turbo bbc

[vdrivenman]

looking for a website or information source for
bbc (pump gas) engine specs for twin turbo set up. need all info from fuel system,pistons c/r, cam,plug heat range everything. bought an older sanger fb w two bbc's and has turbo set up that was not on either motor.
trying to decide which way to go !
thanks

[Slick]

Good Luck
Superdave might be able to help you out.

[flat broke]

Well,
Since I'm trying my hand with the little devils (turbos) I can tell you that they're quiet, have a nice feeling hit when the boost comes on, and clutter up your engine bay like nothing else :) For real world information I would contact the following
Gary Teague Marine (http://www.gtmarine.com/htm/Home.htm)
Boostpower USA (http://www.boostpower.com/home.htm)
Do you have any pics of the turbo setup that you inheirited with the boat? We might be able to at least tell you what you have, so it will make talking to the guys above a little more informative.
Good luck with it,
Chris

[vdrivenman]

i will try & get some pic's and post them. i have not seen turbos run in a flat b 4. i have seen them in hydros and the bigger go fast boats, but no flat.
the quiet part interest me so i can keep the game wardens off my ass. this will be a river /lake rider since it is a true flat. does the power band create a problem getting the boat to take a set or interfere with the set afterwards(like hittin the nos).
i have had 1 flat and two hydros b 4 this flat. it is geared really low with 15%. several buddies run sbf turbos in mustangs and swear by them.
i' ll try & get some pic's.
and try the web sites thanks

[058]

vdrivenman, I have a twin turboed flat [18' Hondo]...maybe I can help with your setup.

[woodster]

my buddy has a 19 southwind with twin turbo ford setup.. its really alot quieter than my boat and man when those turbos kick in it puts u back in the seat.. hes broken 2 berkely pumps though..i know gale banks set it up so u should call them and im sure they can help u out..

[flat broke]

I wouldn't waste your time calling Banks on the old boat turbo setups. When my brother had his setup, he called them to get some info and they told him that the people that knew about those systems no longer worked there and they couldn't be of assistance. As I've learned from Superdave, if you want info on marine turbo setups, start keeping your eyes on the speed ski boats. A ton em run turbo setups, and those things run 100+ all day long.
Chris

[Snowboat]

How can the turbos be quieter? Aren't you still running over the transom?

[schiada96]

Let me know if I can help
[ September 27, 2002, 07:52 AM: Message edited by: schiada96 ]

[burbanite]

Snowboat:
How can the turbos be quieter? Aren't you still running over the transom?Turbo = Rotary Muffler

[superdave013]

burbanite:
Snowboat:
How can the turbos be quieter? Aren't you still running over the transom?Turbo = Rotary MufflerI was getting checked for mufflers one time and told the cop that they were turbo mufflers! He said "well they sure are quiet I don't know why more people don't use them". I told him that they cost alot for just a set of mufflers! He must have been a rookie.

[058]

superdave013:
burbanite:
Snowboat:
How can the turbos be quieter? Aren't you still running over the transom?Turbo = Rotary MufflerI was getting checked for mufflers one time and told the cop that they were turbo mufflers! He said "well they sure are quiet I don't know why more people don't use them". I told him that they cost alot for just a set of mufflers! He must have been a rookie.I had a guy ask me what kind of carburators those were as he pointed to the turbochargers, I just smiled and told him they were a new experamental side draft Stromberg. :D :D :D

[SPECTRABRENT]

Chris,
Are you adding the turbos to the Spectra 20?
How is your brothers gel coat coming along?
BRent

[flat broke]

Brent,
The turbos had their maiden voyage on the 20 last Wednesday at Elsinore. The initial hit from the boost feels nice :) :) :) but oil temp rose a little quick for my liking. Waiting on a cooler then its off to do some real testing. I can't wait to keep the throttle pinned for a little while and see how fast she'll really go. This is a different setup than the Banks unit that Ty had. I'm running an intercooled/jacketed/shrouded setup from Race Aero. I pulled 9lbs during a 7 second run, but didn't keep it to the floor any longer because of the oil temp.
Ty's gel is still in the works. Barney has had to do A LOT of fiberglass repair on the bottom to fix some hairline cracks in the gel that were part way into the glass. I would guess he still has a little wait on the boat, but it should look good when he gets it back. He can fill ya in on the particulars.
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

That is great!
I think if you can work on turbo motors, its the way to go for jet boats.
What kind of oil cooler are you going with?
Brent

[flat broke]

3"x16" with thermostat. I called GT and they recomended that size based on what I was going to be doing with the boat. Had it been a V-drive ski boat setup to run at 5k rpm all day long, I'm sure the recomendation would have been larger, but since I mainly run around 3000-3500 with little 60 second full throttle bursts, the unit mentioned above should be more than adequate. The added plus is that when I'm not on spooling the turbines as hard and the temp starts to drop naturally, the thermostat will keep the oil from getting too cold and not buring off the condensation.
Chris

[Rayhill]

I have a 1977 Carlson CV23 with an old M&W Gear twin turbo set up. See "Twin turbo engine spec" thread. Like Flatbroke says I usually go wide open throttle in short 60 second bursts. I have an engine knock alert system and it starts to go crazy after about 45 seconds. Tried a lot of different fuel additives to calm down the knock. Thought i was babying the boat, but still fried a piston. Thrasher is working on a new engine for me. Will post specs when I get them. I didnt have a lot of luck finding turbo related sites.
As far as sound goes. It is almost too quiet for me at idle speeds, but it sounds good at cruising speeds and above. The turbos kicking in and out sound like something off of a James Bond movie!! HMMMM!!!

