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OGShocker
04-12-2004, 02:44 PM
Is it true, did Sy file for protection under Chapter 11? They just stuck my buddy with nearly $90,000 in UNPAID invoices if it is. Will this effect thier customer service?
OG-------DO NOT KILL THE MESSENGER.

CARGUY
04-12-2004, 02:50 PM
Haven't heard of the chpt 11. I know when I bought my Commander in 2001 SY was having some tax problems which he told me was due to his accountant(when in doubt blame it on the accountant). It was a pretty big deal at the time, it even was in the public notice section of the Press Enterprise. I have since sold the Commander so it doesn't affect me, and hopefully it doesn't affect anyone else.

Kilrtoy
04-12-2004, 02:52 PM
THAT SUCKS if true:frown:

Phat Matt
04-12-2004, 03:33 PM
They are always busy when I'm down there so if it's true, where'd all the money go? I was thinking about getting their new deck boat after this season too so I hope they keep making them!

Ziggy
04-12-2004, 04:51 PM
I was just there Thursday, it looked far from being BK.

tool 'n' jet
04-12-2004, 05:32 PM
I hope it's true. Maybe someone else will buy the name and put together a quality boat again. I bought two commanders the last one was a 2001 26 Sig. I had to sell it after the first season. i think they put it together with bubblegum and duct tape.

THATJEFFGUY
04-12-2004, 11:38 PM
Maybe Sy just filed BK to dodge some of the lawsuits he's been threatened with !! He's gotta have some money stashed somwehere. He sure doesn't put in back into his manufacturing facility, nor does he spend it to hire quality employees !!

C-2
04-13-2004, 06:46 AM
Verified. Filed on 4/8/04, Chapter 11.
That sucks.
OGShocker...is your buddy named Mike?

Sandbar Mike
04-13-2004, 07:08 AM
Dam it, where are all those commander supporters now???:D
We need help

THATJEFFGUY
04-13-2004, 07:10 AM
Hey OG, I think their customer service has already been "affected"... for the last few years actually !
Like tool 'n' jet said, maybe someone new will come along and turn the company around. With some good experience, I think they could build a quality boat, AND good customer service...let's hope !!

THATJEFFGUY
04-13-2004, 07:18 AM
Yeah from the old "Commader bashing" threads, I can remember at least 4 or 5 loyal Sy/Commander lovers. Since they all believed in Sy so much, they should go help a bro out and give him the cash he needs ! C'mon guys where are you ?? Don't leave Sy hanging...he needs help and there are only a few that give a shit !! Hell, maybe I should go over and make Sy an attractive offer on the place and start building "real" boats myself ! So does this mean Steve S. will actually have go out and get a "real" job, and work for his money ??

OGShocker
04-13-2004, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by C-2
Verified. Filed on 4/8/04, Chapter 11.
That sucks.
OGShocker...is your buddy named Mike?
No, I might let you guys know who.... but for now it might be best if names were left out of this.

welk2party
04-13-2004, 07:59 AM
Chapter 11 is a reorganization and not a complete wipeout. Part of this deal usually involves a court appointed payment over a certain time frame while they continue to do business. Problem is they can no longer use credit to operate. Cash only. So if they were bad with cash once then you wonder what happens next.

OGShocker
04-13-2004, 08:04 AM
Any monies paid to vendors in the past 90 days MUST be returned to Commander as part of Chapter 11 rulles.. THAT SUCKs!

hd&boatrider
04-13-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by THATJEFFGUY
Yeah from the old "Commader bashing" threads, I can remember at least 4 or 5 loyal Sy/Commander lovers. Since they all believed in Sy so much, they should go help a bro out and give him the cash he needs ! C'mon guys where are you ?? Don't leave Sy hanging...he needs help and there are only a few that give a shit !! Hell, maybe I should go over and make Sy an attractive offer on the place and start building "real" boats myself ! So does this mean Steve S. will actually have go out and get a "real" job, and work for his money ??
I was one of them. My Commander was kept up very well by myself and I was happy with the preformance and so forth. It still turned heads at 300 hours. By the way, I don't intend to "give him the cash he needs".
TJG: You actually sound kind of bitter about Commander. Sorry that you had a bad experience. I am assuming you did have a bad experience that went unsettled.
If you can make a better boat have at it. Good luck with your business venture.
I am now in a Shockwave and am also happy with that. To each his own.

