supercharger questions

[woodster]

i have a ultra 22 stealth and am looking to get more out of it. it has a 502/dominator setup. ive talked to the guy at ultra and he says the superchargers are hard to dial in especially idling and lower rpms. and he said that one would cut the motors life expectancy in half. if i were to get one what should i expect and are they worth the money? thanks
[ August 22, 2002, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: woodster ]

[DEL51]

That is a very generalized statement. It all depends on how the setup is designed,how much power you want, and how hard you drive your boat. if you use good parts and a mild amount of boost it should last many seasons.

[Hotcrusader76]

woodster:
i have a ultra 22 stealth and am looking to get more out of it. it has a 502/dominator setup. ive talked to the guy at ultra and he says the superchargers are hard to dial in especially idling and lower rpms. and he said that one would cut the motors life expectancy in half. if i were to get one what should i expect and are they worth the money? thanksand with a good adjustment, idling can be very respectable! It just takes the know-how.

[Liberator TJ1984]

A blower will actually cover up some tuning variances...poor response,stumbling, etc....read what several major dealers have out on their products before you decide on what you want..if you do decide to get one, go with a larger size..say 8 over 6:71 you won't have to spin the larger blower as fast to get the same boost ,thus keeping air charge cooler..or give Marv a call @ The Blower Shop 661-299-5483 and tell him your plans.. he has helped me a great deal in the past...B&M,Weiand,BDS...also have tech lines...good luck !

[RumRunner]

If you have a carburetor set up, and tuned properly you can make an engine with a blower on it idle just fine. It's a matter of using the proper parts, and your cam will play a big role in it. Contact Marv at The Blower Shop, he's a great guy, I work with him all the time on tuning to get the engines to idle, and run properly. www.theblowershop.com (http://www.theblowershop.com)
Doug

[woodster]

thanks for the replys guys. but im thinking more along the lines of a procharger or whipplecharger... not a full on blower motor.anybody have any experience on a jet setup with either? thanks

[502procharger]

no experiance with a procharger on a jet, but i have one on my 502/bravo1 and love it. i have not touched it since i got it dialed in. motor runs strong. i gained 12mph at 6lbs. good luck. feel free to e-mail me if you have any specif. questions

[woodster]

hey 502 how much did it cost u installed and was it fairly easy to dial in? and do u have a carb setup or fuel injected?

[502procharger]

i bought the kit used for 2500.00 with a carb and fuel system. i sold the carb and had nickerson build me one from a old holley 750 i had.($400) they did everything, all i did was bolt it on , it was great. i did the install myself. no big deal, you can do it in a weekend. i know that there are a few out there for sale used at reasonable prices. it all fits nice under my hatch and has done wonders for performance. it is itercooled so heat is not an issue. i only backed my timming down to 30 deg, and run 93. it has never missed a beat. let me tell you, i was out last weekend actualy trying to get it to fail, i am building a new(bigger)motor and wanted to see just what it could take. i ran 9lb of boost wot for 75sec and the thing just kept purring. if i can't blow one apart, or burn a motor up with one it is a fine product. i beat the living shit out of everything i have. let me know what you do, i will be more than happy to shoot the shit with you about any install problems you may have. i may even know where to get another used one at a good price.
brian

[Blown 472]

I run a big block ford with a 6:71 at three percent over in a jet boat at nine pounds of boost. The motor ran fine until I lost a rod bearing but that was do to loosing a cam lobe and half a lifter prior to putting the blower on, I knew the bottom end was questionable but I said screw it and put it together. As far as idle and every thing cam selection will affect that, you dont want to go below a 110 lobe sep. Just keep in mind that the blower will now make the carbs act like they are supposed to, ie carbs need vacuum to operate and will get a ton of it. I put a vacuum gauge on my blown car and was pulling 35 inches of vacuum with no load on the motor and no boost. Once you go blown you will wonder why you have not done it before and the beauty is you can tune hp up or down. eek!

