need help EFI or carbs...!!!

[steve0123]

OK,
here's the deal, do any of the new EFI systems work with blower motors? can I retrofit an EFI system on a motor that orignally had twin carbs? What am I giving up? gaining? can they adjust to altitude changes, and does anyone have very much experience with a EFI blower motor?
thanks for any info.
Stu

[DogHouse]

Yes, EFI can be used successfully with virtually any motor and provide near perfect a/f ratio under all load, rpm, and atmospheric conditions, even on radically cammed or boosted engines. However, they do require some time to setup because there are many parameters that must be tuned for your custom engine to run correctly all the time. You or your tuner will need to become very familiar with programming whichever ECU you decide on and will spend a solid day or two on the dyno ironing out the basic fuel map. From there plan on some on-water sessions to sort out driveability issues such as in/out gear idle settings, acceleration enrichments, temperature enrichments, etc. It's a lot of work but when you're done you can have an engine that runs nearly perfect all the time. I'm using the Electromotive (http://www.electromotive-inc.com) stuff in my boat.
-brian

[DogHouse]

Forgot to mention that Kuhl (http://www.kuhlsuperchargers.com) (among others?) makes an EFI blower manifold with the injector bungs all ready to go. You could use a pair of 1000 cfm throttle bodies in place of your carbs, or 2000 cfm dominator flange throttle bodies if you want some serious flow! Or, Kuhl has a pretty slick unit that looks like a normal blower scoop with the three butterflies and houses a K&N inside. You can get fuel rail stock to cut and drill for your manifold, or you could get some made up by a shop like Force EFI (http://www.force-efi.com). Force also has the best prices by far on the four barrel style throttle bodies. Injector pricing really varies. I ended up mail ordering from Racetronix (http://www.racetronix.com) and got a set of 8 Delphi (manufacturer of MSD and Holley among others) injectors, 75 lb/hr, for 460 bucks. That's way cheaper than Summit or Jegs. You might need slightly larger depending on how much power you make with the blower.
-brian

[Unchained]

steve0123:
OK,
here's the deal, do any of the new EFI systems work with blower motors? [Yes].
can I retrofit an EFI system on a motor that orignally had twin carbs? [Yes].
What am I giving up? [Nostalgia].
gaining? [Precision and adjustability].
can they adjust to altitude changes,[Yes]
and does anyone have very much experience with a EFI blower motor?[Just a few of us]
thanks for any info.
Stu In my opinion it will all be EFI in a matter of a few years. Carbs and mechanical fuel inj systems are primitive.
However at this point the choices in EFI systems are either,
Expensive bolt on EFI systems in the 7k range,
or
Do it yourself systems in the 3k range that require a lot of user know how.
I did the do it yourself system and now that I know how to set it up I know that it is the best way to go, but I spent some time learning it and am still learning.
If you have a lot of patience and like a challenge the EFI is great and will work with NA, Blown, or Turboed.
Here's mine,
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/504/220DSC02018-med.JPG

[steve0123]

let me use a more specific example, a Teague 800 EFI vs carbed 800 set up by Teague...? opinions, experience please

[DogHouse]

What's the question?

[mbrown2]

So is the question, should you go with the Teague 800 carb? or the 800 EFI?
I think there is more dif between the two than just EFI....I think the 800 EFI is based on the 3.3Ltr Whipple with EFI, and the 800 Carb is based on the 10/71 with Carbs...From dialogue on this forum in the past, it has been stated by several knowledgeable folks that the Whipple is a more efficient S/C than the roots setup, and the you just can beat a properly dialed in EFI setup...I had the Whipple 502/EFI and I thought it was responsive, great power delivery, and great idling around the docks...

[steve0123]

The question is between the Teague 800 EFI or carbs. I have a carbed verrsion now and am considering retrofitting it to the EFI version. I'm not sure if it's possible, wise or if I should just drop in a different motor altogether. Mainly I'm tired of fouling plugs and having the transom covered in black...

[Dr. Eagle]

steve0123:
The question is between the Teague 800 EFI or carbs. I have a carbed verrsion now and am considering retrofitting it to the EFI version. I'm not sure if it's possible, wise or if I should just drop in a different motor altogether. Mainly I'm tired of fouling plugs and having the transom covered in black... While I never had the scratch for a pair of Teague motors, I will say that my Eliminator with 502 Mag MPIs ran like a top. And when I went to Tahoe (El 6200 ft.) from near sea level the engines retuned themselves in a matter of minutes to the new conditions so no fouled plugs and no black transom. I was suspicious of EFI at first, but now that I have sold the Eliminator and gotten a smaller Ultra with a carbed package, I am going to retrofit it with at least throttle body EFI.