Phat Matt
04-13-2004, 09:32 AM
I have a Commander and Sy has always been very good to me. I had some minor problems with my boat at first but they took care of everything. I have had more problems with my competitive trailer but I took it back to Commander and they had it shipped out and rebuilt after a year. And who cares if Steve has to get a real job to work for his money? Are you telling me you would flip burgers if you had an easier means of making money? That's like all the people who say they will keep their job and their life won't change after they win the lottery. I wish I could do as little work and possible and make great money. It's the American way!

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
04-13-2004, 09:55 AM
oooo boy this is interesting :cool:

Kachina26
04-13-2004, 10:09 AM
Off topic here, hey Shake, what's the name of that pizza place that will deliver down in the channel?

PlyaPlya22
04-13-2004, 10:13 AM
Papa Leoni's

kcm21
04-13-2004, 10:30 AM
I hope the company goes belly up and sy ends up in jail!
After buying a 21' from them and getting screwed by the sales guy that promised me everything under the sun ( hey I was 22 and didn't know any better). Two years later I actually went back to them and dealt directly with Sy. Traded my old boat in and bought a 24 from them. The girls in the front office told me not to trust a thing that Steve said and that he will tell you anything to get you out the door and he does not stand behind anything he says, which I now know to be true. Everything was cool with the new boat they handled everything pretty good.........oh that's right except for the fact they did not pay off my old boat! So my credit report showed that I owned 2 boats and was eyeball deep in debt to a 10 foot Indian. This went on for 7 months. I called Sy on it and he said that sometimes they do not payoff the boat so that they can get top dollar for it?????? And that unfortuantely Steve had not made that clear to me when I bought the new boat. After threating letters from my lawyer he sold the boat to somebody. Then Commander proceeded to not pay my next payments, after they had given up possession of the boat, and so I had the finance company beating down my door threating to take the boat that I no longer had and screw my credit. So I had someone I did not even know driving a boat around that technically I owned! I just got a call three days ago from the new finance company saying that it was finally paid off and out of my name, 8 months later!
The worst part is that I had a very close friend actually go to the boat show this last weekend and almost buy a Commander from Sy! He said he was giving them "a break on the price because I referred them!" I almost had to kill my friend cause he actually believed Sy. I will never buy a Commander again and I would strongly reccomend that nobody else even waste their time or money by looking at them. They are the Bayliner of performance boats!
:yuk:

hd&boatrider
04-13-2004, 10:44 AM
If that happened to me I would be pissed also :( So, you still have your Commander? I hope it is running well for you. Which model did you end up with anyhow?
Originally posted by kcm21
I hope the company goes belly up and sy ends up in jail!
After buying a 21' from them and getting screwed by the sales guy that promised me everything under the sun ( hey I was 22 and didn't know any better). Two years later I actually went back to them and dealt directly with Sy. Traded my old boat in and bought a 24 from them. The girls in the front office told me not to trust a thing that Steve said and that he will tell you anything to get you out the door and he does not stand behind anything he says, which I now know to be true. Everything was cool with the new boat they handled everything pretty good.........oh that's right except for the fact they did not pay off my old boat! So my credit report showed that I owned 2 boats and was eyeball deep in debt to a 10 foot Indian. This went on for 7 months. I called Sy on it and he said that sometimes they do not payoff the boat so that they can get top dollar for it?????? And that unfortuantely Steve had not made that clear to me when I bought the new boat. After threating letters from my lawyer he sold the boat to somebody. Then Commander proceeded to not pay my next payments, after they had given up possession of the boat, and so I had the finance company beating down my door threating to take the boat that I no longer had and screw my credit. So I had someone I did not even know driving a boat around that technically I owned! I just got a call three days ago from the new finance company saying that it was finally paid off and out of my name, 8 months later!
The worst part is that I had a very close friend actually go to the boat show this last weekend and almost buy a Commander from Sy! He said he was giving them "a break on the price because I referred them!" I almost had to kill my friend cause he actually believed Sy. I will never buy a Commander again and I would strongly reccomend that nobody else even waste their time or money by looking at them. They are the Bayliner of performance boats!
:yuk:

OGShocker
04-13-2004, 10:44 AM
Popcorn Time!:cool: Anyone want a beer?

