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View Full Version : Iraq - WMD, Oil, Bush Vandetta?



Jungle Boy
03-03-2004, 03:08 AM
In light of yesterdays bomb attacks and the ongoing problems going on there, I am wondering what some of you Americans are thinking about this so-called war that's going on. I work with several "worldly" Americans (meaning that they have worked in the Middle East and many other places around the globe) and we were talking about this last night. The 3 guys I work with all say it was "oil" and had nothing to do with WMD or to help safe the down-trodden people of Iraq. I agree. As I have said before in other posts and will say again. You can not change these people, they are locked up in a mind set that is centuries old and the hate they carry is bred into them for generations. The waste of American lives there should be intorerable by American citizens. They are playing in a game that can't be won. These latest bombs are being done by Iraq people against Iraq people. They don't fight by the same rules as the western world and will never be defeated until those rules are lifted and many more American lives are lost. And after it's all done, the day after the troops leave, everything will return to the same old shit. I say, let them fools kill each other all they want, but control the oil leaving the country to help pay for the expense of going there in the first place. Flame me if you want, but until you seen these ****heads in the Middle East up close, you can not appreciate just how brain dead they are.

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
03-03-2004, 05:10 AM
they were going to originaly call this
O peration
I raqi
L iberation
until they realized that made it too obvious! what pisses me off is that now it's over and we have access to the oil why are gas prices spiking high as ever. I would have had no problems with what we did if I was paying a $1 a gallon for gas but the fact that I'm paying $1.50 a gallon and the government is spending billions on this 'humane effort' pisses me off:mad:
oh and you can bet those wells have been up and running for months. They just aren't sending it here. Maybe to our buddies in Isreal:rolleyes:
Can you hear the shears running???:eek:
Omega

Boatcop
03-03-2004, 05:36 AM
Does the following date mean anything to anyone:
September 11, 2001
Al Queda used Iraq as a training ground, with the blessings of the Saddam dictatorship. They are still over there carrying out most of the attacks against the coalition efforts, or training those who do.
If we knew there were no WMDs in Iraq and the Administration was giving us lip service to go in for the oil, then they also knew that they wouldn't find any when we got in there.
What then? Plant them to make it look good? If that were the case it would have been done already.
Even the darling of the left, Billary Klinton believed, via intelligence received, that there were WMDs there. Congress gave full blessing for us to go in there. The United Nations, through their resolutions and Saddam's refusal to comply with them, gave full blessing to take action.
If you actually believe the left wing garbage, and think those like Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarrandon, Michael Moore, and most importantly, the Jane Fonda loving, anti-American John F. Kerry, are right, then whatever Govt. you get when they are elected, you're stuck with.
If you think liberal policies work and are good for the Nation, just take a look at California. Anarchy reigns in San Francisco. Elected officials are ignoring the laws that they swore to uphold, and the state is going down the toilet in a hurry.
Be careful what you wish for.

HavasuDreamin'
03-03-2004, 05:45 AM
Well said BC.

Jungle Boy
03-03-2004, 06:28 AM
Just for arguement sake by being the devil's advocate and provoking some dialog on this subject. The training ground for several of the attackers on Sept 11 was a Florida flight training school. As far as the Al Queda freaks that are commiting these attacks against US troops in Iraq, they will always be there. They are deep underground and very loyal to their ****ed up cause. Ever seen the madness in a Middle Eastern's eyes. They're crazy and hatefull even when they are not argueing their price of milk in their corner stores. The problem is, keeping the Al Queda madmen from entering the US. It's pretty tough to flush them out in their own backyards.

MagicMtnDan
03-03-2004, 06:31 AM
Yeah Omega, it's all about oil. And so was:
* The bombing of Khobar Towers
* The bomding of the embassies in Africa
* The first attack on the World Trade Center Towers
* The bombing of the USS Cole
* Flying an airplane into the Pentagon
* Flying airplanes into the World Trade Center Towers
* Flying an airplane into a field in Pennsylvania
* 3,000 Americans dead because of terrorists
Yeah, it's all about the oil and I'll bet you want to negotiate with Usama bin Laden and Al Qaida too.
Maybe your buddies in Iran or Pakistan would like you to come over and live there.

Kachina26
03-03-2004, 06:42 AM
Thanks BC and MMD, the "let em kill each other" theory just doesn't hold water in the light of 9-11. It is century old thinking over there, but that thinking also includes killing all infidels, which if you aren't Musslim then that's you. I don't care if they say it's for MWD, OIL or just GP. It's a hell of a lot better than Clinton's 2 cruise missles and wake me in the morning approach to dealing with direct attacks on the US ie Cole.

beer hunter
03-03-2004, 06:59 AM
Originally posted by Boatcop
Does the following date mean anything to anyone:
September 11, 2001
Al Queda used Iraq as a training ground, with the blessings of the Saddam dictatorship. They are still over there carrying out most of the attacks against the coalition efforts, or training those who do.
If we knew there were no WMDs in Iraq and the Administration was giving us lip service to go in for the oil, then they also knew that they wouldn't find any when we got in there.
What then? Plant them to make it look good? If that were the case it would have been done already.
Even the darling of the left, Billary Klinton believed, via intelligence received, that there were WMDs there. Congress gave full blessing for us to go in there. The United Nations, through their resolutions and Saddam's refusal to comply with them, gave full blessing to take action.
If you actually believe the left wing garbage, and think those like Sean Penn, Tim Robbins, Susan Sarrandon, Michael Moore, and most importantly, the Jane Fonda loving, anti-American John F. Kerry, are right, then whatever Govt. you get when they are elected, you're stuck with.
If you think liberal policies work and are good for the Nation, just take a look at California. Anarchy reigns in San Francisco. Elected officials are ignoring the laws that they swore to uphold, and the state is going down the toilet in a hurry.
Be careful what you wish for.
Nice post BC :)

HyRider15
03-03-2004, 07:16 AM
The vast majority of the crude oil consumed by the United States does not originate in the Middle East. There is doccumented proof of Sadam using WMD on the Kurds prior to our being there. Don't let the leftist drivel from Hollywood and the Democratic party fool you.