[Hotcrusader76]

Blown 472:
I run a big block ford with a 6:71 at three percent over in a jet boat at nine pounds of boost. The motor ran fine until I lost a rod bearing but that was do to loosing a cam lobe and half a lifter prior to putting the blower on, I knew the bottom end was questionable but I said screw it and put it together. As far as idle and every thing cam selection will affect that, you dont want to go below a 110 lobe sep. Just keep in mind that the blower will now make the carbs act like they are supposed to, ie carbs need vacuum to operate and will get a ton of it. I put a vacuum gauge on my blown car and was pulling 35 inches of vacuum with no load on the motor and no boost. Once you go blown you will wonder why you have not done it before and the beauty is you can tune hp up or down. eek! This is why they need to be boost referenced (35hg at idle? Exactly). Considering most pwr valves are rated from 2.5 up to 12.5hg, you would need to reference these to the engines vacuum, not the vacuum coming being pulled from the blower. Just some FYI :D
Also considering that extra vacuum changes the way the carb performs, your signals are going to curve down. Meaning that your low end is going to be awesome but you will loose signal as the RPM's climb. Ensure that your carb builder installs the appropriate boosters to compliment that xtra cfm pulling through the main body.
Have fun!
-Ty

[Liberator TJ1984]

ty..what is the going price for boost referencing a pair of 1050's

[Hotcrusader76]

Liberator TJ1984:
ty..what is the going price for boost referencing a pair of 1050'sA pair of 1050's (4150 or 4500?) I am assuming you have nothing exotic so this 1050cfm should be a 4500 series.
Overhaul/Boost Referencing would be $325 each with color choices as a standard.

[Liberator TJ1984]

4500's , can you do metallic purple body with chrome or polished bowls ??

[Hotcrusader76]

Liberator TJ1984:
4500's , can you do metallic purple body with chrome or polished bowls ??I couldn't do that color choice. Chrome bowls are no problem, with acc.pumps, and can be the cheapest route. Polishing is possiable, but I farm that out, at cost. Al Reed does the polishing out of Anaheim and he does "awesome" work. I am actually having him polish my 4150 main bodies for my own boat, then we are anodizing over them for a translucent effect. Is that what your after? Its not cheap, but it turns heads! :D

[78Eliminator]

Blown 472:
I run a big block ford with a 6:71 at three percent over in a jet boat at nine pounds of boost. The motor ran fine until I lost a rod bearing but that was do to loosing a cam lobe and half a lifter prior to putting the blower on, I knew the bottom end was questionable but I said screw it and put it together.You mean, you can just kinda throw in the appropriate cam and a blower and see what happens? That's kinda nuts! I like it! Hmmm, I have a 468 and I want to get blown eventually too. I assume you fattened up your jets? One more question: What's up with your avatar? I like the tiny black line that's supposed to conceal her identity. Hahahaha.....

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotcrusader76:
Overhaul/Boost Referencing would be $325 each with color choices as a standard.
How much for just the drilling for the referencing? No overhaul no gaskets no precleaning just the basic?

[Hotcrusader76]

gnarley:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotcrusader76:
Overhaul/Boost Referencing would be $325 each with color choices as a standard.
How much for just the drilling for the referencing? No overhaul no gaskets no precleaning just the basic?Boost Reference Quote would be-$250.00 for both.

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotcrusader76:
Boost Reference Quote would be-$250.00 for both.
So that equates to 125 each carb or if you have a single as I do & small blower 125 for your single carb?

[Hotcrusader76]

gnarley:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Hotcrusader76:
Boost Reference Quote would be-$250.00 for both.
So that equates to 125 each carb or if you have a single as I do & small blower 125 for your single carb?They are actually $150 each with shipping included. But I'll give a price cut for two.

