Pump question..Need some input

[Jim B.]

I have a question regarding flowing the bowl on my jet pump. I have a 1976 18' eliminator bubbledeck w/ a Berkeley 12 jg pump. To give you guys some background, Roger of Roger's Custom Boats blueprinted the bottom, modified the pump angle, and fabricated a nice shoe and rideplate assembly for me. After looking at my setup, Jack at MPD, offered his insight and built me a loader. I also installed a droop. The motor is a 468 cu in, 10-71 blown, runnin' 8-9 pounds of boost(775-800hp). The only thing that hasn't been done to the pump is the bowl is completely stock, w/ the exception of the Aggressor bronze AB impeller. What's flowing the bowl good for as far as MPH? I know it depends on what type of boat, setup, etc. I know some of you here on the boards like HBJet(Randy) and others have experienced the before and after effects on performance modifications and such with their boats. If the increase is significant I will consider pulling the bowl. Keep in mind that my boat isn't a drag boat and according to Jack at MPD my boat has more power than he would ever consider putting in it due to it being a vee bottom and not a tunnel. So what I'm trying to say is that it would be pointless if I'm only going to pick up 1 or 2 MPH. Any input would be appreciated...THANKS!!
Jim

[superdave013]

Originally posted by Jim B.
Keep in mind that my boat isn't a drag boat and according to Jack at MPD my boat has more power than he would ever consider putting in it due to it being a vee bottom and not a tunnel.
Jim
I'm thinkin that Jack's a blower hater

[disco_charger]

If 775 hp is too much for a V, what's the cut off?:confused: Cyclone is up over that, and Jack did the pump....HB is close and Jack did the pump. Now I'm confused. Anyone have an explanation for this?

[Danhercules]

WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS!!!!!!
No one seems to know what bowl work dose. Seem like when everything is apart, the bowl gets done. There are always other mods to go with it. I am doin the same thing, MPD did my bowl a few weeks ago, but I changed impellors, motors, so I will not konw how much the bowl worked helped.
I say do it. It will answer a lot of questions. Looks like that is the last thing to do, so do it and then we will all know if we waisted out money on doing bowl work, :frown: or it it helps!!:D
I would like to see the results.

[Squirtcha?]

Originally posted by disco_charger
If 775 hp is too much for a V, what's the cut off?:confused: Cyclone is up over that, and Jack did the pump....HB is close and Jack did the pump. Now I'm confused. Anyone have an explanation for this?
I'm gonna steal this from another board and post.
I asked the same question and here's the response
I got. Sounds reasonable. This quote is from Duane
Oblander of HTP. It doesn't appear to be so much a
horsepower thing, but rather the speed that all those
ponies can make you run. Seems that after 90-100
mph things can get a little dicey.
Here was my question.
This may be a stupid question, but why is it so much more dangerous to run 100+ in a v type hull? Is it due to the fact that there is little to no boat in the water when achieving those kinds of speed with a v hull? I hear this all the time, and it almost seems like it'd be more dangerous in a tunnel due to a blowover being a much better possibility due to the air entrapment thing.
and the answer
A Vee-bottom, (or any other), boat is designed with lift built into the hull. The faster you go, the higher the boat raises out of the water. At 100 mph, there is barely any boat left running on the water. We were running almost all on just the ride plate. If your motor fails when the boat is in this condition, the boat doesn't have a straight flat surface to land on. If it comes down a little to one side, (which it will definitely do if it doesn't have center steering), it will pull to that side and can cause the boat to switch ends or flip over easily. A tunnel hull has the two outside sponsons to stabilize it. A Vee-Bottom boat does not have that advantage.

[BigBoyToys]

I have seen many V-Bottoms and Gull Wings dance from side to side at speeds from 100-110 mph. I would definitely not want to run one faster than that, and even at that, it can get hairy at times. I have even seen a few folks get thrown out of the boat due to the dancing even at slightly slower speeds. Basically, if you have enough HP to carry it, a tunnel is much more stable at a higher speed. But, I wouldn't take a V-Bottom higher than say, 90-95 mph. Not sure how fast yours goes, but with 800 hp on an Eliminator Bubbledeck, you may be in that range. If you are, then more pump work although may speed you up some, it also may make it more dangerous.
Just my .02

[HBjet]