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
03-03-2004, 07:41 AM
I love the way people mistake take the blinders off for being a liberal cock sucker. I am in no way a liberal activist. Look where I live. I consider myself to be ultra conservative.
Go ahead and play the 9-11 card. If terrorism was our first concern why haven't they found Osama? I guess it is not close enough to election time yet and that will be a huge card to play with the sheople in this country. Or better yet we don't have enough intelligence or military to track him down. yeah right!
HyRider15 yes Sadam did use chemical weapons against the kurds and iranian people and we knew about it and turned our heads because at the time we supported Sadam's efforts. Hell Rumy is the one that put Sadam in power. This is simply a war based on a business relationship gone bad. Father Bush started it and Jr. finished it. The only problem is that it is taxpayers money funding it. Once again I wouldn't have a problem if we were paying less at the pump.
Omega

coolchange
03-03-2004, 07:45 AM
Ya know, you go through life and you take your hits and you deal with it. Some hit you harder than others but you deal. Then one day you just grab one of those ****ers and you beat the shit out of them. Then since you're in the mood you grab that other ****er and pound thier ass too. Then you look around and say
"OH YA, WHO"S NEXT?" :mad:

Pesky Varmint
03-03-2004, 07:50 AM
In light of what that war cost, there is absolutely
no economic value to Iraqi oil to our country. It's such
a drop in the bucket, around 3% of the world production.
We will never recover the cost of that war, not even close.
(Wall Street will though) However the Iraqi people
are now benefitting from the oil revenue.
We will never leave Iraq, just like we've never left Japan
and Germany. Every country we've ever defeated, and continued
having bases in, has gone on to become very successful.
Iraq was once the finest example of economic achievement
in the middle east back in the 50's. They have what it takes. As far as Afghanistan, leaving Afghanistan the first time is exactly what the Afghan's didn't want us to do.
And now we've got a presence in the Middle East in Iraq
and Afghanistan. We are in their backyard.
Most of them have always hated us. That will never change.
It's important that we make them fear us too.
I'm quite happy with the world hating us. They always will
as long as we are a super power. Get over it. Relish it.
The only people that can object to this is left over hippies and
flower children.
Pesky Varmint

ROZ
03-03-2004, 07:59 AM
Omega
How can you expect to pay less at the pump when something like only 5% of the US importred crude comes from the middle east.... What percentage of the 5% is actually refined into gas? the savuing may only be .02....
The dollar cost of the war is hard to judge... The numbers cover all military costs from one given point until the end. The figure is not on top of what our routine training and operations cover. So how much over normal funding is the war costing? I don't think the bean counters would know where to start..

spectratoad
03-03-2004, 08:02 AM
Not much else to say in light of BC's & MMD's posts. I still can't believe that you liberal speaking people still have not seen the light.
It is ok for the US to be the biggest, baddest country on the planet and we finally have a Commander in Chief that is not pressured by the world attitude and has allowed the country to flex our economic & military muscles. We were attacked you stupid fockers!!
If we wanted the oil we didn't need to justify it we could just go take it. We could have any country we wanted if that was how the US operated. We don't
The Bush administration is basically working with already obtained intelligence from the Clinton Administration and newer intelligence obtaind after that.
Where was all the liberal verbal garbage when the Clinton Administration decided to go into Kosovo? I didn't here the "vast Right wing conspiracy" yelling about us going there for the coal reserves but we heard the liberals talking about all of the human atrocities that Milosovich had perpetrated.
We finally have a moral President that has brought honor back to the office and whose interns don't get hazardous duty pay and the dem's don't know how to handle that lack of scandal.
Now this so called Presidential race that Kerry is perpetrating is nothing but an anti-Bush campaign and he even came out yesterday and said that if President he WILL raise taxes. Gee Mr. Kerry, How about for once the Gov't cuts back its spending. (Yes that is both a Republican & Dem problem)
I think it is time for you liberal dems to shut the F%& up be Americans and hang on for the ride of your life because it will be a good one and will move this country into a much stronger position in the global environment.;)

bigq
03-03-2004, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
what pisses me off is that now it's over and we have access to the oil why are gas prices spiking high as ever. I would have had no problems with what we did if I was paying a $1 a gallon for gas but the fact that I'm paying $1.50 a gallon and the government is spending billions on this 'humane effort' pisses me off:mad:
You said it yourself so how can it be about oil. the US is not going to control the oil it is for Irag. Nothing add up as to why we would go over for oil, god this is old.
Everyone thought there was WMD's over there and I still think they were removed or we ay still find some and as far as Osama, it can't be very easy to find the one guy in such a big area, give them a chance. I am sure many thought we couldn't get Saddam either.:rolleyes:

bigq
03-03-2004, 08:10 AM
Originally posted by Pesky Varmint
In light of what that war cost, there is absolutely
no economic value to Iraqi oil to our country. It's such
a drop in the bucket, around 3% of the world production.
We will never recover the cost of that war, not even close.
(Wall Street will though) However the Iraqi people
are now benefitting from the oil revenue.
We will never leave Iraq, just like we've never left Japan
and Germany. Every country we've ever defeated, and continued
having bases in, has gone on to become very successful.
Iraq was once the finest example of economic achievement
in the middle east back in the 50's. They have what it takes. As far as Afghanistan, leaving Afghanistan the first time is exactly what the Afghan's didn't want us to do.
And now we've got a presence in the Middle East in Iraq
and Afghanistan. We are in their backyard.
Most of them have always hated us. That will never change.
It's important that we make them fear us too.
I'm quite happy with the world hating us. They always will
as long as we are a super power. Get over it. Relish it.
The only people that can object to this is left over hippies and
flower children.
Pesky Varmint
Nice post Pesky. I think a lot of the country feels bad that we are what other countries want to be. Someone is always trying to knock the top guy off the mountain, but we they get in trouble who is the first country they look to for help?

little rowe boat
03-03-2004, 08:19 AM
[QUOTE][i]Go ahead and play the 9-11 card. If terrorism was our first concern why haven't they found Osama? I guess it is not close enough to election time yet and that will be a huge card to play with the sheople in this country. Or better yet we don't have enough intelligence or military to track him down. yeah right!
Play the 911 card,it's not a f$#@ing card it's a reality,I would rather be on the offensive trying to keep them on their heels,than sitting back and waiting for another 911.We haven't found Ossama because the Pakistanis wont let us into there god forsaken country.

Scream
03-03-2004, 08:21 AM
If we do anything in this generation, we must endevour to never forget September 11, 2001 and what lessons it brought to us. Americans are better suited to learning from out mistakes because our type of government allows us to make mistakes. Thats how we've learned in the past and that's how we need to learn now.
We made huge mistakes during the 90's in our approach to "Nation Building". Not only did we project out arrogance with money, we proved to the world that we have no integrity when it came to finance or morals as it related to family values. From the leader of our country to show the world that it was ok to lie in public about being an idiot and an adulterer to the leaders of our corporate world to do the same, only with OUR money, gave fuel to these "new revolutionaries".
Islam is not the enemy to America. Islamic Extremist are. If we would have allowed Sadam to remain in power in Iraq, not only would they have continued to develope WMD's but he would have provided them the Al Queida, Hamas or any other Islamic Extremist group that promised to use them against the Israelis and Americans. Sadam was no friend to Islam, but he knew how to use them for this purpose. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" type of deal here.
Iraq must be an oasis in the region to keep the extremeist from taking total control of the Middle East. If Iraq falls to the same zealots that took control of Iran, then the Middle East will broil in a blood letting Jihad the likes of which have not been seen in centuries.
Make no mistake. Iraq is a hing pin in the region. Sadam had to go and I can say that unequivocally. I believe our current President to be a man of high integrity and deliberation. We spent 8 years avioding conflict with Bin Laden and Sadam and it cost countless lives. It's about time we took action and exacted our pound of flesh from these, the greatest of vermin.

