Help!! Is my F-250 a Lemon?

[TheEduKATor]

Sorry for the long post, I'm venting.
My 2003 F-250 completely shuts off while driving to work this morning. No steering, no breaks, and cars coming up fast behind me with no emergency lane. I had to sit there and hope they wouldn't rear end me. I'm ready to call the police & tow truck when all of a sudden it just starts up like nothing happened and runs fine so I pull off and drive slow the last mile to work
The mechanics said nothing showed up on the diagnostics check, but this doesn't give me piece of mind. If I had my family with me and I was towing the boat to the river on a busy freeway we'd could be hurt or dead . He agreed something needed to be done but he could do nothing because the computers showed nothing wrong.
He said I would have to call Ford directly and file a grievence. Has anyone had any similar situations like this that could lend a helping hand into which direction I should go? What qualifies a vehicle as being a lemon? I've had numerous problems but the computer always shows nothing is wrong. Since the computer shows nothing wrong, they look at me like I'm a liar and say, "If it happens again, just bring it in and we'll fix it for you." If this happens again, is a big f@#*ing "IF" when it's my life on the line. I'm not putting down FORD, I still love mine, I just want one that is safe. I know alot of you are FORD owners on here so any information is greatly appreciated.

[NastyOne]

Found On Road Dead

[revpuffdaddy]

Is it a diesel? If so, it is the main fuse. Happened to several of my friends Ford diesels.

[HCS]

It kind of sucks. They have to be able to duplicate the problem
to be able pin point it.
Your truck may have to stall all together and be towed in before
they can solve the problem.
For lemon law to take effect you have to have a problem and
prove it can't be repaired by the dealer. Usually the samething
over and over again.
I had one guy with a Ford truck that had breaks that pulled to the
right and the dealer couldn't fix it after 5 trys.
He found out online that it was a problem Ford was having with
all trucks like his. After getting consumer affairs involved he was
able to roll it back in under the lemon law.

[TheEduKATor]

revpuffdaddy,
It's only a V-10, I know I should have went with the diesel though.

[Jungle Boy]

If your's is a diesel it sounds like what was happening to my truck. An exhaust pipe by-pass dealy that closes when it's warming up. Hard to explain, but when it's sitting in the driveway warming up. The idle kicks up a couple 100 RPM and as soon as you tap the brake it goes back to a normal idle. It was this module that was screwing up on mine. That's what they told me. Mine did the same thing. It would freak me out when it happened; you'd just coast down to an stop and wait for a couple of minutes. Easy fix at the dealer. It took about 1 hr. Might be the same deal with yours.
OOPS - I just seen that's it's a V-10.

[dimarcobros]

I am not sure if this helps but that use to happen on my old truck, '79. Turns out it was a wire that connected to the starter. It owuld shut off like that then all of a sudden a couple of minutes later it would fire no problem.
DMB

[TheEduKATor]

HARDCORE-SKI,
Thanks for the info. I'm hoping it doesn't do it again.

[mmered8299]

This web site might have more info for you .....http://www.thedieselstop.com

[77charger]

Originally posted by TheEduKATor
The mechanics said nothing showed up on the diagnostics check, but this doesn't give me piece of mind. If I had my family with me and I was towing the boat to the river on a busy freeway we'd could be hurt or dead . He agreed something needed to be done but he could do nothing because the computers showed nothing wrong.
. What do they go to school for.This is the lamest excuse that comes from mechanics today.If it doesnt show on their 100k(maybe more im guesing) computer they cant do nothing abou it.Th3en you warranty expires then they can somehow figure it out for a fee.

[HCS]

Originally posted by 77charger
What do they go to school for.This is the lamest excuse that comes from mechanics today.If it doesnt show on their 100k(maybe more im guesing) computer they cant do nothing abou it.Th3en you warranty expires then they can somehow figure it out for a fee.
Their not technicians or mechanics, their parts replacers.
That's how they repair stuff these days.

[TheEduKATor]

I've only got 16,009 miles on it. The first computer went out after only driving it for 3 miles off of the dealer's lot. Turns out when they were cleaning the truck while I was signing papers someone sprayed the computer with some chemicals and fried it. It was replaced and the truck was fine.