[Blown 472]

I did not boost refernce my carbs, once agian put them on and try it. I have a blown 440 in my dodge that was my mule prior to putting another blower on my boat. I dont run power valves in the boat either school was out on that could have gone either way and I choose not to, it works just fine for me, neither the car or the boat lays down, stubbles, leans out nothin. I did jet up 8 to 10 jet sizes and keep a real close eye on my plugs. I have not run the boat or car with a vacuum gauge on it to see what the vacuum is under full boost but I would guess it is out the range of a power valve. One more thing done get caught up in the 0 vacuum at wot, the blower is a pump and will continue to pull vacuum, throttle blade size? how big is too big, top fuel cars use three 3 or 4 inch dia blades and still pull vac. at wot. :D :D

[Blown 472]

One more thing and I am not saying it is going to happen but before any flaming about boost refrencing I have one thing to say, carter or edlebrock carbs......no power valve and work on blown motors. :rolleyes:

[78Eliminator]

Blown 472:
One more thing and I am not saying it is going to happen but before any flaming about boost refrencing I have one thing to say, carter or edlebrock carbs......no power valve and work on blown motors. :rolleyes: Shit dude, you make it sound so easy.....

[Blown 472]

It is not that difficult. My boat motor was set up to put a blower on, resized the rods, cross drill crank, rod bolts, forged pistons, main and head studs, iron heads. Nothing special. The beauty of a blower is when you are not under boost the blower is along for the ride. The biggest thing that kills blown motors is too much timming, and leaning the motor out otherwise not rocket science. :D

[78Eliminator]

Blown 472:
It is not that difficult. My boat motor was set up to put a blower on, resized the rods, cross drill crank, rod bolts, forged pistons, main and head studs, iron heads. Nothing special. The beauty of a blower is when you are not under boost the blower is along for the ride. The biggest thing that kills blown motors is too much timming, and leaning the motor out otherwise not rocket science. :D Well you didn't mention that the bottom end was engineered for a blower. I was wondering if I could just slap one on right now and see what breaks. I have a 468 BBC with dual 4150 750s all NA. If I could just slap a blower on and get 50-100 hours out of the bottom end, I would be happy. The motor is a fresh rebuild with only 30 hours on it......
The previous owner had nothing to offer about the internal components. He just said it had "an expensive steel crank". Maybe I'll just pull it apart this winter and rebuild it....

[Hotcrusader76]

As long as the boost doesn't creep high enough to detonate, you should be fine J.
I honestly think your motor can take it Justin! Go for it...run around 5psi on boost and you should run reliably clean for awhile....even throw on a SuperChiller and raise the boost a little more....

[Heatseeker]

I slapped a new BDS 8-71 on a 18 year old 330 hp 454. Topped it with a pair of 850's. Upgraded the fuel and ignition systems. I've got near a hundred hours of trouble free cruising so far.

[Blown 472]

I agree with ty, keep the boost at a lower level and the motor will live, all the stuff I did to the bottom end was basic rebuild stuff nothing exotic, hell I was thinking of trying a blower on a stock cast piston motor and keeping the boost down about 5 psi, I run 9 psi in my boat and 11 in my car which is right on the edge of wanting to lift the heads off the deck and needing o rings. The only reason I put head studs in my ford was the four bolts per cylinder, I use the old head bolts in my mopar. I talked to Kevin at Kuhls on and off for over a year before I put my blower on my car. You should call him if you have any questions 741 547-7071 not plugging just their shop but I have bought two blower set ups from them and have had great service. I think he said he used to build blown chebby's but I dont hold that agianst him :D wink Heatseeker, 100 hours?? what the hey? oh that is right you live where the water does not get hard. Just some more food for thought, I have a blown 440 standard bore, stock crank, stock rods w/mopar bolts, stock oil pump, iron heads home ported with stock valves, stock reworked dist with a mopar crome box, all this in a 3900 car, with 2:76 to 1 rear gear, 275-60 street tires and the car runs 115mph in the lights, the et sucks cuz it blows the tires off it. I drive it to the track which is 30 miles away, and I am pulling 10 inches of vacuum when I am crusing, and 11 psi when on the wood.
[ August 28, 2002, 11:14 AM: Message edited by: Blown 472 ]