Dave C
03-03-2004, 08:55 AM
Varmant's got an excellent point. Much rather be feared than "respected."
Besides you notice that the Iraqis are taking the brunt of the casualties now!!!
Our take of oil from Iraq before and after the war is the same. We didn't gain anything in terms of supply. Besides the price of a barrel of oil before the war was under $28, now its $35. If this was just about oil the price would have gone down.
Saying this is about just oil is an oversimplification of a more complex problem.
Besides our work is almost done. We just need to help clean up the mess we created and then we can enjoy our shiney brand new air force bases in Iraq. :D

Dribble
03-03-2004, 09:30 AM
I agree with Boatcop. Both Bill and Hillary Clinton agreed that Iraq was a major threat to stability in the Middle East. There are a list of reasons why we went there IMO as follows:
Husseins continued refusal to comply with the UN resolutions.
The fact that he would continue to invade neighboring countries if nobody stopped him.
The fact that he, in the recent past used chemical weapons on his own people (remember the Kurds). Therefore he must have had them.
The failure of his father's administration to remove him from power when he had the chance (based on keeping his promise to the coalition).
The assasination attempt on his father.
There has been no evidence uncovered that Iraq had anything to do with 9-11, however, an unstable Middle East is dangerous for America. Don't think that Libya, Syria and Iran haven't taken notice. We mean what we say. The time to change the face of the Middle East and bring stability to the region is now.

Jungle Boy
03-03-2004, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Dribble
The time to change the face of the Middle East and bring stability to thr region is now.
Good luck.

spectras only
03-03-2004, 10:10 AM
QUOTE]Originally posted by Jungle Boy
[B]Good luck. Ditto here ] :D . Hey JB , how come nobody is talking about stability in venezuela;) ? That might be a bigger problem yet. Castro and Chavez are best of buddies:mad:

HighRoller
03-03-2004, 10:18 AM
Nobody mentioned the BIGGEST reason that Osama hasn't been caught. Because all five times Bill clinton had a chance to bring the guy in with a single command, he declined. What do you expect from Liberals? They are pissed because Bush can't be cowed no matter how much they flame him. When he got elected they had a number of issues to try and use against him. Now he's taken those issues awaw from them by doing something about them in a proactive way. Bad economy? Tax cuts fixed that pretty quick. Terrorism? Hunt the bastards down. It's hard to plan when you're running. And make no mistake about it, Saddam had ties with Al-Quaeda and various other terrorist organizations. Hell, they found the guy who planned the Achille-Lauro hijacking shacked up in one of Saddam's palaces!!! Not to mention he let them use his country for shelter and training. WMD's? Let's review the facts. We were VERY close to finding concrete evidence before the U.N. pussed out again. Why do you think Saddam kicked the inspectors out several times? Gee, couldn't have been because they were getting warmer... Saddam had a month between when Bush proposed the invasion and when we actually went in. For some stupid reason we decided to wait around for a month while the impotent pussies in U.N. uniforms bumbled around in their land rovers. Do you think it's much of a stretch to imagine Saddam transporting his stash out of the country under the noses of the U.N? They even have"mysterious" instances where surveillance cameras in weapons warehouses were "shut off" or "malfunctioned" temporarily. Gee, what could they have been doing while they unplugged the U.N.'s cameras? But not to worry, none of this will sway the Bush haters. Remember, every time you hear one of these left wing idiots spouting their supposed wisdom about the war or the economy, it's for one reason and one reason only. They hate Bush. It's not a moral issue. And like someone else said, liberal leaders have done the same things to different countries and nobody in Hollyweird said a peep. Two things you can count on when dealing with a liberal.1.)They will never let the facts deter their ideology and 2.)It's okay when a Democrat does it.

Scream
03-03-2004, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by HighRoller
Two things you can count on when dealing with a liberal.1.)They will never let the facts deter their ideology and 2.)It's okay when a Democrat does it.
That's a good one!:cool:

HOSS
03-03-2004, 12:51 PM
Basically we are in Iraq because I thought Saddam was a dick!:mad:

JakeAisA
03-03-2004, 01:45 PM
Here's the deal...it is about 911 and it is about oil, somewhat.
911 proved that a couple of plane tickets, some box cutters and some fake visas could knock down two buildings and successfully murder 3,000 people in one day.
Now, if you were President, wouldn't you shit your pants--assuming you take seriously that it's your sole responsibility to protect the People and the Constitution of the United State? Furthermore, if this kind of attack could be pulled off without weapons and really without all that much planning, what is going to happen when real weapons are deployed with some real initiative and cunning?
You're a jackass if you think you wouldn't have crapped yourself and then decided that the only option was to take out every threat the United States there is. George Bush did just that. He has a list and he's dealing with America's enemies in the only fashion they understand--brute, overwhelming force.
Now, when it comes to oil--you're damn straight that plays a role. Those terrorists sponsor murderers with the money we pay them for thier oil. Plus, the entirety of the West is dependent on energy. Is anybody suggesting we let a bunch of savages dictate our future because they're camels just so happen to have been grazing atop rich oil feilds?
In world relations, there is no "law and order" enforced by any higher authority. We try to get along with each other as if we were in the wild west without law. You have to protect yourself and look out for your own shit...but when somebody ****s with you, you have take care of business yourself. The Terrorists ****ed with us and the Arab states and people support them. George Bush is dealing with them the only way we can--with overwhelming force.

BUSTI
03-03-2004, 05:19 PM
I am proud to be in the most hated group in the world....FREE CAPITALISTIC AMERICANS!
Thomas Jefferson said we are defined by those that hate us. We are defined by those reasons they hate us for. We are free and they don't want us to be!

BUSTI
03-03-2004, 05:27 PM
And lets get one thing straight.......the oil in the middle east is ours!
Ok those ignorant ****s were just lucky to be wandering over the oil for 1000s of years and not only did we discover it at our own expense! We developed the production facilities and the the technologioes at our expense that got the ****ing oil out of the ground!
Then those ignorant stone age stupid ****s nationalized the oil indusrty we created in the middle east and didn't even say thank you or attempt to compensate us for it!
When Japanese investors come to America and discover silver on the land holdings here do we kick them off the land at the point of a gun and say **** you the silver or minerals are the property of the US...hell no like civilized people we allow them to make their money on their investment just like a native born company with out fear of government confiscation.
**** the Arabs they are stealing the oil production we created and then have the balls to sell it back to us! Unbelievable!
THE OIL IS OURS AND THEY STOLE IT! With out America they would be wandering the ****ing desert still ****ing their sheep!