Originally posted by disco_charger
If 775 hp is too much for a V, what's the cut off?:confused: Cyclone is up over that, and Jack did the pump....HB is close and Jack did the pump. Now I'm confused. Anyone have an explanation for this?
I'm thinking maybe the Elim Bubble Deck wasn't designed to run a lot of power, or at least run 100+. When I had the bottom work done, I talked to Bennett about my hull, and both him and Jack said 110 would be it's limit. Remember I'm only running 700+ hp, and I was in the lower/mid 90's. Someday when the 250 shot gets installed, I should be in the 105 range, and that will be enough to make me happy.... for a while anyways.
HBjet

[disco_charger]

I don't know... If this guy gets his bottom worked, is it ok then? I understand that with a jet boat, it's the whole package, but that's still an interesting statement. I'm in the minority here thinking yes, if you're running 90+ all the time, it's pop off time. But why the "No way, no how." I've known some pretty stout Elim Bubbles. They always seemed like really good boats.

[cyclone]

Originally posted by Jim B.
I have a question regarding flowing the bowl on my jet pump. I have a 1976 18' eliminator bubbledeck w/ a Berkeley 12 jg pump. To give you guys some background, Roger of Roger's Custom Boats blueprinted the bottom, modified the pump angle, and fabricated a nice shoe and rideplate assembly for me. After looking at my setup, Jack at MPD, offered his insight and built me a loader. I also installed a droop. The motor is a 468 cu in, 10-71 blown, runnin' 8-9 pounds of boost(775-800hp). The only thing that hasn't been done to the pump is the bowl is completely stock, w/ the exception of the Aggressor bronze AB impeller. What's flowing the bowl good for as far as MPH? I know it depends on what type of boat, setup, etc. I know some of you here on the boards like HBJet(Randy) and others have experienced the before and after effects on performance modifications and such with their boats. If the increase is significant I will consider pulling the bowl. Keep in mind that my boat isn't a drag boat and according to Jack at MPD my boat has more power than he would ever consider putting in it due to it being a vee bottom and not a tunnel. So what I'm trying to say is that it would be pointless if I'm only going to pick up 1 or 2 MPH. Any input would be appreciated...THANKS!!
Jim
i think that with all the power you are running, flowing the bowl for a minimal speed gain wouldnt be worth it. I think that it is worth it if you are running less power and are looking for every single bit of advantage that you can find, but with 800hp on tap that boat should already be a strong runner.

[cyclone]

Originally posted by disco_charger
If 775 hp is too much for a V, what's the cut off?:confused: Cyclone is up over that, and Jack did the pump....HB is close and Jack did the pump. Now I'm confused. Anyone have an explanation for this?
my bowl was flowed before i ever considered building the blower motor. i did it because it was apart at the time (last year) and i was looking for as much performance as i could muster from my single carb'd 502. Impossible to judge the benefits of the detail job on the bowl since i changed everything on the boat at the same time.

[sam t]

jim, out of curiousity how many rpm's do you spin that ab impeller.

[HBjet]

Originally posted by disco_charger
I don't know... If this guy gets his bottom worked, is it ok then? I understand that with a jet boat, it's the whole package, but that's still an interesting statement. I'm in the minority here thinking yes, if you're running 90+ all the time, it's pop off time. But why the "No way, no how." I've known some pretty stout Elim Bubbles. They always seemed like really good boats.
I'm not saying, get the bottom done and now you can haul ass. I'm talking about the hull, and how safe it is with a certain amount of power. I don't know the answer, but maybe Jack has seen enough Elim bubble decks with to much power get out of control. Because if you put that much HP in a 18 gullwing, which is still a v bottom, they are still stable 100-115mph. I think it's a hull design issue more then anything, but what do I know...
HBjet

[565edge]

Werent the bubble decks faster than the sprints?I thought your boat had the same bottom as the bubble deck?Maybe not.

[disco_charger]

Edge and I are on the same page. I think that the bottoms if not the same, are damn close. I'm not saying that it's the bottom work. I'm just wondering why the bubble can't do it, but a Rogers TR, Eliminator Liberty, etc can. I was just curious as to whether Jack specified why the Bubble is a bad choice for HP. Obviously a well set up tunnel will be faster, but I just can't think of the reason.

[Cs19]

Jim B, are you sure that you and Jack were on the same page as to how much power that motor of yours is really making?
I personallly think you guys are nuts if you want to go 110 in a v bottom.I would say 95- 100 is plenty fast.