[CA Stu]

Sounds like a simple electrical problem to me.
I had a battery take a shit in a truck that was relatively new. Fired it up with a jump, and ran fine above 2000 rpm (V8), drove almost all the way home, thinking I could recharge the battery, tried to let it idle at a stop light and it died. No lights, no power to anything at all.
It's scary when your truck dies and has no lights at all in the middle of the night on a busy street, I feel for ya.
Replaced battery, end of problem.
Cheers
CA Stu

[Mandelon]

Check your battery cable and ground connections. Could be that simple....

[framer1]

Friends don't let friends buy Fords. That is the golden rule;)

[TheEduKATor]

Mandelon,
I checked the connections as soon I got to work, I had to hear it from the students while I was doing it. What happened Mr. V, the hoods up again. I asked them to check the charging system, and he said they did. I'm thinking I should just take it to Pep Boys or Auto Zone and have them run their free charging diagnostic test

[TheEduKATor]

framer1,
Thanks for the advice, a year late though. My chevy wasn't doing that much better. I'm starting to think it doesn't matter what I buy, I just have bad luck with any vehicle. Last year with my 98 Chevy Tahoe, my upper control arm completely peeled off of the frame. Head gaskets went out, transmission went out, blew my rear end out, master cylinder went out backing down the launch ramp at windsor. It also had an electrical problem that caused it to cut out periodically. It cut out on my bro on the freeway while driving through Palm Springs with the boat. I got tired of dumping money into it so I I thought I'd fix the problem by buying a new FORD.

[HCS]

Alot of times it's wiring harness problems. Check the connections
to the ECU, make sure nothings loose or corroded. Look for pinched wires. Of course the dealer should have already done all the test.
If the ECU gets wet or over heated it's a dead duck. Either one
will make it malfunction. But usually if it's bad it's bad. They usually
don't act up then work again, if it does it should trip the engine
light and throw a code.

[framer1]

EduKator, Sorry about all your problems, it does sound like it doesn't matter what truck you're driving. There's always Toyota you know they never break. I have always had luck with GMC's. Hopefullly it is a one time problem.

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by CA Stu
Sounds like a simple electrical problem to me.
I had a battery take a shit in a truck that was relatively new. Fired it up with a jump, and ran fine above 2000 rpm (V8), drove almost all the way home, thinking I could recharge the battery, tried to let it idle at a stop light and it died. No lights, no power to anything at all.
It's scary when your truck dies and has no lights at all in the middle of the night on a busy street, I feel for ya.
Replaced battery, end of problem.
Cheers
CA Stu
I had a loose negative cable on the battery on my Wrangler, and it caused an intermittent problem. I grabbed the cable and pullled on it and it came right off. My engine would just die w/o warning... Tightened the cable back up and no more problem...

[Scream]

My Navigator has a weird problem, water leaks from bad hood seal of all things on to the coil block shorting out a cylendar or two. Not cool.
Waayyy back in 84 I had a 300 zx that did the same thing you are complaining about. Just up and died on the way to work. Had to walk about 5 miles through the worst part of town to get to work. Went back later and started right up. Mechanic couldn't find anything wrong with the computer and no diagnostic codes. Replaced the "brain" myself and never had a problem again.

[Flying Tiger]

Had the same problem on my '03 Ford work trucks.
Turned out to be a intermittant bad connection on the sidepost style battery.
Dodge, GM and Ford all have this problem with the sidepost style batts.
Took the dealer several return trips to figure that out.
If it happens again, get out and giggle the positive(red) connection on the battery. Ya won't get shocked or anything.
Hope this helps.
If ya want a hell of a towing truck ya still gotta buy Ford, GM or Dodge.
If want a really quality truck with limited towing ability, then it's Toyota or Nissan.
I tow over 9500 lbs and ain't no Tundra or Titan gonna tow that.