Jordy
03-03-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by BUSTI
With out America they would be wandering the ****ing desert still ****ing their sheep!
I think you're mistaken on that one. Camels and goats seem to be their specialty. :D

Dr. Eagle
03-03-2004, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
Just for arguement sake by being the devil's advocate and provoking some dialog on this subject. The training ground for several of the attackers on Sept 11 was a Florida flight training school. As far as the Al Queda freaks that are commiting these attacks against US troops in Iraq, they will always be there. They are deep underground and very loyal to their ****ed up cause. Ever seen the madness in a Middle Eastern's eyes. They're crazy and hatefull even when they are not argueing their price of milk in their corner stores. The problem is, keeping the Al Queda madmen from entering the US. It's pretty tough to flush them out in their own backyards.
The terrorists took flight training in Florida, true. But they took paramilitary training hosted by Al Queda in one of their facilities. I say pull out the troops, glaze it over and let it start from scratch in a few hundred years...
Talk about provoking dialog...:p

Dr. Eagle
03-03-2004, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by BUSTI
When Japanese investors come to America and discover silver on the land holdings here do we kick them off the land at the point of a gun and say **** you the silver or minerals are the property of the US...hell no
We made them buy overpriced Country Club memberships...;)

QuickJet
03-03-2004, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by coolchange
Ya know, you go through life and you take your hits and you deal with it. Some hit you harder than others but you deal. Then one day you just grab one of those ****ers and you beat the shit out of them. Then since you're in the mood you grab that other ****er and pound thier ass too. Then you look around and say
"OH YA, WHO"S NEXT?" :mad:
BC is dead on correct but coolchange summed it ALL up real quick. :D

Dr. Eagle
03-03-2004, 09:35 PM
Originally posted by QuickJet
BC is dead on correct but coolchange summed it ALL up real quick. :D
LOL, you're right that was a good summary.
:D

OGShocker
03-03-2004, 11:27 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
Good luck.
Oh yeah, thanks for the support eh'

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 03:39 AM
Originally posted by OGShocker
Oh yeah, thanks for the support eh'
I didn't mean to come off as non-supportive; I just don't think very positively when it come to the Middle East and their ****ed up ways. I still believe that they can not ever be changed. To anyone that does think these fools can be molded into something that resembles a civilized human being, needs to spend some time around them.

XTRM22
03-04-2004, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Pesky Varmint
In light of what that war cost, there is absolutely
no economic value to Iraqi oil to our country. It's such
a drop in the bucket, around 3% of the world production.
We will never recover the cost of that war, not even close.
(Wall Street will though) However the Iraqi people
are now benefitting from the oil revenue.
We will never leave Iraq, just like we've never left Japan
and Germany. Every country we've ever defeated, and continued
having bases in, has gone on to become very successful.
Iraq was once the finest example of economic achievement
in the middle east back in the 50's. They have what it takes. As far as Afghanistan, leaving Afghanistan the first time is exactly what the Afghan's didn't want us to do.
And now we've got a presence in the Middle East in Iraq
and Afghanistan. We are in their backyard.
Most of them have always hated us. That will never change.
It's important that we make them fear us too.
I'm quite happy with the world hating us. They always will
as long as we are a super power. Get over it. Relish it.
The only people that can object to this is left over hippies and
flower children.
Pesky Varmint
Well first off, ya gotta know Pesky feels strong about this, it's the first post I've seen from him in years!! Alot of you guys are a lot better educated on this subject then me, but while I understand Jungleboys position I gotta agree with BoatCop. We know that Saddam supportted terroists who attack or plot to attack America or our allies. Ending the regiem (sp) ends future support of those terrorist actions. I live in the desert and I leave rattlesnakes alone because they leave me alone, but when they come into my yard and they leave in a can. If however rattlesnakes plotted to come to house and do me harm :rolleyes: (yeah I know I'm reaching here) and I could stop it by going out into the desert and killing them I would. I also agree with CoolChange, our enemies don't need to like us, will never respect us, so we better be damn certain they fear us, for our own protection.
Chuck (hoping I'm not contradicting myself and looking like an idiot);) :D

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
03-04-2004, 06:22 AM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
I just don't think very positively when it come to the Middle East and their ****ed up ways. I still believe that they can not ever be changed. To anyone that does think these fools can be molded into something that resembles a civilized human being, needs to spend some time around them.
exactly!!! **** 'em should turn the whole desert into glass. damn sure would have been cheaper! I wonder how Washington plans to pay for this war......anyone???
I just hate that we spent all this money and lives for what??? Al Quida is still strong and well and even if they whip them down another group rises out of the ashes. It kinda reminds you of the gang wars. Why not focus on locking down our borders.:confused: No instead they propose a plan to diminish the borders to nothing more than overglorified sifter. WTF???:mad:
Omega

JakeAisA
03-04-2004, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
exactly!!! **** 'em should turn the whole desert into glass. damn sure would have been cheaper! I wonder how Washington plans to pay for this war......anyone???
I just hate that we spent all this money and lives for what??? Al Quida is still strong and well and even if they whip them down another group rises out of the ashes. It kinda reminds you of the gang wars. Why not focus on locking down our borders.:confused: No instead they propose a plan to diminish the borders to nothing more than overglorified sifter. WTF???:mad:
Omega
The Cold War cost a lot of money too, but wasn't it worth it? It wouldn't be that much if our government didn't waste so much money on so many other things the People could and ought to do for themselves...more efficiently.
When we took down the Soviet Union...people bitched about the costs. When we took down Saddam...people bitched about the costs. But when the War on Drugs fails miserably, causing massive inner city crime waves and shootings...nobody bitches about the costs...or the lives. When Welfare fails and ultimately causes the exact thing it was supposed to help relives--despair and dependance--nobody bitches about the costs...or the lives. When the government fools the people into thinking they're "paying" into a retirement "fund" in "Social Security" then offers them a negative return...nobody bitches about the costs...or the quality of life destroyed.
But when a dictator who supports terrorists and who has used WMD's and who has attempted to kill a President is taken out...people bitch about the cost and the lives! And don't think the assasination thing of Bush 41 is of no consequence. I wasn't alive during the Kennedy Assasination, but from what I understand, it was like witnessing 911--hysteria, pain, panic.
Why do we have a military if we aren't going to use them against enemies who try to destroy us?
Why does our government tax us if they're not going to spend it on protecting us?
It's like...Duh? That's what the government is SUPPOSED to do, right?