[BigBoyToys]

Originally posted by cs19
Jim B, are you sure that you and Jack were on the same page as to how much power that motor of yours is really making?
I personallly think you guys are nuts if you want to go 110 in a v bottom.I would say 95- 100 is plenty fast.
I agree:)
As for
"Because if you put that much HP in a 18 gullwing, which is still a v bottom, they are still stable 100-115mph."
I would have to say yes, usually....But in a controlled Environment such as NJBA, IHBA etc where wakes are kept at a minimum for running.
Like I've said, I've seen more than my share of unstable V bottoms at that speed. How 'bout this...Last July 4th Weekend at CFW, saw a guy get pitched right in front of me in a CP Gullwing doing about 90 when the boat started dancing side to side out of control. Driver was pitched over the side.
A controlled environment is different than the lake/river.
Not trying to contradict or argue with anyone here. Just like for everyone to know the increased risks. "Go Fast SAFELY":D

[Jim B.]

Originally posted by cs19
Jim B, are you sure that you and Jack were on the same page as to how much power that motor of yours is really making?
I personallly think you guys are nuts if you want to go 110 in a v bottom.I would say 95- 100 is plenty fast.
Yeah, when I had talked to Jack I felt he was just being on the conservative side that's all. It had nothing to do with the fact that my elim bubble couldn't do that kind of speed. I think it was more of a safety thing. He just was stressing to me that above a certain speed vee bottoms become unstable and unsafe. That's why he said, in his opinion, for a lake boat, the power I have in it would be more than enough.

[TopCat]

JUST MY OPINION its just not safe if you hit a bad jetski type wake the boat can take a bad set and then you can go for a ride you really wont like

[HBjet]

Originally posted by 565edge
Werent the bubble decks faster than the sprints?I thought your boat had the same bottom as the bubble deck?Maybe not.
I don't have a sprint hull, it's a liberty.
Anyways, I don't know why Jack said what he said, maybe he thought the owner didn't have enough seat time in that boat to be going that fast.... I dont' know..
HBjet

[Jake W]

As far as bowl flowing goes.
1 it takes blunt edges away
2 it opens up the veins to flow more water
3 takes away casting flaws that could cause cavation
The main thing for a high HP boat would be number 2.More water = faster (with enough HP)
Jake:D

[American Turbine Man]

Originally posted by Jim B.
I have a question regarding flowing the bowl on my jet pump. I have a 1976 18' eliminator bubbledeck w/ a Berkeley 12 jg pump. To give you guys some background, Roger of Roger's Custom Boats blueprinted the bottom, modified the pump angle, and fabricated a nice shoe and rideplate assembly for me. After looking at my setup, Jack at MPD, offered his insight and built me a loader. I also installed a droop. The motor is a 468 cu in, 10-71 blown, runnin' 8-9 pounds of boost(775-800hp). The only thing that hasn't been done to the pump is the bowl is completely stock, w/ the exception of the Aggressor bronze AB impeller. What's flowing the bowl good for as far as MPH? I know it depends on what type of boat, setup, etc. I know some of you here on the boards like HBJet(Randy) and others have experienced the before and after effects on performance modifications and such with their boats. If the increase is significant I will consider pulling the bowl. Keep in mind that my boat isn't a drag boat and according to Jack at MPD my boat has more power than he would ever consider putting in it due to it being a vee bottom and not a tunnel. So what I'm trying to say is that it would be pointless if I'm only going to pick up 1 or 2 MPH. Any input would be appreciated...THANKS!!
Jim
A stock American Turbine bowl is almost always worth at least 3 mph over a berkeley bowl on a boat that is running 80 mph. We also have Extrude Hone bowls but, we don't recommend them unless you have well over 600 hp. If you are on the ragged edge of not having enough suction pressure a high flowing bowl can actually hurt performance.
ATM

[ChetCapoli]

Originally posted by American Turbine Man
A stock American Turbine bowl is almost always worth at least 3 mph over a berkeley bowl on a boat that is running 80 mphATM
That's pretty interesting, i didnt know that. Hey HB whadiathink about this bud??
CHET

[jweeks123]

Originally posted by American Turbine Man
A stock American Turbine bowl is almost always worth at least 3 mph over a berkeley bowl on a boat that is running 80 mph. ATM
Originally posted by CHET
That's pretty interesting, i didnt know that.
CHET
this forum has proven that any bowl is better than a berkekly, thats why noone races with the berkeley bowl.
:)
jw