[DogHouse]

steve0123:
The question is between the Teague 800 EFI or carbs. I have a carbed verrsion now and am considering retrofitting it to the EFI version. I'm not sure if it's possible, wise or if I should just drop in a different motor altogether. Mainly I'm tired of fouling plugs and having the transom covered in black... In that case the answer is yes, it can be done, using the parts described in the earlier posts, i.e. efi blower manifold (or drill yours and weld in the injector bungs), injectors, fuel rails, throttle bodies, and ECU. Expect to spend somewhere in the neighborhood of $5k (or more depending on which ECU you go with) by the time you're done and dyno'd. There's nothing wrong with the idea of retrofitting your existing motor as long as you like the motor and power level to start with. If you're going to make a bunch of other changes while you're in there then yeah, mabye selling and buying a whole new package would make more sense. 'Tis up to you!
ps: Here are a couple pics of Kuhl's EFI stuff for blowers. As you can see, they have two options, one with a full port sequential manifold, and one with a top hat arrangement for the injectors. Nice stuff...
http://www.kuhlsuperchargers.com/images/pic%20p14a/efi_kit.jpg
http://www.kuhlsuperchargers.com/images/pic%20p14a/efi_tall_a.jpg
http://www.kuhlsuperchargers.com/images/pic%20p14a/efi_tall_b.jpg
http://www.kuhlsuperchargers.com/images/pic%20p14a/efi_top_plate-hat.jpg
Force makes this little goodie (same idea as Kuhl's top hat setup, no special intake manifold required):
http://www.force-efi.com/pictures/bug34s.jpg
Or you could throw a couple of these in place of your carbs:
http://www.force-efi.com/pictures/tb10w.jpg
An example of the Force EFI blower conversion kit:
16 Injector System for engines from 700hp to 1100hp.
Polished bugcatcher
Injector Plate-polished
Fuel rails for 16 injectors - polished and anodized
16 injectors - to 1200 HP.
Billet Fuel pressure regulator
AN lines and fittings
2 Billet Fuel pumps
2 Billet fuel filters (EFI)
Pre-programmed SpeedPro bank to bank ECU w/ wideband O2 (Programmable)
Custom harness
All sensors, software, interface cable, diagrams and instructions. $5650.00
Custom configurations available. Call for Details
Here's a shot of the Electromotive stuff that I run:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/31307_07_03_Download_025-med.jpg

[Jrocket]

steve0123:
The question is between the Teague 800 EFI or carbs. I have a carbed verrsion now and am considering retrofitting it to the EFI version. I'm not sure if it's possible, wise or if I should just drop in a different motor altogether. Mainly I'm tired of fouling plugs and having the transom covered in black... You can either have the carbs jetted properly or if you want to spend the money,pu the EFI on it.I would change to EFI.
I would call Gary at GT Performance and have him tell you what will need to be done.He's very good with the EFI stuff,also Dustin at Whipple might be helpful.

[Dave C]

There are a lot of EFI upgrades available.
I have been checking into it. For a N/A EFI, call Gary @ GT or AZ Speed and Marine.
for a blower EFI call Dustin @ whipple.

[steve0123]

Thanks guys,
It seems like everyone is pretty much in favor of the EFI setup. Well there goes another thousand, great!

[mickeyfinn]

If you figure out how to do it for just a thousand let us all know how you did it...
:D

[Unchained]

Of all the EFI systems available the best setup is having the injectors as close to the cylinder as possible to eliminate fuel settling out at low rpm.
Here's some good general info on EFI systems,
http://members.shaw.ca/megasquirt/manual/minj.htm

[Terrible Buddhist]

I just bought the tec3 for my truck with a kick ass tuned port injection set up...how hard was that to set up...any advice on the crank trigger (that is the part I am least looking forward to frown

[DogHouse]

Terrible Buddhist:
I just bought the tec3 for my truck with a kick ass tuned port injection set up...how hard was that to set up...any advice on the crank trigger (that is the part I am least looking forward to :( Crank trigger was pretty easy on the BBC with the supplied mounting hardware. Just followed the instructions and set the motor to TDC, aligned the trailing edge of the 11th tooth following the gap with the middle of the sensor, adjusted the gap to about 0.050", and tightened up the bolts. I did have to machine about 0.100" off the mount because I run an aluminum timing cover and the alignment was off because of the thickness of the cover. Once you get the alignment right it's pretty foolproof. I will say that my TECIII crank trigger circuit is sensitive to battery voltage. I had a starter that was going bad along with a weak battery. Result was low voltage while cranking (10v or less) and that caused the crank trigger signal to drop out and the engine wouldn't start.
[ October 18, 2003, 03:02 PM: Message edited by: DogHouse ]

[DogHouse]

So what is the final verdict? EFI or no EFI, that is the question...
;)

[Dave C]

Dog,
What fuel pump are you using with your system??
Thanks

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Dave C
Dog,
What fuel pump are you using with your system??
Thanks
It's an Aeromotive, forget exactly which model, but it's red and one of the smaller ones, only has -10 in & out!