[Back To Havasu]

Had a similar problem on the wife's 01 Chrysler Sebring (since traded in). When the dealer couldn't fix it because "the computer says there is nothing wrong," I asked them to call Chrysler and ask for the latest service bulletins or info whether a similar problem had happened to other cars. Chrysler had similar complaints, my dealer made the recommended repair, and the car was good to go. You might ask your dealer to call Ford, or if possible contact Ford directlly. You may not be the only one, and the problem could be simple. Just a thought.:confused:

[TheEduKATor]

Thanks for the info everyone. I wanted to see if anyone had similar issues with the same type of vehicle. It's good to know it's not just my truck. I will contact FORD directly and see what they have to say.
Flying Tiger,
I agree with you, I would never give up my FORD for a Nissan or Toyota. Sure they are good in quality, but I like having the towing capacity. I forget i'm towing half the time until I look in the rear view. I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping it's a quick fix. I want that piece of mind back for when I'm towing the boat through the desert on those long river trips.

[waterboy]

i had a 99 f-250 got the lemon law, then i got a 01 f-250 diesel-tranny went out at 20,000 miles, then the truck would just die on me sometimes for just a second and sometimes a complete stop.the problem ended up being a cam sensor, i dont know if that would be the same for a v-10.if you have any questions on the lemon law let me know it was easy.
good luck..shannon

[al cole'holic]

..oh no, HavasuCig is gonna have a few words to say about this one :( I have also had a 'lemon law' Ford too!

[OGShocker]

OK, I think I see the problem.
First lift the hood.
Next, if the motor is COLD and only if it is cold, remove the radiator cap.
Have someone back your F.O.R.D. out of the way.
Pull a Chevrolet into the F.O.R.D.'s place and put the radiator cap on the Chevrolet.
Get in the Chevy and drive, drive, drive! :D
OK, sorry, I had to....;)

[Kachina26]

Have they actually spent time with the vehicle? Maybe put a few miles on it? Checked bulletins, preliminary information etc? maybe you just need to try another dealer. A lemon is one that comes back for the same problem 3 times or more. It don't take much to qualify either, it may not be in your nature (it's not in mine), but it may be time to throw a fit in the service manager's office. You have a no code driveability issue, which are in many cases very difficult to diagnose. These require a tech who is willing and able to spend time with your truck until he can find the cause. In any case, a call to Ford is in order. Document every call and contact you have. Now is the time to get assertive. Good luck and keep us posted.

[HammerDown]

Originally posted by TheEduKATor
revpuffdaddy,
It's only a V-10, I know I should have went with the diesel though.
Actually...as much of a Ford person I am. I'd PASS on their 6.0 Diesel. Let someone else deal with the R+D Diesel issues.

[MissHavasuCig]

Originally posted by al cole'holic
..oh no, HavasuCig is gonna have a few words to say about this one :( I have also had a 'lemon law' Ford too!
Yep ~ here we are! :p
If you find that you need to get it lemon-lawed we used a lawyer in Orange County without a penny out of our pocket. I never even met the guy - I just faxed up all my paperwork and he took care of the rest! Just keep documentation of every time you take it to the shop and if it adds up to a lemon-law vehicle you could get a new one that hopefully doesn't have problems, especially safety factor problems! We were offered a new replacement vehicle with a service plan or our money back.
Good Luck!

[dicudmore]

Originally posted by 77charger
What do they go to school for.This is the lamest excuse that comes from mechanics today.If it doesnt show on their 100k(maybe more im guesing) computer they cant do nothing abou it.Then you warranty expires then they can somehow figure it out for a fee.
You really think its a warranty thing? Ford's money spends just as easy to the dealer as the customers money does, shit easier, they don't have to call and get permission from Ford after they figure it out. Just do it and get paid for it...
Not to sound like TOO big of a smart ass here, but seriously what do you want the tech to do in that situation? Car comes in running fine, no current or history codes to indicate where the fault MAY have been, just start replacing parts??? Where do you start? Would you feel any better that way? "Sorry sir no codes in the computer but I went ahead and changed your piston return springs just in case that was it"
Obviously check batt connections, common prob.
What did the truck do after it quit? Crank but not start, not crank
at all? Lights, radio, etc work? When it did re-start had the clock reset? Pre-sets reset?
When that all fails, as shocker said, remove radiator cap back FORD out, pull new truck in and toss old cap, install new cap as we don't even want the radiator cap from the bad memories.

[HCS]

My Ford's been towed 4 times in one year. Want to by it?
Now I have a Chevy.