[Horsepowerchik]

heres my contribution..
A picture's worth a 1000 words so here
http://www.boatpart.com/turboschiada%20009.jpg
http://www.boatpart.com/turboschiada%20006.jpg
Thats a sweet twin turbo
HPCHIK

[78DiMarco]

The guys are right, Gale Banks won't help with anything from his old marine motors. I have one of his motors in my boat that I have the original booklet showing the plumbing diagrams and another booklet that shows the different motor configuations you could order back in 1978.
I see the water temp rise when I stand on it for a bit. About 2 years ago I torched it and rebuilt the motor after that. I started with a new block and I also went with a full roller setup. I changed the cam spec's and lowered the compression a little to try and reduce the need for 95 octane fuel. I went from 9 pounds of boost to about 12 pounds a WOT by changing the cam, but I don't get the detonation I use to on premium gas. I would of thought that my boost would have dropped by a couple of pounds but just the opposite occured. I run a fairly good size oil cooler and the oil temp stays around 190 unless I'm on it and it is real hot out (like at Parker in August), then maybe 210-220. The water temp runs at around 160 degrees when cruising and will jump up to 185 or so after a blast. It's a real kick in the ass when the turbo's come up.
If you have any interest in the diagrams I have let me know and I will be happy to copy them and send them to you. It may help in setting it up. It shows the water and oil line routing.
BG

[flat broke]

HPChick,
Thanks for the pics! Not that I was really worried about it, but that shows a good way to setup the dual carb linkage should I ever want to go that route. I noticed that it looks like the owner is also boost referncing the carbs to the manifold right below the intercooler. Anyone have any thoughts on whether or not that's really needed? If anyone else has pics of turbo setups, post em up. This is as good of place as any and I can never get enough of em :)
HPChick,
you don't happen to know the owner of that boat do ya?
Chris

[Horsepowerchik]

flat broke:
HPChick,
HPChick,
you don't happen to know the owner of that boat do ya?
ChrisSure do. Its a good friend of mine. Im sellin for him..Why?
HPCHIK

[HeavyHitter]

EFI is so much easier to set up.
http://home.earthlink.net/~wstoss/_uimages/2turbohemi.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~wstoss/_uimages/cheetah5.jpg
I just happen to have a used system off another boat.

[MikeF]

DAMN!! :D

[Clown]

I must admitd I'm an asshole !
I through two complete gale Banks Twin turbo setups
IN THE GARBAGE just because of that guy not wanting to give any info on that stuff it's like he knew that it was BAD!
P.S. thats a nice setup you have there. :D

[flat broke]

Heavy Hitter,
Your setup is SICK!!!!! I'm new to turbos but I was contemplating the difficulty and expense of setting up my current setup to blow through an Eddlebrock multiport system with the intercooler setup right on top of the throtlebody. The only problem is probably the fact that the injectors and throttlebody on that setup are just a tad too small wink If you don't mind me askin, how much HP are you pulling out of your mill? would you be opposed to emailing me the specifics?
Thanks in advance,
Chris

[MikeF]

MikeF:
DAMN!! :D Beauty and brains! I like it! :D

[SPECTRABRENT]

Chris,
Is the motor & turbos in the boat?
If so, I want to see a picture.
Brent

[flat broke]

C'mon Brent, how could I have run the setup at Elsinore last week, if they weren't installed? :) I'm just givin ya a hard time. I haven't snapped any pics yet, but I can take care of it. Let me get the oil cooler plumbed in so everything is all cleaned up and then I'll have you some pics. I'll probably be able to get you some of the boat in the water too :)
Talk to you later,
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

I figured you would have to take the motor out to
install the oil cooler.
Are you running a 14 quart pan?
Sorry,
Brent

[flat broke]

No prob Brent, I was just messin with ya a bit. I'm running an Olson 12 qt pan. Im not going for the Olson block mount cooler because I want a thermostat equiped unit. Luckily I can get to everything I need to without pulling the mill. Not a picnic but doable. We had the motor out last week to put the new pan in with the bungs for the oil drains off the turbos.
I'll get you some pics this week/weekend,
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

I look forward to seeing the pictures.
Brent

[spectras only]

Brent , the turbo Chris is putting in his boat wasn't yours? Why didn't you keep it ,it would have been perfect for the 24 XS ,don't you think? I've tried a 13X13 prop saturday ,the RPM went up to 54oo from 5150, but no speed gain.I'm going to try a 13X16 next.If that doesn't help I'll try a progressive pitch prop next.I'm still waiting for someone to chime in with some figures on a 24 with the best prop wink

