Here Comes The Union Spin (Now That The Strike Is Over The BS Starts)

[MagicMtnDan]

Grocery workers ratify labor contract
California walkout is longest known grocery strike in U.S. history
The Associated Press
Updated: 11:48 p.m. ET Feb. 29, 2004
LOS ANGELES - Southern California grocery workers voted overwhelmingly to approve a new contract with supermarket operators, ending a strike that inconvenienced millions of customers and cost three major grocery chains hundreds of millions of dollars in lost sales.
After a two-day vote, 86 percent of grocery workers who cast ballots approved the contract negotiated by the United Food and Commercial Workers union, the union said Sunday in a statement.
The contract covers 70,000 workers, a majority of them employed by Albertsons Inc., Kroger Co. — which operates Ralphs stores — and Safeway Inc., which operates Vons and Pavilions. It requires employees to pay for health benefits for the first time and includes two one-time bonuses for hours already worked. The contract offers no raises.
Union leaders said they wanted to protect affordable health care, pensions and job security.
“These three goals were accomplished in the new agreement, indicating the workers’ struggle and sacrifice were worthwhile,” the statement read.
Calls to supermarket officials were not immediately returned.
Many employees who said they voted to ratify the contract said they were eager to return to their jobs. Some said the offer was not much different from one they received from their employers in October — one that was rejected by the union.
Sunny Kim, 32 a service manager at Ralphs, said she was disappointed with the final results, even though she hadnÂ’t seen the contract.
“Why did we go on strike? I lost a lot of money for nothing. I think the guys were misled,” Kim said.
Still, she said she felt “wonderful” about the opportunity to go back to work.
Union leaders ordered a strike against Vons and Pavilions chains on Oct. 11. Albertsons and Ralphs then locked out their employees. In all, about 59,000 workers were idled. Others continued working at other markets by special agreement while the contract was negotiated.
The 4½-month dispute gained national attention because it was seen as a referendum on affordable employee health care. Presidential candidates Sens. John Kerry and John Edwards were among those who rallied behind the grocery workers.
ItÂ’s expected to take several days for the grocery clerks to return to their jobs, said Barbara Maynard, a United Food and Commercial Workers spokeswoman.
“It simply takes time to schedule everyone,” she said. “Some people may or may not go back.”
It was unknown whether replacement workers would be immediately released.
After months of intermittent negotiations, the companies and the union agreed upon the terms of the contract during a 16-day stretch of talks that culminated on Thursday. Both sides had been deadlocked over the cost and scope of health benefits and a two-tier wage and benefit system sought by the companies.
Letecia Sartain, 36, a Ralphs cashier, said she was relieved the strike was over and said the contract looked “pretty good.” She said she expects to answer a lot of questions from customers about the strike in the coming weeks. “It’s going to be kind of weird going back after almost five months of being out,” she added.

[CMABadseed]

they must have gotten hungry....i'd like to see the contract offers (the ones rejected) and then the one accepted. could be interesting.:confused:

[Rexone]

I heard an anyalst on the radio yesterday that said the average grocery worker probably lost 10k in wages. I think the health care costs are 2 years down the road before they change so that saves em maybe 3K over those 2 years. Strike pay at a few hundred a week (if they picketed), another 2-4K maybe.
I'm thinkin the union did these guys no favors. If it were me I'd be workin somewhere else about last November and told the union to go pound sand. All this while the union leaders continue to collect their multi 6 figure salaries. The union hosed these workers big time IMO.

[Kilrtoy]

IM A BIG UNION GUY,
BUT this time I have to say they got ****ED
It was a big mistake and anyone who was half way sober could see that ....
I feel sorry for all the people that believe there would be a big pot of GOLD at the end of this rainbow

[Havasu Hangin']

Man...you guys must not read what I write.
This labor dispute was a line in the sand for future contracts (in other markets).
Both sides lost more than they would have gained- easily...but it was not about these people or these stores.

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Rexone
The union hosed these workers big time IMO.
That's likely very true on the line in the sand.
But that means little to the 80000 or whatever people who just lost 5 mo of income due to the union which many of are now likely in financial ruin, with high credit balances, lost homes and cars. My statement still stands. They got hosed regardless of the reason or the future bigger picture. Many of these people wanted to go back to work months ago but "trusted" their union was acting in their best interest instead of just going and finding other work.
The difference is the workers lost money they couldn't afford to lose due to the union (although the smart ones went and found other work). The stores lost money they could absorb because they had the cash and other store income to weather it.
(and you're right I don't read most these threads) ;)

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Rexone
That's likely very true on the line in the sand.
My point is that the union was hosing it's "sacraficial lamb" members in this market from the beginning.
This is not new news.
PS- I hate being right all the time.

[AzDon]

Isn't it possible that a majority of the striking workers probably looked for other work with comparable wages after maybe a month without wages? It seems to me that if they'd been able to find better paying jobs, there would be no union workers left to return to work.
For you rich guys that REALLY hate unions, here's an idea for the next time one of these nasty strikes occurs..... Hire away all the strikers at a dollar an hour more and make them renounce their membership..... It's all about the money, Right? The union would be finished without members! Then to be really mean, you could lay these folks off shortly after they have been permanently replaced and shortly before their healthcare benefits begin, 15 days before Christmas!

[MagicMtnDan]

Don, you know the question, "do you see the glass half-full or half-empty?"
In your case you're so negative you don't even think there's a glass! :D

[You Te]

I hired a couple of strriking uinon workers to see how they worked, I had to let them go.
You Te

[framer1]

AZDon, You are one strange dude:rolleyes:

[Jungle Boy]

Hardcore union people are the last guys I'd ever hire. They come with a chip on their shoulder and an agenda to **** the big bad employer. I've only had experience with unionized workers but it was for 6 long years. They were rig workers in Greece and they were the laziest bunch ****-offs that walked the planet that I've ever had to deal with. They all knew that they only had to perform as well as the laziest dog****er on the crew. Unions can kiss my hairy ass. Their time has come and gone. :mad:

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by You Te
I hired a couple of strriking uinon workers to see how they worked, I had to let them go.
I bought a couple union companies...they worked great, so I think I'll keep em.

[AzDon]

Well, if you hate unions and their workers, then my idea should sound good to you!
I live to make you guys think!

[Nubbs]

Originally posted by riodog
What's really sad is that most of the workers from Ralphs and Albertsons would have gone back to work almost immediately but the companies couldn't let them.
Of course they wanted to work. Who wouldn't want to work when you're overpaid and underworked.:mad:

[bigq]

Originally posted by AzDon
Isn't it possible that a majority of the striking workers probably looked for other work with comparable wages after maybe a month without wages? It seems to me that if they'd been able to find better paying jobs, there would be no union workers left to return to work.
For you rich guys that REALLY hate unions, here's an idea for the next time one of these nasty strikes occurs..... Hire away all the strikers at a dollar an hour more and make them renounce their membership..... It's all about the money, Right? The union would be finished without members! Then to be really mean, you could lay these folks off shortly after they have been permanently replaced and shortly before their healthcare benefits begin, 15 days before Christmas!
Good point here Don. If they could find work somewhere else they would , but they can't. It is the only thing they know and no place is going to pay them the wage they make for what they do. The emplyees need the union more then anything.:rolleyes:

[bigq]

Originally posted by Rexone
I heard an anyalst on the radio yesterday that said the average grocery worker probably lost 10k in wages. I think the health care costs are 2 years down the road before they change so that saves em maybe 3K over those 2 years. Strike pay at a few hundred a week (if they picketed), another 2-4K maybe.
I'm thinkin the union did these guys no favors. If it were me I'd be workin somewhere else about last November and told the union to go pound sand. All this while the union leaders continue to collect their multi 6 figure salaries. The union hosed these workers big time IMO.
At least they got there point across right?:rolleyes: :( :yuk:

[little rowe boat]

Some of you make it sound like the Supermarkets won.I personally don't think either side won,they both lost.The stores did not break the union and lost Billions of dollars and the strikers did not get what they were asking for.:confused:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
Some of you make it sound like the Supermarkets won.I personally don't think either side won,they both lost.The stores did not break the union and lost Billions of dollars and the strikers did not get what they were asking for.:confused:
That may be true, both lost big, but IMHO the supermarkets were in far better position to continue than the strikers. Their incentive to settle was to get the pickets out of there so they could resume "normal" operations.
I think the Union officials are criminals, but I have always thought that, so nothing new there. Unions=organized crime IMO. It is very telling the kind of money that the Union bosses get paid (president around 300K/yr plus perks and vehicle), and their paychecks weren't interrupted.
Regardless, time for everyone to get back to work, I just feel that the Union owes a big appology to the "rank and file" members for (almost) sending them to bankruptcy court.

[little rowe boat]

Both sides had to bend,neither are happy.I'll be sure to tell the pres. of my local ff. union that he's the head of an organized crime ring.That said I must be a criminal,watch your valuables next time I show up at your house on a 911 call.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
I think the Union officials are criminals, but I have always thought that, so nothing new there. Unions=organized crime IMO.
So all agents are "organized crime"?
The union is nothing more than an agent for whom they represent. They are given negotiating power, and are paid a fee for their services...just like agents, lawyers, etc.
If you don't like your agent- fire them (union employees do have voting power).
Wait...nevermind "lawyers"...
"Ignorance is bliss"....I always say.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
So all agents are "organized crime"?
The union is nothing more than an agent for whom they represent. They are given negotiating power, and are paid a fee for their services...just like agents, lawyers, etc.
If you don't like your agent- fire them (union employees do have voting power).
Wait...nevermind "lawyers"...
"Ignorance is bliss"....I always say.
True, true... that's the way it is supposed to be. Unfortunately it ain't the way it works...

[clownpuncher]

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
True, true... that's the way it is supposed to be. Unfortunately it ain't the way it works...
Seems to work fairly well for me, my co-workers AND the City for which I work.
Sounds kinda like it works pretty well for Little Rowe Boat and his "bosses" as well.
Making a blanket statement about ALL unions is just ignorant. Do you realize that most Fire Fighters are union? Organized crime? Gimme a ****in break. I was a union rep for in the FD for many years. I can gaurantee you that there was absolutley NO crime on the agenda during our negotiations. Period. Ask all the fire fighteres on this board who are union and who aren't. I betcha a case of Jaegermeister that the majority will be union members.
Imagine that. My Fire Fighter's union AND the city of Palm Springs seem to get along pretty damn good. Hmmm

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by riodog
While a bunch of you people are knocking the grocery workers as over-paid and underworked-you're entitled to your opinion however the greater majority don't have a clue as to what the jobs entail. You merely listen to Bill Handel or John and Ken and sound like a bunch of "parrots".
I think they have been overtaken by technology. And who the hell are those people you listed there, someone I should listen to? I don't parrot anyone BTW.
A store director make anywhere from 75K to 125K and considering the pressure thats unloaded upon his(her) shoulders- THAT AIN'T ENOUGH ! I know- I did it for years and you couldn't get me back in a store for 1 1/2 times that much.
Yeah, and I can make up to about $130K, not enough in my opinion for all the pressure, time away from home, travel, etc. Life is tough.
While I am basically anti-union, I try to form an educated opinion based upon facts and not a bunch of preconceived BS. Sure your gonna have lazy worthless workers in any field and I agree that I get frustrated when I try to have an intelligent conversation with someone that is so "pro-union" they almost sound like they're 'brain-washed', BUT I get just as frustrated when I hear someone that is so anti-union that they paint all union workers with the same brush.
My short comments may have lead you to believe that's the way I think, and yes broad brush comments are always inaccurate. I don't think they are all lazy losers, just people trying to make a living. I just think the Union sold them a bill of goods.
You people want to know about overpaid then go take a look at the Longshoremen's union,
One of my pet peaves... Overpaid, and with an attitude. I worked around them for a couple of years on a construction project in LA Harbor many years ago.
My point is things are not always what they seem and in this case it's not the individuals that pushed for this strike so don't hold anymore animosity for them than what they deserved. For their behavior (that word again) on the picket line they deserve to be held in contempt but not for something that the union leaders were responsible for.
The union is basically a political unit. They are a part of it. The union leaders are basically politicians. Politicians lie to the constituents, regularly (or spin, or bend truth) and also do their best to inflame passions. This is my beef with the leaders. They basically set these people up to take a fall. That is their legal right... but was it right and just how smart was it?
For what it's worth, you'll see some massive sales to try and woo customers back in the stores so take advantage of them. Go store to store and stock up with what you buy continually and save a few bucks(and help the store LOSE MONEY) and then go where ever.
RIODOG
I never changed where I shopped.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
So all agents are "organized crime"?
"Ignorance is bliss"....I always say.
You "hire" the union as an agent when you get a job, usually because if you didn't "hire" the union, you wouldn't get the job. Because they have the place locked up. WTF is democratic about that HH?
Is being blissfuly ignorant part of being in the rank and file? Most members of unions have NEVER been to a meeting before. They got into the union as stated in my prior statement. Last time I hired a Real Estate Agent, I hired them because I needed them and I decided they were the best for the job. Same story last time I hired an attorney. Also they didn't keep taking my money ad infinitum. Same story when I hired Construction Managers to act as my agent on projects... You cannot compare Unions to other agency agreements IMO.
Unions, fine agency agreement indeed...:rolleyes:

[little rowe boat]

You keep the union as your agent,because not all employers are on the up and up.Just like keeping an attorney on retainer.As a matter of fact my union does keep an attorney on retainer.The union I belong to is there for my benefit and protection,they represent us as a whole and individually when needed. I understand why some of you do not like unions,but to make blanket statements about ALL unions or bargaining units is wrong.It's the same as me saying all business owners are greedy and could careless about their employees,this may be true in some cases but to say ALL are would be an uninformed,ignorant statement.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by little rowe boat
You keep the union as your agent,because not all employers are on the up and up.Just like keeping an attorney on retainer.As a matter of fact my union does keep an attorney on retainer.The union I belong to is there for my benefit and protection,they represent us as a whole and individually when needed. I understand why some of you do not like unions,but to make blanket statements about ALL unions or bargaining units is wrong.It's the same as me saying all business owners are greedy and could careless about their employees,this may be true in some cases but to say ALL are would be an uninformed,ignorant statement.
I'll give you that one LRB. Blanket statements are not so good. But I do believe that in general, labor unions are crooked... just like I think government is generally a bad thing and corporations with bold and monopolistic agendas are vary bad.
You don't have to agree. You can think I am ignorant if you wish. I don't care what you think about me LRB. Your organization deals with politicians and supervisors that answer to them. That is a fairly unique dynamic in the world of labor relations. I don't see it applying to grocery workers, sorry.
I have seen enough in my life and experienced the Union mentality enough to call a spade a spade. I agree there is power there in collective bargaining, but how and to what end is it used? Who decided how it is used, the members... I never saw that happen. You voted on what was already agreed to.
Now If I had been given the choice, I would have dumped the union when I was a member. I had no choice other than to quit my job... and blanket statement or not, that is wrong. Just plain Anti-Democratic IMO.
But there is what I like to call the "EVIL TRIAD"
1. Government
2. Corporations
3. Labor Unions
I guess they all need to be kept in check...

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
You "hire" the union as an agent when you get a job, usually because if you didn't "hire" the union, you wouldn't get the job. Because they have the place locked up. WTF is democratic about that HH?
Nurse Beagle...you seem like an intellegent guy (sometimes). Please don't prove me wrong.
You can get hired without union membership- you just resign the union, and forfeit voting rights.
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Is being blissfuly ignorant part of being in the rank and file? Most members of unions have NEVER been to a meeting before. They got into the union as stated in my prior statement. .
Since you have voting power...you are part of a bigger entity (rank and file). If you call voting as a part of a bigger group "ignorant"...then I assume you are moving out of our democratic society...cuz lot o folks in the US don't vote, either.
Originally posted by Dr. Eagle
Last time I hired a Real Estate Agent, I hired them because I needed them and I decided they were the best for the job. Same story last time I hired an attorney. Also they didn't keep taking my money ad infinitum. Same story when I hired Construction Managers to act as my agent on projects... You cannot compare Unions to other agency agreements IMO.
Just like any "agent deal", you are seeking the representation and the benefits it provides. Just because it is pre-existing, doesn't change the agreement- it merely gives you an insight into what you can expect. However, future services are TBD.
You pay for the service...what you do with it is up to you.
IMHO, you can compare unions to other agencies, unless you are ignortant to reality, or throw blanket statements out there based on your limited personal knowedge.

[Kilrtoy]

Am I extremely rich or or ya'll just poor,
Im sorry $17 an hour is chicken feed.
These people dont make very much money. So why does everyone say they are over paid.....
P.S. Im poor

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by Kilrtoy
Am I extremely rich or or ya'll just poor,
Im sorry $17 an hour is chicken feed.
These people dont make very much money. So why does everyone say they are over paid.....
P.S. Im poor
I'm making $9.50/hour. Only 7 more years and the HH Tugboat will be all mine!

[little rowe boat]

You are right they all need to be kept in check.Government,coorporations and yes unions,it's checks and balances they all need each other.For the record I don't think anything about you,I don't know you,therefore I will not make any snap judgements about you other than you don't like unions.
I have seen plenty in my life,that made me realize I will always seek a union job.I worked for a non-union trucking co. and the owners were absolute tyrants and it was not until they heard the word union being spoken that they started to listen to us and treat us with a little common respect.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Nurse Beagle...you seem like an intellegent guy (sometimes). Please don't prove me wrong.
You can get hired without union membership- you just resign the union, and forfeit voting rights.
Since you have voting power...you are part of a bigger entity (rank and file). If you call voting as a part of a bigger group "ignorant"...then I assume you are moving out of our democratic society...cuz lot o folks in the US don't vote, either.
Just like any "agent deal", you are seeking the representation and the benefits it provides. Just because it is pre-existing, doesn't change the agreement- it merely gives you an insight into what you can expect. However, future services are TBD.
You pay for the service...what you do with it is up to you.
IMHO, you can compare unions to other agencies, unless you are ignortant to reality, or throw blanket statements out there based on your limited personal knowedge.
Ok HH I am ignorant to reality...
You can compare them to any other agent deal, whatever you say.
IMHO you are applying your limited knowledge to this subject and claiming to have a superior view. I beg to differ.

[73beast]

Originally posted by riodog
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kilrtoy
[B]Am I extremely rich or or ya'll just poor,
Im sorry $17 an hour is chicken feed.
I'm poor too kilrtoy. Will you adopt me?
Rio
Why would he want to adopt you? Your short,round and ugly,also all you want to do is sit around and drink other people's beer.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by 73beast
Why would he want to adopt you? Your short,round and ugly,also all you want to do is sit around and drink other people's beer.
Well, there is a statement that is not such a "blanket" one. Pretty specific in fact.

[lovemyultra]

Please compare apples to apples NOT ALL UNIONS ARE THE SAME also try to remember that alot of nonunion workers that are making a decent wage, is because of the unions efforts to keep wages fair ,at least in the case of the carpenters in Ca .None of us are getting rich just making a living above poverty level although not much more

[73beast]

I apolgize for that remark,i forgot your limlted to two beers a week.:) :) :)