[Fiat48]

Many vehicles die suddenly..then sit a few minutes and restart. Then drive away like nothing happened. Might happen in 10 minutes of driving or hours or weeks. Not just Fords, Jeep, chrysler produsts and Chevy does it to.
Odds are..the camshaft or crankshaft position sensor is bad. It doesn't set a code (at least not on ford, jeep and chrslers I have found with the problem. Not familiar with a V10 but I am guessing it has a camshaft position sensor instead or a crankshaft position sensor. Usually only a couple bolts hold them in place. Easy to change, once you find out where it's located.
PS: 1999 Ford diesel 240,000 miles and still has all original sensors. So, you never know.

[TheEduKATor]

dicudmore
Not to sound like TOO big of a smart ass here, but seriously what do you want the tech to do in that situation? Car comes in running fine, no current or history codes to indicate where the fault MAY have been, just start replacing parts??? Where do you start? Would you feel any better that way? "Sorry sir no codes in the computer but I went ahead and changed your piston return springs just in case that was it"
I didn't ask the tech to do anything else in this situation. If the computer showed nothing wrong I know there is nothing he could do. I asked to speak to the service manager to see what else we could do. The service manager completely understood and said he would not feel comfortable driving in my truck either. I asked him to put himself in my shoes and what if it was his family with him while the vehicle did this on the freeway. It doesn't matter if it happens one time or ten times, the fact that it happened at all and put my life in jeopardy is of great concern to me.
All I was posting for was to see if anyone has had any similar incidents with their FORDS and what they have done in this situation.
It's not just this one episode that has brought me to this point. My vehicle has been in the service center 5 times this year. One month after I bought the truck, I went as far as recording myself on video starting the truck in the morning so they could see and hear how it acted during cold starts. It would start for a second then die. It then started to do it on all starts not just in the morning. Again nothing could be done because no codes were set off. For a truck to have less than 1000 miles on it and not to stay idling something wasn't right. I could see if I lived in Alaska but we are talking about April in San Diego.
As far as today's episode, after the truck quit it didn't turn over at all. I didn't have time to check the radio and lights because I was concerned about the traffic fast approaching behind me on the fastlane of the freeway with no emergency lane to turn out. Any time you tie up a major freeway with a truck that is still relatively new, well serviced and maintained and not abused, it's enough to make anybody want to find out what the problem is regardless of if the computer shows a code or not. I just checked it out right now and the clock did not reset or the radio stations.
I agree with you and shocker but instead of backing in a new chevy truck I think I should just buy a tow truck, it will save me money on whichever make of truck I get.

[Hotcrusader76]

I would definitely be dropping that truck off a the dealers front door-step and getting yourself a legal advisor if somebody at Ford doesn't step up to the plate.
It obviously sounds electrical related. Now whether it's electronic or electrical still remains to be investigated.
Electrical- Check all connections from the alt. and starter. Make sure they are tight and clean and nothing has been crimped or pinched. From there venture into the fuse box. Pull and plug all fuses hoping to fix some poor continuity on a fuse or what not. It might help.
Electronic...well....this is the hard one. I have a gut feeling you may be plagued with a problem that was built into the trucks computer, something beyond the scope of the service mechanic. Ask Ford if they can change out the computer. If they tell you "No it's not the computer" then hire somebody else to do it and then send them the bill when it's fixed.
Other than the trucks brain or electrical connections there can't possibly be anything more other than fuel pressure.
Fuel pressure!!!:eek!: :eek!: :eek!: What do you mean fuel pressure???? Well if the fuel pump is intermittently working (loose connection within your tank) then you're going to experience these symtoms as well. Sure it should log a code within your computer telling it (low fuel pressure logged), well you might then think it should have logged the code into the computer...???? But who knows how Ford built the error codes. Just something to think about.
Sort of sucks to have to resort to extensive troubleshooting like this at 1000 miles...but it's your familys life we're talking about, and until you're taken care it's all ya got.
Good luck....and stay off the I-8 around 4:00PM:D

[TheEduKATor]

Hotcrusader76,
I'm definately gonna get on the horn first thing in the morning. It's not the I-8 that concerns me as much as it is the I-15. So for anybody in the San Diego area who drove I-15 N this morning and you were late to work, you can blame it on me this once.

