turbo motors and the noise law

[bigq]

With all the hubbub about engine noise could turbos replace blower setups? From the turbo motors I have heard they are way quieter than any roots blower motor. Are they all that quiet?

[FastTimmy]

In a word YEP!! :D and in my last application it was very drive friendly as well.

[bigq]

Who's a good source for putting a turbo in a boat application?

[Unchained]

Putting turbo's on a boat doesn't have to be expensive. It all depends on how much work you want to do or can do.
The components are not that expensive as compared to the monster sum you will pay to have someone else do it for you. Especially if you can run carbs with a draw through system.
[ May 28, 2003, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Unchained ]

[KillerV]

HUFFPOWER:
the man with the turbo know how is carson brummett, 626-792-6410, and bring your big check book he does nothing half assed, he builds most of the big ski race turbo setups. :D by far carson is the man for turbos i have one of his 540 twin systems its the best thing i did dont skimp and build it your self a turn key motor is worth every penny when your on the water but start saving you money for drives turbo motors put out h.p. and tourque all the way to rev limiter o ya there very quit

[Unchained]

KillerV
dont skimp and build it your self a turn key motor is worth every penny [/QB]Well a twin turbo engine from Boostpower is
$ 60k for a motor with about $ 20k of components.
Is that a reasonable amount for some one to pay?

[bigq]

Ok so does someone make parts for them to put on boats. I found the turbos themselves , but what about the intercoolers and FI.

[schiada96]

Race aero, someone on the boards here has a new setup for $8000.
Richard Lee for the intercooler.
Motec for the engine management.
If you are going to go it yourself you need fabrication skills.
Someday I'll build a efi turbo system for myself.
[ May 28, 2003, 11:49 AM: Message edited by: schiada96 ]

[superdave013]

Unchained:
Putting turbo's on a boat doesn't have to be expensive. It all depends on how much work you want to do or can do.
The components are not that expensive as compared to the monster sum you will pay to have someone else do it for you. Especially is you can run carbs with a draw through system. The componets are very expensive for boats with closed engine compartments.
Unless you can make your own water jacketed headers, tailpipes, wastegate tubing and turbo heat shields yourself.
Is the high cost justified?? Well the volume is so low and there is only a few people doing it. That's why it costs so much.

[schiada96]

SD knows about how much it costs to build a turbo motor!!!!!

[superdave013]

schiada96:
SD knows about how much it costs to build a turbo motor!!!!! I know that 2 turbos and 2 wastegates cost as much as a new 8-71(with snout) and tall deck intake.
Then you have the rest of the stuff to make or buy. It adds up!
I'm the first to admit that the marine kits are way over priced. Maybe if they sold 5,000+ a year the price would drop some.

[bigq]

What about finding a older unit like PFM and rebuilding it, or were they all for open motors?

[bigq]

I found this Elim for sale with two 454 motors. Could these be rebuilt. It's in a 27' Daytona.Sounds cheaper to buy it done ,but these look old.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/107Eliminator05-med.jpg
heres the boat, pretty clean and 45k
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/107Eliminator01-med.jpg

[mud duck]

Okay, So talk to my like a third grader. Why are turbo engines so much quieter than blower motors? Also, I was told turbos generate quite a bit of heat under engine hatches. Is this not necessarily true?

[schiada96]

You can get watercooled housings and keep the temps under the hatch cool. Turbos are not as loud
but they still make some noise. There is nothing like the sound of two to4's spooling up :D

[Eric455]

schiada96:
You can get watercooled housings and keep the temps under the hatch cool. Turbos are not as loud
but they still make some noise. There is nothing like the sound of two to4's spooling up :D ohh i'll drink to that one. i have a 79elim. with a 468bbc twin turbo. and as far as heat under the hatch!! i wouldn say so. no really. but the noise is just oo cool ./i mean the noise of the turbos getting ready to kick-in. it sounds like and airplane wanting to take off. i love it. but then again i'm still not used to driving a v-drive yet. this is the reason i havent gone WOT "YET" its just very tricky.
eric

[superdave013]

Eric455:
schiada96:
You can get watercooled housings and keep the temps under the hatch cool. Turbos are not as loud
but they still make some noise. There is nothing like the sound of two to4's spooling up :D ohh i'll drink to that one. i have a 79elim. with a 468bbc twin turbo. and as far as heat under the hatch!! i wouldn say so. no really. but the noise is just oo cool ./i mean the noise of the turbos getting ready to kick-in. it sounds like and airplane wanting to take off. i love it. but then again i'm still not used to driving a v-drive yet. this is the reason i havent gone WOT "YET" its just very tricky.
eric You better not drink to much to that one. Or you'll have the water on the inside of the turbos again if you know what I mean.
LMAO, now we're even. :D

[Craig]

Saw two nice turbo set ups in Havasu a couple of weekends ago.Both were in deckboats and the guys raved about them. Didn't get many specs though.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/140turbob-med.JPG
[ May 29, 2003, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: Craig ]

[Craig]

Screwed the second one up :( Here it is
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/140turbo-med.JPG

[Boozer]