Phat Matt
04-13-2004, 10:47 AM
WOW, I had no idea I owned a Bayliner. I feel so screwed now. :D Well, I'll be back out in Havasu in 2 weeks with a cooler full of drinks so look me up! I'll be the one in the performance Bayliner! :D

hd&boatrider
04-13-2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by OGShocker
Popcorn Time!:cool: Anyone want a beer?
If it happened the way he described his situation he has every right to be pissed.
Just for the record....I sent an em to Sy with a link to this post. I don't know if he will respond or not but thought I would let him know.

HighRoller
04-13-2004, 10:59 AM
Just because they appear to be busy doesn't mean a thing. Bankruptcy isn't about what's coming in, it's about how you manage it. Sounds like Sy is going to use this BK to shield himself from all of his creditors while he continues to stuff money in his pockets.

HavasuDreamin'
04-13-2004, 11:05 AM
Was it just me, or did anyone else fall out of their chair when reading the article in this month's ***boat Magazine about the guy from back east who looked at numerous boats before finally deciding on traveling west and purchasing a big dollar Commander Cat? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/1/confused17.gif
I did one of these http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/ubb/graemlins/headscratch.gif after reading that. ;)
And yes Glastronguy........***boat has a magazine. :p

hd&boatrider
04-13-2004, 11:09 AM
I saw that and what I thought was "good for Commander". Remember, if the boat that a person has fits their needs and they are happy with it then that is the most important thing.
Originally posted by HavasuDreamin'
Was it just me, or did anyone else fall out of their chair when reading the article in this month's ***boat Magazine about the guy from back east who looked at numerous boats before finally deciding on traveling west and purchasing a big dollar Commander Cat? http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies/confused/1/confused17.gif
I did one of these http://www.riverratlife.com/forums/board/ubb/graemlins/headscratch.gif after reading that. ;)
And yes Glastronguy........***boat has a magazine. :p

OGShocker
04-13-2004, 11:10 AM
Originally posted by HavasuDreamin'
And yes Glastronguy........***boat has a magazine. :p
LMAO
But, does Rex have a Catalog?

AleAlchemist
04-13-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by HighRoller
Just because they appear to be busy doesn't mean a thing. Bankruptcy isn't about what's coming in, it's about how you manage it. Sounds like Sy is going to use this BK to shield himself from all of his creditors while he continues to stuff money in his pockets.
Happens All the time! :D
The Only difference is that the name might go to Commander Performance, or some other spin!
as far as the product, the lay up in this industry isn't that much different.
The real value is in the Finish, and Customer Service.
I dont like to rag on a boat I've never ridden in, its tough to ignore all the bashing that goes on in this place.
Especially when its from customers!

PlyaPlya22
04-13-2004, 11:14 AM
I use to work for the BK Courts in Riverside County and a lot of business owneres use a Chpt 11 to right the ship. Hopefully Sy realized there was a problem and this will help him get it corrected. We'll just have to wait and see:confused: :confused:

kcm21
04-13-2004, 11:41 AM
Phatt Matt: No offense I still own a "Bayliner" also! :D it hasn't been that bad of a boat, I am just bitter from how they screwed me, and yes HD it did happen just the way I said it did. Good thing I did not need to buy anything on credit! I think the best stories I have about that place is when I was buying my first boat I was looking over it and talking with the service manager and the service manager got a call saying that they forgot to bolt down a customers spare "custom" tire and rim and it bounced off on there way home on the freeway!
And when I picked up my new boat and the bolster seats they put in were too long and would not fold down........and then while I was out on the lake for my first time and tried to open the engine hatch the power rod extended part way up and then lost grip and slid out from the ground. Turns out that there are a couple spots on the motor that you need to bolt down to the hull!
I think he has the same policy as McDonalds.......they do not discriminate against the mentally challenged in there hiring process.
Oh and HD it is a 24 signature

rivercrazy
04-13-2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by AleAlchemist
as far as the product, the lay up in this industry isn't that much different.
All manufacturers use some glass and resin in their boats yes. But I don't agree that there aren't significant differences in layup. Some use more expensive and exotic materials, better higher strength resins, and the execution of the layup is what sets builders apart!