[Hotcrusader76]

Blown472-
Hey not that I dis-like the chick Avatar or anything...but I have a hard time staying with this post because of the avatar is inappropriate for my work place, specially when everyone is veiwing it. I would love continue throwing the threads back and forth, but it might be limiting my time trying to read and understand the great ideas flowing on this website.
Could I offer a six-pack in exchange for another avatar.... :D
[ August 28, 2002, 11:26 AM: Message edited by: Hotcrusader76 ]

[78Eliminator]

Hotcrusader76:
Could I offer a six-pack in exchange for another avatar.... :D ty, in your options just uncheck the "view avatars" option. some people might enjoy his avatar :)

[Hotcrusader76]

78Eliminator:
Hotcrusader76:
Could I offer a six-pack in exchange for another avatar.... :D ty, in your options just uncheck the "view avatars" option. some people might enjoy his avatar :) Thanks Bro...will do...Sorry Blown472

[Blown 472]

440 six pack? I was going to suggest that but some one beat me to it. What do you all do/build there? wink

[Liberator TJ1984]

78 slap it on .....get an 8/71 @ 12 under=5-6# long life,, big power jump...go to Blowerdriveservice.com and they have a listing of the basic engine requirements....and may the force be with you ......

[78Eliminator]

Liberator TJ1984:
78 slap it on .....get an 8/71 @ 12 under=5-6# long life,, big power jump...go to Blowerdriveservice.com and they have a listing of the basic engine requirements....and may the force be with you ......What does the 1v 2v and 3v stand for in the parts listing? Is it in reference to the number of valves per cylinder?

[Jordy]

Justin, any idea what kind of compression or pistons you are running in that motor? I would say those would be the big limiting factors to run any kind of boost.

[78Eliminator]

jordanpaulk:
Justin, any idea what kind of compression or pistons you are running in that motor?It's 9.5:1 according to the PO, but I think he was guessing and not certain.....
All I know is that the best of starters have a chore kicking it over but that might have been due to all the surplus fuel the carbs were dumping down there. I hope through all this carburation mess I didn't damage any of my valves.....

[Blown 472]

The v is how many belts you have, like alt. powersteering etc. 9.5 is a little steep, you could get by with a little bit of boost or run alky. :D

[Liberator TJ1984]

78..if your comp.ratio is a little on the high side and you already have good pistons ...you can have the heads c.c.opened up some and run thicker head gaskets..a buddy just did this to go from 11 1/2 down to 9.5:1 to get away from race fuel costs. I am running 8 3/4:1 shouldn't take much to drop your comp. some...chris

[Whipple Charged]

Give Gary Teague a call at GT Performance, 909.982.8391. He can install any SC with the carb tuned properly, you won't believe the difference in the power! Roots blower setups on bigger motors are harder to tune, but ours are much simpler and if your motor is pretty much stock, you can make almost anything idle.
Thanks,
Dustin

[bkegan]

Call Craig @ BDS at (562) 693-4302 He'll get you set-up right. I have an 8-71 on my 355 ci dart sbc with 15 psi boost at 6500 rpm on avgas. I run (2) 950 cfm Holley 4150's with external power valve reference. (They're plumbed to the manifold below the blower) It Idles great and runs wot even better!
She makes 650 h.p. dyno hp and I love it.
Good luck on your project!

[Velocity City]

I own a 26' Velocity with a 454 mag carb, looking for more speed and power! Looking to get a 256 blower. Running 5 pounds of boost with a roller cam, rockers & lighting headers (approx. horse power 600). Is this a good setup? The boat runs about 67 mph now. What kind of speed would I be looking at with the blower setup like the one described? Do you have any other ideas on other setups, please let me know.
[ September 15, 2002, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Velocity City ]