[SPECTRABRENT]

No Turbos for me, I will go with 540 Chevy & one 1050 Dominator.
I dont think Chris is using the Gale Banks setup off my boat.
Brent
Brent

[HeavyHitter]

Chris, the hemi won't quite run on pump gas. Allied Signal stopped making thier big wastegate several years ago. The biggest I could get was Turbonetic Race Gates so the boost runs away a bit. Goal was to make 1000+ hp on pump gas with a realativly small engine at 528 inches. Made 1124 with the boost turned down all the way. Initial pressure is 8 psi but climbs to 12 by 6000 rpm. Does make over 1000 hp from 5000 rpm on up. Made 1000+ ft-lbs from 4000 to 5600 rpm. Need to run 1/4 tank of AV gas to keep it happy. Could back the timing up a bit but I hate to torture exhaust valves. Big butterflies for blow through systems aren't important as long as they are at least the size of the turbo outlet.
biggest thing to remember about EFI is injector size and MAP (manifold air pressure) sensor. If the bos can't adjust for different MAP sensors you're stuck cheating by using a nonlinear fuel regulator. The problem with them is that fuel pumps don't like living at 80+ psi pressure for very long before they fail. To keep fuel pressure reasonable you want to size them at 90% duty cycle. Rule of thumb is you need .5 lbs/hour-horsepower. so if you want o make 1000 hp you need at least 550 lbs/hr. but the turbos take some energy to run as well so that number climbs. The Hemi has 95 lb/hr injectors in it. :D
vdrivenman, good place to start with a pump gas engine is a set of T-4s with H- trim compressors. They'll make a nice 800+ hp on pump gas if the intercooler is efficient enough to keep the intake are below 130 degrees. Key is to match the engine size and rpm to keep the turbo in the 70%+ efficiency range so you don't make much heat compressing the intake charge.
Brent, I can get you 2000+ hp out of a 540 eek! as long as you buy 114 octane fuel. That will put a permanent smile on your face.
Good luck guys, and have fun,
Wally

[flat broke]

Heavy Hitter,
Thanks for the info on your setup. I can't go to anything that sophisticated yet, but it never hurts to start planning early :) I just noticed you have a Distributorless ignition setup on your Hemi as well. Is your computer an automotive setup? Either way it looks absolutely awesome and I'm sure it runs like a bat out of hell.
Chris

[HeavyHitter]

Chris, it's an Electromotive TEC II. Works well in marine applications. Easy to program. Not terribly expensive especially if you haven't bought killer ignition parts yet. It never hurts to plan ahead.
Have fun,
Wally

[Clown]

Heavy hitter
Do you run an intercooler on your setup?
And whats the reason behind the Two T.P.S . eek!

[flat broke]

Brent,
As promised, a pic of the turbo setup in the 20.
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Gearhead_Garage/Motors_and_Drives/Spectraturbo1.JPG
Ideally I'd love to set the long block up specifically to run the setup but with multiport FI instead of the dual carbs that most guys go with. Time and money. Up until last week at least I had the time. :)
Brent,
The feeling of the boost hit is f'n nice. If you've ever ridden a two stroke before then imagine the hit in the powerband but it builds a little slower and pulls with a more visceral feeling :) You'll definitely want more after you've had a little taste. Since the 24 is taking longer than anticipated, perhaps you should find someone that could hook up your 540 with a nice setup. Then when you hit the water this spring, you'll be haulin the bacon in the 24. :)
Chris

[SPECTRABRENT]

Chris,
Is that the setup that was posted on the Spectra site?
I really like that turbo setup.
Brent

[HeavyHitter]

Clown, I just use one of the TPS's. Came with the 75mm Ford butterflies so I've got a spare is the one ever goes bad.
Chris, the set up looks nice. Don't see any waste gates? What kind of boost does that thing get to?
Wally

[HeavyHitter]

OOPS, forgot the first question. Yes the intercooler is in the plenum (purple box) on top of the tunnel ram.

[flat broke]

Hitter,
The system will pull over 10lbs if I keep my foot in it that long. More carb/fuel would probably let the little devils spool up even more. Now for the good news. I want to build a setup that has adapter flanges below the turbos to install wastegates should the need arise. I also want to put this on top of say a well built 502/509/540. From what I've been told, its debateable running the turbos I have (RayJay 375 E10) on something much larger.
When will all of this happen? Well I need to buy some more important things like a house and some expensive jewelry first, but at least that gives me plenty of time to plan out a nice setup for when the money is around to pay for it. :)
Chris

[obnoxious001]

Almost hate to admit to it, but I worked for Banks in the late 70's. I also built engines for GT Performance, and have a pretty good idea what it takes to keep a turbo engine together. My 505 cu in Gentry engine is for sale if somebody really wants to go fast. It came out of my ski race Schiada when I sold it, and needs a good home. With adequate water pickups, you should be able to run it over 5000 rpm for as long as you have gas in the tank!
http://free.***boat.net/gallery/Gearhead_Garage/Motors_and_Drives/001_engine.JPG
[ October 23, 2002, 09:30 PM: Message edited by: obnoxious001 ]