To answer your question on why turbo motors are more quiet it is quite simple.
A turbo uses the engines exhaust to power it. Very efficient wat of adding power based on the fact that you are using what would normally be a waste product to make energy.
Based on the fact that the turbo uses that exhaust, it creates back pressure. The exuast has to flow through the exhaust housing and over a wheel which lowers the noise levels dramatically.
I had a a turbocharged motor running straight pipe exhaust that was actually quieter then the same motor without a turbo and a nice free flowing muffler.
As far as those prices go for turbo setups WOW! There's no way I'd pay that kind of money. Turbos are pretty much a bolt on affair for the most part. You could pick up 2 brand new 20G turbos and 2 external wastegates for about $3,000. Have someone fabricate you the custom headers. As far as an intercooler goes get a nice sized front mount intended for a car and make it work for your application it would be pretty easy to do.

[Eric455]

[/qb][/QUOTE]You better not drink to much to that one. Or you'll have the water on the inside of the turbos again if you know what I mean.
LMAO, now we're even. :D [/QB][/QUOTE]
nice comeback. lmao.... yes now were even. lol...
eric

[schiada96]

two turbos 3000 with wastegates, fabricated jacketed ss headpies at least 2000 , carb boxes 500, water to air intercooler richard lee 1500 thats 7g right there not counting all the visceral crap. eek!

[Eric455]

schiada96:
two turbos 3000 with wastegates, fabricated jacketed ss headpies at least 2000 , carb boxes 500, water to air intercooler richard lee 1500 thats 7g right there not counting all the visceral crap. eek! you tell them man...
eric

[KillerV]

i got a very nice turbo motor built by carson brummet in pasadna for under 40k 950 hp on 14 lbs. boost 120 hrs so far not one problem 28 ' v bottom 100mph this guy knows his stuff so break down and just call him he also builds blower moters

[Craig]

Hey KillerV, is your boat a Howard?

[KillerV]

Craig:
Hey KillerV, is your boat a Howard? yep 28 bullet

[superdave013]

schiada96:
two turbos 3000 with wastegates, fabricated jacketed ss headpies at least 2000 , carb boxes 500, water to air intercooler richard lee 1500 thats 7g right there not counting all the visceral crap. eek! Brummitt quoted me 300 for each carb box and almost a grand for water jacketed exhaust housings. That's why my turbos are just gonna be hot!
I don't think 2K will go far with s.s. jacketed exhaust.

[hottrodder]

Both pics look like Brummett motors to me. The single carb deal is an old Banks like mine.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/93dual_carbs_top-med.jpg
Lets not forget that CB built the blower motors that are rocking Gregs' Skater all up and down Havasu. For guys that know CB and or Greg check out this thread
32' White Skater with Blue Flamed Blower Scoops (http://forums.***boat.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=000882)
This is my favorite quote from that thread;
'Greggy can hardly put gas in that thing himself, let alone do any of his own repairs. Carson makes Greg look good.'

[Unchained]

They make a nice polished alum 4V carb mounting box at www.chassisshop.com (http://www.chassisshop.com)
I have one on my dune buggy and it cost me $150.
I also have seen some guys with turbo's in enclosed engine compartments and they wrapped a piece of about .080" stainless flat with a 1/2" tubing tig welded to it and circulated water through it to cool the turbine housings.
What I have found during this turbo installation is that If you look around for a while you can find deals on components. I got a tremendous deal on the wastegates, throttle bodies and the fuel pressure regulator. I found a source that supplied them for nearly 1/2 retail price.
I also bought the complete Haltech EFI system that included the 160 lb. injectors, ECU, wiring harness, sensors, and the programming software for $ 2,300.00
I shopped around on the EFI system components and the prices ranged up to $3,800 for the EFI system. That's what can make the whole project so expensive is distributors that want to make a 100% margin.
Mark

[superdave013]

Unchained:
They make a nice polished alum 4V carb mounting box at www.chassisshop.com (http://www.chassisshop.com)
I have one on my dune buggy and it cost me $150.
I also have seen some guys with turbo's in enclosed engine compartments and they wrapped a piece of about .080" stainless flat with a 1/2" tubing tig welded to it and circulated water through it to cool the turbine housings.
What I have found during this turbo installation is that If you look around for a while you can find deals on components. I got a tremendous deal on the wastegates, throttle bodies and the fuel pressure regulator. I found a source that supplied them for nearly 1/2 retail price.
I also bought the complete Haltech EFI system that included the 160 lb. injectors, ECU, wiring harness, sensors, and the programming software for $ 2,300.00
I shopped around on the EFI system components and the prices ranged up to $3,800 for the EFI system. That's what can make the whole project so expensive is distributors that want to make a 100% margin.
Mark Mark, thanks for the link. I didn't see any carb boxes for 150 bucks but they are cheeper then Brummitt. (I picked up some used ones that look brand new for a good deal). Anyway I did see some stuff in there that I need. Was going to make myself but the price looked right so I'll order it from them.

[Craig]

KillerV:
Craig:
Hey KillerV, is your boat a Howard? yep 28 bullet Is that the one that was in the magazines? If so, the articles pissed me off. Here's a boat with somethng a little different and cool and there's no freakin' pictures of the engine! Got any?

