Blower motor exhaust

[e-ticket]

I am having blower motor built for my 74 Howard )enclosed engine hatch. It has been suggested by builder to use Lightnings. I have existing transom holes already. Should I go the Lightnings or use something like the Imco Powerflow. Would the Imco be easier to match to my existing holes?

[Infomaniac]

Go for the lightnings. They can build them to match holes you have now. Some measuring, pics and better yet sending them your old risers will ensure a good fit. You need as good exhaust as possible for a blower engine.

[Craig]

I use IMCO Powerflows on my blown 509, 878 horse. If you go with the Lightning, make sure you get the all stainless ones.

[Heatseeker]

Hey Craig, can you give me some info on your engine particulars? I'm in the middle of building a blown BBC and I'd like to see 878 horses too :p !

[Infomaniac]

I'm curious about a 878 HP 509 myself.

[MAXIMUS]

Well if looks are important then go with the lightings... They are very attractive! :) However if you want the best performance besides big tube headers then definitly go with imco power flows. They have different riser angles to help with existing holes. I'm using them on my blown 540 & they work good! They are very ugly though frown

[e-ticket]

Thanks guys for the input! Been polishing the T-400 trans case.
Craig,
Why would I have to go the stainless Lightnings rather than the standard ones (other than looks)? I was thinking about powder coating them. Are you Imco's polished?
Infomaniac,
Are running Lightnings? My previous exhaust was the log type.
Maximus,
Are your Imcos polished? I think the Imco polished ones look great. I like the idea of mounting the manifold and then being able to pick the riser. Then the 4" stainles back to the exhaust tips. Was wondering why you thought yours were ugly.
Exhaust tips are another story. Want a tip with internal flapper plus the external flapper and be able to put in muffler if necessary. Things are getting tough around here.
Expecting to get at least 850 h.p. out of the 468 chevy, with 8-71, chevy alum. wishbone heads, ultradyne roller cam.

[Infomaniac]

e ticket A tube header will out perform any manifold header. I think Lightning is better on the wallet as far as tube headers are concerned.
Some guys get away with the manifold type but there is more power to be found with the tube headers on blower engines.
If you do not have any exhaust now, you might as well go with Lightnings. If are running Gil or Imco before building the blower engine that is a different story.

[e-ticket]

Infomaniac,
Do you feel the Lightning stainless is an advantage other than looks? Are they going to get hot in the enclosed engine? Would powder coating them be a problem?
My engine builder says Lighting also. Just looking into the pros and cons from people that run different types.

[Infomaniac]

e-ticket Those non stainless lightning headers paint up real nice. JetBoat Brian is a champ at painting them.
Here is a link to the step by step process if you want to do it yourself.
One More How To - Compliments of HavasuBarney.com (http://www.havasubarney.com/reader_projects_detail.asp?BPID=76)

[Craig]

Heatseeker:
Hey Craig, can you give me some info on your engine particulars? I'm in the middle of building a blown BBC and I'd like to see 878 horses too :p !* 509 w/B&M 420 blower, PFM Intercooler, 9# boost
* GM sq port heads, good valves, springs, bowel clean-up, Crane roller rockers.
* Good size Crane hydraulic roller cam (sorry, can't find the spec card)
* full MSD ignition, 34 degrees advance locked in
* JE 9.3 pistons, Manley rods, Kellog crank.
* IMCO Powerflow exhaust, 2 Holley 750 DP's (on the dyno the carbs were starting to restrict the motor on the top end)
My IMCO's were not polished. In hindsight, I wish I would have bought the polished :( But, I lost a waterpump discharge hose at 100 mph, heated the motor enough to bubble the black powdercoat on the manifolds. Had them stripped and powdercoated silver. They still work great and look OK.
The tube headers will make some more horsepower on the top end by design. But, I was told on the dyno it's about 15-20. Depends onthe deal you can get. I'd like to have a set of Lightnings or CMI, but the cost to upgrade vs the gain ain't worth it. The IMCO's were an off the shelf deal and they bolted right up.
A guy I know had a set of the Lightnings with the carbon steel tube, I know one is ss, one is carbon, but don't recall if the carbon steel is the inside or outside tube. He drained them after every run and last poker run one developed a good leak and hydrauliced the engine.
Let me know if you need any other info. I think one of the keys is the cam. One of my running buddies has essentialy the same motor only with Brodex aluminum heads and a smaller Lunati cam. He made 13 more hp. I'll see if I can find that card.
Craig
[ December 02, 2002, 07:58 AM: Message edited by: Craig ]

[Blown509Liberator]

Here is 509 842 hp..... http://nothinbutjets.homestead.com/files/BBspecsheet.jpg http://nothinbutjets.homestead.com/files/dyno1.jpg

[Blown509Liberator]

P.S.
I ran Gil's. The will live longer than the lightings. http://nothinbutjets.homestead.com/files/10.JPG

[Infomaniac]

Those are nice engines.
How many of you dynoed your engines with the exhaust used on the boat? With water going out?
Power ranges change big time between dyno headers and boat manifold headers.
Blown509Liberator: I enjoyed meeting you at Lake Whitney. How many RPM's did your engine turn in the boat?