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 01:29 PM
Originally posted by JakeAisA
When we took down the Soviet Union...people bitched about the costs. When we took down Saddam...people bitched about the costs.
I don't remember the US "taking down" the Soviet Union!! They took them selves down due to a very poorly run economy and total economic breakdown. One bullet and a elite squad of troops could have taken out Saddam. And now that he's out, is it better there. Ya right. Those idiots over there are blaming the US for not protecting them against the bomb attacks the other day. Ragheads bombing ragheads and it's still your fault. Don't you get it;;;; They have more toes, than IQ.

Schiada76
03-04-2004, 02:56 PM
If it was all about oil or revenge or hegemony.
Then answer one simple ****ing question.
If Saddam had no wmd's why didn't he prove it and keep his country??????????????????????????:mad: :mad: :mad:
If it wasn't for the Israelis taking out his reactor in the 80's he would have nuked someone already. :mad: :mad:

Dr. Eagle
03-04-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by RiverDave
People saying things like "Their not civilized people, we should just Nuke the whole place.." That's ****ing civilized?? WTF kinda since does that make?
RD
Just in case you need a clarification RD... that whole comment was tongue in cheek...
We'd never do it, and I hope and pray we never pop one off in anger again.
One has to be careful taking this place (hot boat forum) too seriously...:D

MagicMtnDan
03-04-2004, 03:13 PM
Here's another instance where I must agree with RD :eek:
He said, "You know I'm not the sharpest guy in the world."
:D :D :D

JakeAisA
03-04-2004, 03:33 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
I don't remember the US "taking down" the Soviet Union!! They took them selves down due to a very poorly run economy and total economic breakdown. One bullet and a elite squad of troops could have taken out Saddam. And now that he's out, is it better there. Ya right. Those idiots over there are blaming the US for not protecting them against the bomb attacks the other day. Ragheads bombing ragheads and it's still your fault. Don't you get it;;;; They have more toes, than IQ.
We sure did take down the Soviet Union. Communists, since they cannot produce, must rely on confiscation and imperialism to survive. The United States was solely responsible for stopping the spread of Communism around the world. We fought Communists in Korea, we fought them in Vietnam, we supported regimes that were under pressure and attack from the Soviet Union and it's Communist cohorts.
The end came when Ronald Reagan finally named them for what they were--an Evil Empire--and took steps to up the pressure against them--namely with misile deployments and the threat of implimenting SDI that would shield us from the Soviets Nuclear arsenal. These manuerverings basically threatened to make the Soviet Union's entire nuclear and conventional arsenal impotent.
Without the Cold War, and Ronald Reagan's final death blow, the Soviet Union would have consumed nation after nation to fuel thier existence.

JakeAisA
03-04-2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by BradP
If it was all about oil or revenge or hegemony.
Then answer one simple ****ing question.
If Saddam had no wmd's why didn't he prove it and keep his country??????????????????????????:mad: :mad: :mad:
If it wasn't for the Israelis taking out his reactor in the 80's he would have nuked someone already. :mad: :mad:
Dude...Reason and Logic have no place on these boards!!!
Good points.

Dr. Eagle
03-04-2004, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
I don't remember the US "taking down" the Soviet Union!! They took them selves down due to a very poorly run economy and total economic breakdown. One bullet and a elite squad of troops could have taken out Saddam. And now that he's out, is it better there. Ya right. Those idiots over there are blaming the US for not protecting them against the bomb attacks the other day. Ragheads bombing ragheads and it's still your fault. Don't you get it;;;; They have more toes, than IQ.
I guess you can look at it however you want, sort of a matter of semantics.
Fact is we "out prospered" them. We out produced them. We continued with new weapons systems that they could not compete with and in the long run, their economy could not sustain the load.
It did collapse under its own weight and inefficiency, but had we not been doing what we were doing... that wouldn't have happened.

Schiada76
03-04-2004, 04:42 PM
Originally posted by JakeAisA
Dude...Reason and Logic have no place on these boards!!!
Good points.
HEY!! Who the hell are you calling logical gawddamnit I oughta well oh never mind.:D :D :D

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by JakeAisA
We sure did take down the Soviet Union. Communists, since they cannot produce, must rely on confiscation and imperialism to survive. The United States was solely responsible for stopping the spread of Communism around the world. We fought Communists in Korea, we fought them in Vietnam, we supported regimes that were under pressure and attack from the Soviet Union and it's Communist cohorts.
The end came when Ronald Reagan finally named them for what they were--an Evil Empire--and took steps to up the pressure against them--namely with misile deployments and the threat of implimenting SDI that would shield us from the Soviets Nuclear arsenal. These manuerverings basically threatened to make the Soviet Union's entire nuclear and conventional arsenal impotent.
Without the Cold War, and Ronald Reagan's final death blow, the Soviet Union would have consumed nation after nation to fuel thier existence.
Give me a break. Don't pat your self on the back too quickly. And this is not in anyway to be mistaken as a slight on any of the guys that fought in both Viet Nam or Korea. Those guys fought in a time when communism was thought to be the most evil thing on the planet, but North Korea and North Viet Nam and still run by communist dictatorships.
The Soviet Union brought it self down. And to tell you the truth, they were better off then than they are now. They are still in very rough shape and there is civil wars going on in pretty much all the Baltic countries now. These people that put their religions and hate in front of politics will never amount to anything. They need to be ruled by a strong arm. It's the only way they know. You need to remember that they are not living in the same "era" that we North Americian are. They are many generations behind. The parents teach the kids to hate the guys next door, because they have a different ethnic background, and it's a cycle that will not change just because they "elect" a leader. Because he's from a different ethnic background than some of the others, they will fight him every step of the way just on principal. Travel around a bit and see some of people in action. They need to be directed every inch. That's why Americans, Canadians, Brits and unfortunately the French are supplying 90% of the supervision of oil fields and high industry around the world. It's because they wouldn't operate with out them.:rolleyes:

MagicMtnDan
03-04-2004, 05:09 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
Give me a break. Don't pat your self on the back too quickly. ..The Soviet Union brought it self down. :rolleyes:
So you're saying that President Reagan and our country had nothing to do with the collapse of the USSR?! If so I think you've been in the jungle too long. Either that or you've been in Canada too long :eek:

Schiada76
03-04-2004, 05:11 PM
UUHhhh,
Anyone that really thinks the Soviet Union would have just "fallen apart all on it's own" is an idiot plain and simple. They might have fallen apart "all on their own" eventually (just like the Roman Empire after thousands of years) but not until dominating all of Europe, Africa, the middle East, the Far East and yes the Western Hemisphere if the US wasn't here to stop them. Stop and imagine just for a second if you can no USA in the last century.................now imagine this century with no USA. What's your mental image conjour up? Not a pretty picture if you're honest.
If not us who?
If not now when?
This is the most powerful and MAGNANIMOUS country that has ever existed. Name ONE ****ING country in the history of man with the power and control that the US has at it's fingertips and yet it's not used. Just imagine for a second Stalin, Hitler, Pol Pot, Castro, Ghengis Khan, the Romans, anyone with the power of the US. Yet it's not abused.:D
Before you spout off, removing and unstable megalomaniac from the center of the entire globes power source is not an abuse of power.

