blend the intake leading edge with the hull.
7) Finish the hull blueprint.
At this point you may be sorry you asked for my advice, but with the amount of hook on the keel, I think this is the best way to deal with it.
Best wishes and good luck.
Jeff

[HBjet]

Originally posted by Jeff Bennett
5) Flip the boat upside down again and grind the hull flat behind the intake to accommodate the ride plate.
Jeff, glad to see you here!
Steve, here is a photo of my hull and how Jeff did step #5 Hope it helps!
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/20bottomintake.jpg
HBjet

[Jake W]

Jeff do you have any sugestions on an 18 gullwing.Mine is a Preformance Jetboat made by Earl Smith.It looks like some one has done so bottom work on it in the past it has been filled quite abit around the intake area out to the center strakes making it a very smooth curved transition there is no hook I have set back the intake with the instructions from Jack..
thanks Jake:)

[Jeff Bennett]

Jake,
Earl Smith did a great job with the gullwing. It is one of the best performance jet boats ever made and it does not need any magic to make it run well. Just make sure that the hull is straight and the keel blends smoothly into the intake. Based on what you have said, you are done.
Best wishes,
Jeff

[tahitijet]

Well loaded with advice and information from Jack at MPD, duane at htp and jeff bennett. I have pulled the intake and will be setting it back and installing a shoe and ride plate. I started removing old paint and gel today and will begin the very long proccess of glassing tomorrow. I'm not sure what went wrong with this boat or where but i'm deep into fixing it now.
I'm going to blueprint the bottom up 5' and almost the full 5' and the full width needs work. I will post updated pictures as i can take them.
I would like to thank all of you that have posted advice and also thanks duane, jack and jeff, all of which took a considerable amount of time to talk to me about this.
thanks agian everyone.

[tahitijet]

attached is a picture after the 3rd round of glassing. the left side is getting close, right side still needs some work. I also cut the opening for the set back.. i went 2" back which leaves 1" before the transom.
i was reading around the rjb board last night and there were alot of post's regarding southwind (which is what my bottom is splashed from) and it was mentioned over and over to extend the 2 strakes closest to the intake out to the transom.
Is this something i should consider? if so whats the best route to go about it? Just build it up with glass? or cut a wood or foam filler and glass over it?
thanks