[mister460]

I've got a novel idea for everybody thinking about turbo motors and the costs involved: Take a few hundred bucks and go to your local technical college and invest in some welding/fabrication/basic machine classes. They all offer night classes. After that you will be amazed at the things the average Joe can build with a little know how and sweat. Unchained fabricated his own beautiful turbo headers for (as far as I know) little more than the cost of raw materials. Turbos can be found very cheaply at many places (eBay, East Coast Turbo, etc.). I got my two Garrett T04B's NIB w/warranty for $800 including shipping. Wastegates can be fabricated or bought cheaply from many different sources. The injection system is really the only thing that really can't be done at home. Look around on the net; there's suprisingly a lot of folk building reliable, high horse motors on the cheap. So what if it doesn't say Bank, PFM, or Brummett on the side!? I'd rather do it all my self and put MY name on the side of it. That's just the way I've always been. It doesn't take a fully equipped machine shop either. Hell, a $350 MIG welder can do just about anything any of us will ever need (as far as welding is concerned). I apologize for the long digression but I personally would hate paying thousands for something that would cost me hundreds to do, most likely at a higher level of quality. Anyway, everybody have a nice day and I hope I inspired somebody to take on the challenge of learning how to do it themselves.
PS-Honorable Discharge in two short months!! Ooh-rah!!!

[Unchained]

mister460:
I've got a novel idea for everybody thinking about turbo motors and the costs involved: Take a few hundred bucks and go to your local technical college and invest in some welding/fabrication/basic machine classes. They all offer night classes. After that you will be amazed at the things the average Joe can build with a little know how and sweat. Unchained fabricated his own beautiful turbo headers for (as far as I know) little more than the cost of raw materials. Turbos can be found very cheaply at many places (eBay, East Coast Turbo, etc.). I got my two Garrett T04B's NIB w/warranty for $800 including shipping. Wastegates can be fabricated or bought cheaply from many different sources. The injection system is really the only thing that really can't be done at home. Look around on the net; there's suprisingly a lot of folk building reliable, high horse motors on the cheap. So what if it doesn't say Bank, PFM, or Brummett on the side!? I'd rather do it all my self and put MY name on the side of it. That's just the way I've always been. It doesn't take a fully equipped machine shop either. Hell, a $350 MIG welder can do just about anything any of us will ever need (as far as welding is concerned). I apologize for the long digression but I personally would hate paying thousands for something that would cost me hundreds to do, most likely at a higher level of quality. Anyway, everybody have a nice day and I hope I inspired somebody to take on the challenge of learning how to do it themselves.
PS-Honorable Discharge in two short months!! Ooh-rah!!! You really hit the nail on the head there,
That's the main reason I posted the turbo project thread. So others could take the initiative to build it theirself also. It's not rocket science. An average guy COULD build it theirself. Even if you just cut out the parts and had someone else weld them up for you. The welding is not the biggest part of it. The sawing out and fitting up is. I made a jig for the turbo headers that I could lend out to some ambitious individual who wants to try it theirself. Once you have the headers made and the turbo's mounted up you can see what you have to work with.
By the way, the turbo's that I'm using I found reman's available at East Coast turbo for
$ 380.00 each
Good Luck

[River Lynchmob]

if someone could show me how to post pics i can show you some or carson's handy work.

[bigq]

River Lynchmob:
if someone could show me how to post pics i can show you some or carson's handy work. Did you post them in the image center yet? You can e-mail them to me if ya want and I'll post them for you. I would like to see them. :D
email rivrboun@tstonramp.com

[River Lynchmob]

bigq,
i sent them to your e mail address, thanks for the help.

[bigq]

Here ya go,
Clean installs:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/107PICT0116-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/107PICT0147-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/107PICT0148-med.JPG
Are those Gentry systems new or are they rebuilt systems?
[ June 16, 2003, 11:32 AM: Message edited by: bigq ]

[River Lynchmob]

Thanks for the post.
The engines were built new with all new parts at build time the race aero motor is about 15 years old and the gentry motor is probably about 7 or 8 years old. they both have b & m 2 speed trannies cooupled to # 3 drives.

[bigq]

Well I am just starting to learn abot the turbo motors. I take it I can find these systems used and have them rebuilt? I just don't have time to do all the fab work myself and it would look like crap. :D I think I would rather have it fuel injected though. :)

[River Lynchmob]

you can find just about anything used, you just have to ask yourself if youre getting a good deal buying it used and spending money to re build it. sometimes you end up worse off then if you would have bought it new. fuel injection is real nice you get much more power and its much more efficient the only down side is if one little thing in the computer goes down youre on the trailer unless you have a laptop with you. i know that carson is getting a little over 1600 hp out of his fuel injected motors on race fuel and about 1100 to 1150 on a carborated motor on race gas. he gets more than that on 91 from a fuel injected motor. like a few have said before hes the authority on turbo motors. but he builds any motor as well as anyone. he does the blower motors in my dads 42 fountian. just under a 1000 hp each no problems (knock wood).