HighRoller
03-04-2004, 05:11 PM
The Soviet Union brought it self down
That's like saying the person who loses in monopoly"ran out of money". We WON the cold war, it didn't just"end". We "Won" the arms race. We did things better,faster and with higher technology than they did and ended up making them spend most of their money on military programs. So I don't mind giving credit to the US for ending the cold war and stopping the MAIN communist threats. But specifically you can thank Ronald Reagan. He brought the Russians to their knees and knocked down the Iron Curtain too. Maybe now we should deal with those piss-ants in North Korea. If they want nuclear technology so badly, we should deliver some of ours to them-AIR MAIL!!!

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 05:28 PM
Well, I've definately been in the Jungle too long this time. I know that the economics of the USA played a BIG part allso, but make no mistake about the poverty then and now of the USSR and now the Baltics. They were heading to a crash landing pretty much on their own, but world economic conditions pushed them over the cliff alot faster. They couldn't buy nothing that was produced outside of their country with their money. US currency was the standard and they had no cash to buy it with. Then you pay your people that are working on your Russion rigs with matches and plastic pails (no shit either), the something is wrong then and it is still wrong. People live in 400 bbl tanks that are tipped over and hole cut in them for doors. This is in Sibieria. Life in Russia is still very, very harsh.
You Americans and we Canadians have things very good and should be even happier that we were swinging around in a North American nut sack 9 months before we were born. Billions of people that their only misfortune was, was being born in ****ed up countries, would love to have the opportunities that we take to granted every day.
Look around tomorrow at the sights and scenery that you drive past every day and think about how much we take for granted on a daily basis. **** me, I'm getting all teary eyed now; Not. It's just that I see these little kids every day here with no clothes that fit, no shoes, no good food, no clean water and mostly, no hope. They may scrouge up enough money from selling a pig or enough chickens to buy a beat up old bike that we would throw in the trash.
BradP - You are very up on this, I can tell. :D :eek:

Blown 472
03-04-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
Well, I've definately been in the Jungle too long this time. I know that the economics of the USA played a BIG part allso, but make no mistake about the poverty then and now of the USSR and now the Baltics. They were heading to a crash landing pretty much on their own, but world economic conditions pushed them over the cliff alot faster. They couldn't buy nothing that was produced outside of their country with their money. US currency was the standard and they had no cash to buy it with. Then you pay your people that are working on your Russion rigs with matches and plastic pails (no shit either), the something is wrong then and it is still wrong. People live in 400 bbl tanks that are tipped over and hole cut in them for doors. This is in Sibieria. Life in Russia is still very, very harsh.
You Americans and we Canadians have things very good and should be even happier that we were swinging around in North American a nut sack 9 months before we were born. Billions of people that their only misfortune was, was being born in ****ed up countries, would love to have the opportunities that we take to granted every day.
Look around tomorrow at the sights and scenery that you drive past every day and think about how much we take for granted on a daily basis. **** me, I'm getting all teary eyed now; Not. It's just that I see these little kids every day here with no clothes that fit, no shoes, no good food, no clean water and mostly, no hope. They may scrouge up enough money from selling a pig or enough chickens to buy a beat up old bike that we would throw in the trash.
Dude, you are missing the whole point, why would we seek the truth when we can park our asses in front of the tv and have our opionions formed for us without having to think and then question everyones patiotic bullshit when you question what the gubment is doing, ****ing land of pathtic ****ing dipshit pansy ass****s that cant think for themselves go watch cnn and have them tell you how to think you mindless ****.

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 05:43 PM
Once again I agree with you.:D :D :D Well put.

HighRoller
03-04-2004, 05:44 PM
I empathize with the little kids that get born into that situation, BUT....You can't lay the blame at our feet. Their parents made the decision to have a kid(yes, having children takes a decision and some effort)even though thery were in that situation. The world hunger problem is not a lack of food, it's becausse people live where they can't grow or buy food. Every year we give more food to hungry people, and every year the number of hungry people continues to grow. We should send them rubbers and gift certificates for U-Haul!!!Seriously, if we totally cut off the supply of food to starving people they might get motivated to find food somewhere else!!! And the United States/Canada didn't just turn into nice places by magic. The citizens are responsible for the conditions in their home, neighborhood, city and country. I won't ever feel guilty for having a nicer place to live than Abdul Shizamm Bin Hakken Hookie Van Damme Johnson because I contribute to what makes the country great.

Dribble
03-04-2004, 05:47 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
The Soviet Union brought it self down. And to tell you the truth, they were better off then than they are now.
Let's see. They have a free press. They don't get shot when they try to leave the country. They go to church, right in front of God and everybody. They have elections. And they have internet access so they can read this and weigh in.
Yeah they were alot better off then:rolleyes:

HighRoller
03-04-2004, 05:49 PM
I just got a PM from Boris Yeltsin asking for Ultra's phone number... Things can't be THAT bad!

Schiada76
03-04-2004, 06:34 PM
JB Hope I didn't bust your balls to hard.:D I've spent a lot of time in the the third world and the culture shock is devastating especially when you look at the kids. The question is how do we get them up to our level? Ain't nothing easy. Blown is right though people forget how sacrifice got the Western world to where it is. I have realtives that had camp tatoos. Talk about sacrafice.:confused:

Jungle Boy
03-04-2004, 06:59 PM
No offence taken on any of this. I just started this thread after a few of us had a conversation at work about Iraq and the possible threat vs benifits gained by going in. This has been alright. I sure don't want or intend to come off as anti-US (because I'm not), I just wanted to make some observations and see where it would all go. Bottom line is, Americans are very proud people and will take a stand for what they beleive is right. Really, it's no different than any where else in the world, even if some people are somewhat misguided by our standards. Everyone needs to be proud of something. :)

Schiada76
03-04-2004, 07:45 PM
We will also take a stand for YOU! Fill any any country on the above statement,:D

burbanite
03-05-2004, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Boatcop
Does the following date mean anything to anyone:
September 11, 2001
Al Queda used Iraq as a training ground,.....
......Be careful what you wish for.
Came in late here and only got this far before I had to jump in, I'll read the rest later but....for anyone who thinks that the US should never have gone please consider the alternative. Do nothing and forever put up with these religious zealots throwing hand grenades into your back yard.
Boatcop, correct, the reasons for being there are simple. They are the same reasons that have been around for a long time and it just required somebody to sack up and do it.

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by burbanite
Came in late here and only got this far before I had to jump in, I'll read the rest later but....for anyone who thinks that the US should never have gone please consider the alternative. Do nothing and forever put up with these religious zealots throwing hand grenades into your back yard.
Boatcop, correct, the reasons for being there are simple. They are the same reasons that have been around for a long time and it just required somebody to sack up and do it.
We also have a lot of religious zealots in this country trying to change things and take away our rights.