[Kachina26]

Originally posted by 77charger
What do they go to school for.This is the lamest excuse that comes from mechanics today.If it doesnt show on their 100k(maybe more im guesing) computer they cant do nothing abou it.Th3en you warranty expires then they can somehow figure it out for a fee. The computer is only about 2500 bucks and is no better than the guy operating it. School cannot teach common sense, which is a misnomer because it's really not that common. Many techs out there will blow off a warranty job because it pays about 1/2 to 2/3 of what the same cust pay job pays. This is not right, but sadly in some shops it is reality. Our service manager will not let us blow off a job, as a matter of fact he will drive the vehicle for whatever time it takes to make it fail and get it diagnosed. As a result the district manager often brings by vehicles that other dealers can't or won't repair. Good for the ego but not for the pocket. So like I said if the tech is just plugging in the scanner and telling you sorry no codes I can't fix it, then it's time to go to another dealer. Perhaps with a recommendation from Ford's cust service center. BTW, Ford, Chev or GMC they all fail sometimes, because they are all designed and built by humans.

[AZKC]

I remember one of our lemon laws here in AZ. 3 attempts to fix the same problem in one year(A no problem found or could not duplicate is not considered an attempt thats why the tech probably did not just throw some parts at it)
If you like to read lawyer mumbo jumbo here's a link to CA's Lemon Laws
Lemon Laws (http://www.yourlemonlawrights.com/state_laws/california.htm#Lemon-Laws)

[dicudmore]

Originally posted by TheEduKATor
I didn't ask the tech to do anything else in this situation. If the computer showed nothing wrong I know there is nothing he could do. I asked to speak to the service manager to see what else we could do. The service manager completely understood and said he would not feel comfortable driving in my truck either. I asked him to put himself in my shoes and what if it was his family with him while the vehicle did this on the freeway. It doesn't matter if it happens one time or ten times, the fact that it happened at all and put my life in jeopardy is of great concern to me.
All I was posting for was to see if anyone has had any similar incidents with their FORDS and what they have done in this situation.
It's not just this one episode that has brought me to this point. My vehicle has been in the service center 5 times this year. One month after I bought the truck, I went as far as recording myself on video starting the truck in the morning so they could see and hear how it acted during cold starts. It would start for a second then die. It then started to do it on all starts not just in the morning. Again nothing could be done because no codes were set off. For a truck to have less than 1000 miles on it and not to stay idling something wasn't right. I could see if I lived in Alaska but we are talking about April in San Diego.
As far as today's episode, after the truck quit it didn't turn over at all. I didn't have time to check the radio and lights because I was concerned about the traffic fast approaching behind me on the fastlane of the freeway with no emergency lane to turn out. Any time you tie up a major freeway with a truck that is still relatively new, well serviced and maintained and not abused, it's enough to make anybody want to find out what the problem is regardless of if the computer shows a code or not. I just checked it out right now and the clock did not reset or the radio stations.
I agree with you and shocker but instead of backing in a new chevy truck I think I should just buy a tow truck, it will save me money on whichever make of truck I get.
Edukator,
I didn't mean to be bagging on you or the break down situation at all. I was bagging on the dude that was bagging on the mechanic for not knowing what to fix when there was no symptom at time of check-out.
The broke down on the side of the highway sucks regardless of the emblem on front. Like Kachina said, they're all built and designed by humans so they all break.
All of the radio, etc related questions were things to keep in mind if you unfortunately have trouble again, (that fixes itself mysteriously) to try and get resolved, like if you lost batt power etc.
You've done the right thing by going to the service manager etc. You know that throwing a fit won't get you anywhere but the rest of it is good, asking what can be done, about calling the tech-line, all good.

[randy77zt]

i am a ford dealer tech.if some detailer sprayed cleaner on the ecm when it was new unplug the ecm and look inside the plug for white powdery corrosion.if the moisture wasnt cleared out it will corrode again.post the vin i will will run tsb's for it.unfortunatly the flat rate pay system prevents us from spending as much time as possable in a hard to find problem.some times on these kind of things i have some luck getting the wiring diagram book and cleaning the ground wires where the attach to the body with a gaskit removal pad on a die grinder.

[TheEduKATor]

randy77zt,
Thanks for the info, check your P.M.