[Blown509Liberator]

Info
that was not me at Lake Whitney. I did spin my 509 to 6k. And not i did not dyno with the myexhaust If you look i moved the wat entry all the way to the end i only had 8" from transom tips to pipes.
MikeW

[Craig]

Infomaniac:
How many of you dynoed your engines with the exhaust used on the boat? I asked about that prior to my dyno runs. The shop owner has a 22 Daytona with a big blower motor in it. He said, "He ran a bunch of tests on his motor when he originally put it together." He said, "The dyno headers will make a little more horsepower then when you run water manifolds, but not so much that you'll see a 50 horsepower difference."
Given his background of boat racing and the clientel he has, I just take his word on it.
Craig

[Infomaniac]

Sorry Blown509Liberator, I had a blonde moment there. I realized that after I posted it but did not have time to change it. I was at work.
Your dyno sheet has a red x at the moment. That is some very useful data.
Craig: most dyno folks do not want to mess with running boat exhaust because of the hassle.
He might be correct about the highest numbers but the POWER RANGE is seriously effected by the header. If you are using the dyno data to get the biggest number the dyno headers are great.
If you use the dyno info to make sure the engine combination makes its power (regardless of how high the number) where it is actually going to be used in the boat. Then the actual exhaust is important.
I'm not saying that yours does but. If your engine makes it's best power 1,500 RPM above where you run it in the boat. It is time for some changes.
A dyno tube header vs an Imco will show a difference in peak power RPM.
I guess the point I am trying to make is: If someone goes to the expense of dyno testing their engine. The data obtained needs to be as accurate as possible to way the engine will be operated. If the biggest number is the objective I guess it does not matter.

[MAXIMUS]

I did a lot of research before I purchased my exhaust. The lightings as of a year ago did not offer a tubed header with an inside diameter above 1 7/8". On my blown 540 Im running dart 360's which have been massaged to flow a fair amount more. I did not want to restrict my free flowing air pump with a restrictive exhaust. The imco power flow's have a 2 1/4" runner that I port matched to the head! My water enters the exhaust at the last 6" of the tail pipe. Im using 1 piece stainless exhaust tips with the silicon seal & stainless trim ring. By far the only way to go there. Also I didn't waste time with an internal flapper (old motor would burn the flaps out in short time). I used the external rubber clamp on style. I can visually see if they are still there. Also with the manifold style exhaust you can preheat the water going into the motor, increase your volume & reduce the likely hood of steam pockets.
E-ticket to answer your question, I hate the way they look. They are big & bulky looking next to a pretty blown injected motor. If I had some zoomies.... oh boy... no there is a sweet look. Info's ride would be a good example!! :)

[Schiada76]

I have Lightining's water jacketed and they look geat powder coated. They are 2 1/8" id. They send you a spec sheet on how to measure everything and then give you a little transition elbow from the header to the tip. :D

[MAXIMUS]

That is pretty interesting? At the time I was shopping for exhaust, I spoke to lighting & they didn't offer anything in that range? They even recommended checking with cmi. That is nice that they have that now. They have a great looking product!

[Schiada76]

MAXIMUS:
That is pretty interesting? At the time I was shopping for exhaust, I spoke to lighting & they didn't offer anything in that range? They even recommended checking with cmi. That is nice that they have that now. They have a great looking product!Gawddamnit! Sorry Max I MEANT to say I think they are 2 1/8" they are off so I'm going to check tonight.

[Schiada76]

I'm not as dumb as I are I think.
They tape at 2 1/16" at the flange, but does that mean they are not 1 7/8" actual tube diameter at the bends? :confused:

[J540]

OK 1st of all, Lightnings are 1 7/8 on the primary I\D, primary tubes are stainless, secondaries are mild steel, purpose being for the stainless primary to prevent rusting and blowing thru. If you're making any kind of power, anything under 2 1/8 I\D is too small, especially on a blown deal. You can go with Imco Powerflow Plus which are 2 1/4 I\D with 15 in. of runner which will outflow Lightnings any day of the week. Or, you can step up, like myself, and buy the CMI Big E Race Top 2 1/4 and let your blown motor breath. Trying to make 800HP and putting a small tube header on, I promise you will lose 20% of your power. If you don't believe me, go borrow some CMI 2 1/4's or Imco PF +'s and dyno your motor and then put your Lightnings on and dyno it again and we'll see what the difference is. I have a set of CMI E tops that I want to sell with cool collars, fully polished at a killer deal. But again, they're only 1 7/8 inch primaries. Like MAXIMUS did - buy the Imco Power +'s if you don't want to step up to CMI Big E Top. Because it's like putting a rope around your neck and tightening it up. It's kind of hard to breath and you're not going to run hard for very long. On lightnings flowing better than the riser type manifolds on a blown motor - that's B.S. On a carborated motor, they seem to work better. I talked to Jan at Lightning years ago when he 1st started building them. I have one of his 1st sets he built. I had them on a 20 ft v-drive cruiser, 600HP, for 4 years - coated in the water jacketed area - drained every time out before they blew thumb-sized holes in the primary elbow bend at the top. Jan will tell you himself they won't flow enough for a big Cu\ci motor. You can even call Jim McComb at Rewarder headers who used to build them. So save your money - either buy the big E Top CMI's or some Stellings or for $2500.00-range, buy the Imcos. Trust me, don't waste your money on anything else.

[J540]

Buy the way lightning's r 1 7/8s cuz he did not want 2 spend 8000$ or more on new die's 2 bend over 2" dia,

[Schiada76]

Thanks for the schooling. I think I'll stick to asking questions from now on. the f'n things do measure 2" though, with a tape measure. :confused:

[Infomaniac]

BradP:
Thanks for the schooling. I think I'll stick to asking questions from now on. the f'n things do measure 2" though, with a tape measure. :confused: Me too, I would hate to be spreading BS, It appears I stand corrected?

[Schiada76]

That's a five for j540! :D

[e-ticket]

Thanks for the reply's!
It sounds to me that the bigges runners is the best way to go(Imco)and pretty next (Lightnings).