1stepcloser
04-13-2004, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by OGShocker
LMAO
But, does Rex have a Catalog?
LMAO :D Sure does! (http://www.rexmar.com/productindexfull.htm) ;)
:cool:

Dr. Eagle
04-13-2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by OGShocker
LMAO
But, does Rex have a Catalog?
UNKNOWN.........
I haven't received one for some time.......:D

SCLB41
04-13-2004, 01:39 PM
That sucks, the fact that they are right off the freeway probably brings in a lot of lookie loo's. I have no experience with Commander, but good luck to all you current owners. I looked at them before i bought my Shockwave.
This is interesting especially after they featured that east coast Commander owner in ***boat.

Ziggy
04-13-2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by PlyaPlya22
I use to work for the BK Courts in Riverside County and a lot of business owneres use a Chpt 11 to right the ship. Hopefully Sy realized there was a problem and this will help him get it corrected. We'll just have to wait and see:confused: :confused:
Not uncommon for a biz to use Chpt. 11 for that manner at all. Sy has always treated me well so I can't say anything negative from my experiences but others may not have had the same experience. In fact he seems to go out of his way to come over to greet me and shake hands.
Could it be possible that this is Sy's last resort after attempting to right the wrongs of the alleged bad accounting job a few years back???:confused: Just an outloud thought.
Commander seems to need help in the customer service arena because both the boats I've had from them have been built well and finished well.

Froggystyle
04-13-2004, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
All manufacturers use some glass and resin in their boats yes. But I don't agree that there aren't significant differences in layup. Some use more expensive and exotic materials, better higher strength resins, and the execution of the layup is what sets builders apart!
For now....

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
04-13-2004, 04:15 PM
:confused: mmmmm this is interesting

RP1
04-13-2004, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by Froggystyle
For now....
How are things progressing Wes?

ahhell
04-13-2004, 04:40 PM
Sounds like all the Commander bashing is about getting screwed in the show room by sly Sy. hope all works well with mine:eek: So far fit, finish and style are all there. bought mine from a guy that was on his third one and that Commander was the only way to go ...stay tuned

tool 'n' jet
04-13-2004, 05:30 PM
When I traded my first boat in to commander they failed to pay it off too. I had to keep making payments on it. Then when I picked up my new boat Sy had to give me a check for the payments I made. I hope he ends up in JAIL or DEPORTED.

jbtrailerjim
04-13-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by tool 'n' jet
When I traded my first boat in to commander they failed to pay it off too. I had to keep making payments on it. Then when I picked up my new boat Sy had to give me a check for the payments I made. I hope he ends up in JAIL or DEPORTED.
Wow, This Sy sure seem's like a real stand up kinda guy.:rolleyes: Glad I never considered buying a Commander. If this is how he has alway's ran his business it's a wonder he's stayed around this long

BUSTI
04-13-2004, 06:05 PM
Some time last year I posted up a comment on how bad, as a general rule, from a business stand point the owner operators of the California performance boating industry were. I was highly flamed for that view. Look most of the west coast performance mfgs. all though owned by very nice art working craftsman are seriously lacking in sound business skills. I have done business with many of these guys on a personal level and I don't mean just as a customer buying a boat...but non boating transactions, and their lack of sophistication business wise would amaze you.
There are some very big boating companies on the west coast that are no strangers to BK over the years and the list would shock you! I am not making a character judgement here just telling it like it is. Trust me there isn't one west coast builder/owner/ceo that will threaten the CEO of IBM for his job very soon!
Be a prudent buyer, do your homework, and hope for the best.
It is a tuff business to make money in. Now you know why Mercury Marine has all these guys on cash and carry. As a rule they are mostly honest but because it is so hard to make money many of them find a lack of cash a huge issue for them to run a business with sustainibilty and service at constant high levels.

SoCalOffshore
04-13-2004, 09:18 PM
I went there with my cousin and within 1 minute you could see the difference in quality of their boats vs the competition. Things didn't line up, poor construction quality and such. Although, they looked great from the freeway. :D

RiverPirate
04-13-2004, 11:04 PM
I have two friends that have said "The worse thing I ever did was buy a Comander". That was right from the horses mouth. One escaped with a quick sale and the other one still regrets his purchase. Buyer beware........

SHAKE-YO-AZZ
04-14-2004, 08:36 AM
Can we all just get a long :D :cool:

hd&boatrider
04-14-2004, 09:11 AM
Sy posted a response here:
http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=44435
Probably best if you post comments in one place.