Blown 472
03-05-2004, 08:38 AM
Originally posted by totenhosen
We also have a lot of religious zealots in this country trying to change things and take away our rights.
Good point, and they are using money and influence to do it.

burbanite
03-05-2004, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by totenhosen
We also have a lot of religious zealots in this country trying to change things and take away our rights.
Very true....I hate them as well!

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 08:57 AM
Name a "right" that a religious zealot is trying to take away from you in this country.:rolleyes:

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by BradP
Name a "right" that a religious zealot is trying to take away from you in this country.:rolleyes:
Get a clue! :mad: Freedom of speech and right to bear arms just for starters.

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 09:07 AM
Name one "right" a religious zealot is trying to take from you in this country?
On the other hand the left wing cumguzzlers want my guns, my truck, my wife's suv, my boats, my fishing spots, all the money I make and they want me to wear a dress!:D :D

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by totenhosen
Get a clue! :mad: Freedom of speech and right to bear arms just for starters.
That's the ****ing left that's trying to take those rights away, wake up.:rolleyes:
Are you talking about the right wing religious zealots that don't want people talking on the radio about ****ing black hookers in the ass, or the left wing fanatics that won't let a conservative speaker on a college campus?
Perhaps you're also refering to that right wing religious organization that Barbra Boxer and Diane Feinstein are members of that want to take away your second amendment rights.:rolleyes:

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 10:06 AM
I'm talking about the same religious zealots that are pressuring/ influencing their opinion on the FCC, and companies like Clear Channel and Viacom of what should and shouldn't be on the radio. Can you tell me why? What is the definition of indecent/offensive? Shouldn't the courts decide this? Why now and not 10 years ago?

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 10:42 AM
It's not the religious zealots that forced Clear Channel to make their decision, it's not the FCC either, they made the decision on their own. They've decided enough is enough. Listen I've been in construction all my life and scatalogical, racist, rude and crude humor is part of my daily life but even I don't think it's ok to talk about , literally, ****ING BLACK HOOKERS IN THE ASS on the radio. I didn't watch the Super Bowl to see some washed up pigs udder exposed either. Then again get me to a strip club and I'll have a fine looking piece of ass in my lap the whole time. Everything has it's time and place.:D

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by BradP
It's not the religious zealots that forced Clear Channel to make their decision, it's not the FCC either, they made the decision on their own. They've decided enough is enough. Listen I've been in construction all my life and scatalogical, racist, rude and crude humor is part of my daily life but even I don't think it's ok to talk about , literally, ****ING BLACK HOOKERS IN THE ASS on the radio. I didn't watch the Super Bowl to see some washed up pigs udder exposed either. Then again get me to a strip club and I'll have a fine looking piece of ass in my lap the whole time. Everything has it's time and place.:D
What would you call imposing fines on a company for indecent material w/o a hearing on what indecent is? I don't want people making judgements like that for me.
The FCC has made it clear that any opposed to their actions that they will make it impossible to stay in business.
After the radio the next target might be the internet or perhaps other areas that you like to indulge in.

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 11:17 AM
Stern's been fined well over a million dollars in his illustrious career, hasn't hurt him at all. Besides you said RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS, that's not who's complaining. Address the left that truly is taking your rights away, your right to go fishing, boating, hunting, biking etc. I'll take my gun rights over tape of people ****ing in a church for a radio bit any day. BTW I'm an atheist but at least have enough common sense to admit that religion built this country as more than any other factor. :D

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by BradP
Stern's been fined well over a million dollars in his illustrious career, hasn't hurt him at all. Besides you said RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS, that's not who's complaining. Address the left that truly is taking your rights away, your right to go fishing, boating, hunting, biking etc. I'll take my gun rights over tape of people ****ing in a church for a radio bit any day. BTW I'm an atheist but at least have enough common sense to admit that religion built this country as more than any other factor. :D
Who is complaining than? Yes I think the leftist are a bunch of freaks as well. Sorry the church bit wasn't Stern.
Actually I think this country was built by a bunch of people that were tired of getting pushed around by the big guy. They told that guy to f-off and fight for what they beleived in. We've become lazy and lsot some of that fight until 9-11. People don't want to be told what to do and should not be treated as children (though some need it). Common sense should prevail.

burbanite
03-05-2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by BradP
Name a "right" that a religious zealot is trying to take away from you in this country.:rolleyes:
Some of those who wish to see the end of my 2nd Amendment rights include:
American Jewish Conference
Rabbi Eric H. Yoffie - Clergyman
American Jewish Committee
United Methodist Church
United States Catholic Conference
Joe Volk - Clergyman
World Spiritual Assembly
B`nai B`rith
Church of the Brethren
Congress of National Black Churches, Inc.
Episcopal Church-Washington Office
Interfaith Neighbors
Bishop Edmond Browning - Espiscopal Leader
Jewish Labor Committee
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
Mennonite Central Committee-Washington Office
National Council of the Churches of Christ in the USA
Paul Rabbi Menitaff - Clergyman
National Council of Jewish Women
Southern Christian Leadership Conference
Rabbi David Saperstein - Clergyman
U.S. Catholic Conference, Dept. of Social Development
The Christian Science Monitor
Union of American Hebrew Congregations
United Church of Christ, Office for Church in Society
World Spiritual Assembly, Inc.
..........

Schiada76
03-05-2004, 01:34 PM
OK then! Zealots the lot of them!
:D :D

JakeAisA
03-05-2004, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by Jungle Boy
Give me a break. Don't pat your self on the back too quickly. And this is not in anyway to be mistaken as a slight on any of the guys that fought in both Viet Nam or Korea. Those guys fought in a time when communism was thought to be the most evil thing on the planet, but North Korea and North Viet Nam and still run by communist dictatorships.
The Soviet Union brought it self down. And to tell you the truth, they were better off then than they are now. They are still in very rough shape and there is civil wars going on in pretty much all the Baltic countries now. These people that put their religions and hate in front of politics will never amount to anything. They need to be ruled by a strong arm. It's the only way they know. You need to remember that they are not living in the same "era" that we North Americian are. They are many generations behind. The parents teach the kids to hate the guys next door, because they have a different ethnic background, and it's a cycle that will not change just because they "elect" a leader. Because he's from a different ethnic background than some of the others, they will fight him every step of the way just on principal. Travel around a bit and see some of people in action. They need to be directed every inch. That's why Americans, Canadians, Brits and unfortunately the French are supplying 90% of the supervision of oil fields and high industry around the world. It's because they wouldn't operate with out them.:rolleyes:
And your point is?
Doesn't it hurt saying "...guys fought in a time when communism was thought to be the most evil thing on the planet"?
It hurts for me to read you saying it.

Back Forty
03-05-2004, 02:26 PM
I think it to be wrong to say that we take our way of living for granted. I for one hate to know that somebody outside of this country is suffering but the truth is that we live the way we do because of the past 200 or so years and how we have conducted ourselves. It has been no easy walk in the park but rather a history of constant effort based on religious values, morales and other inputs... I do not care what anybody else outside of this country thinks because in reallity what do they know about our hearts; what makes us tick. We live under our own results. Nobody dropped this country on us. The Constitution, industry, economy, our military and all things underneath are what makes our lives possible. Right or wrong and somewhere in between, we made America happen up to today. Why should we care about a civilization that has been around for a couple thousand years. They don't seem to have a problem with keeping themselves free of change and surrounded by death and disaster. As a majority, they have displayed their true nature. To say that we can't do anything about them is entirely wrong. Do to a president who lives under America and not above it, we are out in the world knocking some heads. Its a challenge that can be resolved but not by giving in to some bullshit like "they can't be changed."
People at a basic level are animals and will respond to pain when all else fails. Pity for a country because they don't have the "luxurys" that we have is flat out weak. We have "luxurys" because we made them possible. A direct result of our own actions as a country.
I don't feel bad for any country in turmoil. Sympathy..? none.
We set a direction over there. We can't pull up stakes and expect that the people themselves can handle it from here. They have had a couple of thousand years to become a people of stability and resolve. A long hard road and one that maybe only the US is capable of carrying out.
:rolleyes:
I consider myself nonreligious and void of any care about what a person thinks of my beliefs about the "God" subject. I do realize that this country is America because of religion mainly various forms of Christianity. To think that a growing trend consists of snuffing out the Christian religion from this country is an obvious **** up and will result in the demise of this country. That is what makes me look at these assholes that continually sweat what the world thinks of us and realize that they are one of the biggest dangers to our future. I've been to my share of third world countries and realize what it means to live in a country like ours. We EARNED IT because of how we live our lives and the moral strength we have held on to.
Nothings perfect. But we have certainly tried to do "it" right.

JakeAisA
03-05-2004, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by BradP
That's the ****ing left that's trying to take those rights away, wake up.:rolleyes:
Are you talking about the right wing religious zealots that don't want people talking on the radio about ****ing black hookers in the ass, or the left wing fanatics that won't let a conservative speaker on a college campus?
Perhaps you're also refering to that right wing religious organization that Barbra Boxer and Diane Feinstein are members of that want to take away your second amendment rights.:rolleyes:
Good points about Liberals. The FCC is ****ed up though. The airwaves should be privately owned and the FCC should be killed. That's freedom. You're dead on about Liberals censoring freedom of speech and every other right we started out with in 1776.

BUSTI
03-05-2004, 03:54 PM
Related to free speech most of you have it all wrong. You do not have the right to free speach in America!
You never have and you never will! What the Constitution says is that you have ...are you ready for this children....
YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY!
With that freedom also comes the risk that you may pay, a price if you speak ignorantly, or if you lie, or if you slander, or if you pollute the minds iof children rresposibly .......you might have to pay a price such as a lawsuit, a boycott and or a fine or you may get fired.
Or even worse you may be thought of as a ****ing ignorant moron like many of the leftists on this board or misguided youngins with no philososphy on these boards as well.
Look , we have the right to speak freely but when it becomes so offensive like Howard Stearn's subject matter is...then all of us right thinking people with a sense of standards and decency have the right o fine him, boycott him, or otherwise lobby every body we know to not listen to him or better yet not buy the products from his advertisers or EVEN BETTER YET TELL HIS SYNDICATOR THAT WE WILL NOT LISYEN TO ANY OF THEIR PROGRAMS UNTILL THEY FIRE HIM. THATS ARE FREEDOM TO DO SO.
And if Howard doesnt like tell to go screw himself but to bad thats the way most thinking Americans think. Only young low standard pieces of shit like that guy anyway....thats my right to speak freely.
Speech is not protected by the constitution, nor is it protected by idiots like Howard Im a pig Stearn..it is certainly not protected by the liberal press.
Niether is it protected by the ACLU.......
for you idiots , and you know who you are on this board...
IT IS PROTECTED BY AMERICAN SOLDIERS WITH THEIR GUNS THAT HAVE DIED FOR OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY. YES EVEN PIECES OF SHIT LIKE HOWARD STEARNS IS THE RECEIPIENT OF THIS FREEDOM BECAUSE SOME MAN OR WOMAN LOST THEIR LIFE PROTECTING OUR RIGHT TO SPEAK FREELY!
AND THEY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR OVER 200 YEARS.
So get a clue there isn't free speach in America...what we have is the right to speak freely and somebody died for that right. And they next time you exercise your right to speak freely remember you may pay a price for it because speech is never free you sons a bitches!

totenhosen
03-05-2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by BUSTI
Look , we have the right to speak freely but when it becomes so offensive like Howard Stearn's subject matter is...then all of us right thinking people with a sense of standards and decency have the right o fine him, boycott him, or otherwise lobby every body we know to not listen to him or better yet not buy the products from his advertisers or EVEN BETTER YET TELL HIS SYNDICATOR THAT WE WILL NOT LISYEN TO ANY OF THEIR PROGRAMS UNTILL THEY FIRE HIM. THATS ARE FREEDOM TO DO SO.
Again who decides what is indecent, offensive and what the standard is? government? an appointed official? You? Me?
Your standards may be much different than mine. Don't you think it should be outlined what the rules are so taht you know if you are breaking them.

Tinkerer
03-05-2004, 06:45 PM
TOTEN ---
So then by your way of thinking it is OK if we show nudity on a kiddie show - because they can just change the chanell.
Once the image is on the tv screen you can't take it out of the kids minds.
What you are saying is preatty dumb.
There is a time and a place for everything and family TV is NOT the place.
If I want to watch smut their are chanells for that.
I can chose not to watch.
What choice did I have during the SUPERBOWL.
The SUPERBOWL was not sapposed to have SMUT as part of the intertainment.

burbanite
03-05-2004, 06:52 PM
Originally posted by BradP
OK then! Zealots the lot of them!
:D :D
:D

HOSS
03-05-2004, 08:43 PM
GO FCC
fine every ****in` body
Especially that dumb black bitch for showin` her tit during halftime of my most celebrated sport (next to baseball and badmittin`) and thinkin` we were all dumb enough for lettin` her dictate what we would watch and find acceptable
I`m gonna fight for my right to beat down all the assholes for pushin` on me what they feel is right.
Enough is enough. I`ve now rolled up my sleeves. I`m just gonna have to beet morality into people. This is the land of the free and the home of the brave. NO ONE PERSON`s RIGHTS ARE GREATER THAN THE MASSES! So if`n you don`t see it my way,,,,then my masses might just colide with your face!:mad: