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rivercrazy
12-24-2001, 04:14 PM
Is a Liberator a splash or its own unique creation. The 21' looks like a splash of an Eliminator Daytona to me.

racingrascal
12-24-2001, 05:59 PM
It is.
Andy

dcb4life
12-24-2001, 07:52 PM
The Liberator 21 foot hull is a splash of a the Eliminator 21 daytona. But for the price difference, I'd buy the Liberator. Eliminators are over priced, so if you can get the same hull for a cheaper price, do it.

HammerDown
12-25-2001, 07:40 AM
Sorry to say I disagree,though a nice boat, when side by side there are difference's at least with the ones I've seen....the sides were wavey,thinner,the seats were so-so,and the Lib. had no stringers.Seems to me it like a Lamborghini kit car or the real deal.However a nice looking boat.What would be the price difference? How about resale value? Would the bottom be an exact copy? Even so there's more to the total package than the bottom...Just my way of thinking.

racingrascal
12-25-2001, 11:08 AM
Hammerdown I think they are just talking about the bottom, but you are very right. Are you looking for the splash or the real quality deal.
Andy

HammerDown
12-25-2001, 01:25 PM
Hey, hope I didnt go overboard with this topic.A friend of mine owns a Lib. very nice looking boat.Would I own one...hell yea.I just dont think your comparing apples to apples! One thing thats nice about the Lib...it has a little more freeboard.

HBjet
12-25-2001, 04:30 PM
What about Cougars 21' MTR. Those sure look just like the Eliminator 21' Daytona (older model) and the Liberator
HB"Splash Police"jet

Jetboatguru
12-25-2001, 04:37 PM
HBjet has done some serious sleuthing!!!!!!!!

HavasuBarney
12-25-2001, 05:49 PM
Liberator's 21ft began life as a splash, but the tooling has changed substantially over the years. Bottom deck has deeper tunnels, 6" more freeboard.
Liberators come with, without stringers or even 1/2 stringers. Decks are flat and smooth. Seats are made with all alum frames, no wood.
Cougar's hull is completely different, is not really close to either Eliminators or Liberator.
I'll be happy to match up a new Liberator against any of these boats in a quality side by side test.

HBjet
12-27-2001, 01:06 AM
Originally posted by HavasuBarney:
Liberator's 21ft began life as a splash, but the tooling has changed substantially over the years. Bottom deck has deeper tunnels, 6" more freeboard.
Liberators come with, without stringers or even 1/2 stringers. Decks are flat and smooth. Seats are made with all alum frames, no wood.
Cougar's hull is completely different, is not really close to either Eliminators or Liberator.
I'll be happy to match up a new Liberator against any of these boats in a quality side by side test.
HavasuBarney, what I was saying is the Liberator hull which you said began as a splash is like the cougar 21' MTR and older Eliminator 21' Daytona.
By looking at this picture, it is clear that more freeboard was added and the top modified for the change.
http://www.havasubarney.com/gallery/albums/album01/Image007.sized.jpg
The boat on the right, the older boat is just like an Eliminator.
Like this 21' Daytona.
http://images.traderonline.com/img/6/dealer/747931/1534781_1.jpg
http://images.traderonline.com/img/6/dealer/747931/1534781_3.jpg
HBjet
[This message has been edited by HBjet (edited December 27, 2001).]

HavasuBarney
12-27-2001, 01:27 AM
Actually I raised the back on the white boat about two inches also.
But you are correct there.
You can also see on the Eliminator and on the Liberator, the hull gets wider at the front similar to a hydro, Cougar does not have that flare, the width remains constant.
[This message has been edited by HavasuBarney (edited December 27, 2001).]

JETBOAT BRIAN
12-27-2001, 03:05 AM
Wondering where the Edge 21 Phantom fits in in splash world? Looks like Eliminator,Liberator and Cougar all rolled into one!!!!!That could be a good thing
!!!!! http://wsphotofews.excite.com/002/Pb/b8/cY/Rn54891.jpg
[This message has been edited by JETBOAT BRIAN (edited December 27, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JETBOAT BRIAN (edited December 27, 2001).]
[This message has been edited by JETBOAT BRIAN (edited December 27, 2001).]

rivercrazy
12-27-2001, 08:59 AM
I think that is splash of the original Eliminator also.
From a construction standpoint, is there any disadvantage of not having full length stringers in a tunnel hull? Conventional wisdom on v-bottoms is they are highly desired for many reasons (rigidity, straiter bottom, less stress cracks, more solid ride with less vibration, etc, etc,). I would think that tunnels would benefit the same way v-bottoms do. Most v-bottoms distort at really high speeds causing handling problems.

rivercrazy
12-27-2001, 08:59 AM
without the stringers of course

HavasuBarney
12-27-2001, 11:36 AM
It's actually the shape of the bottom that provides the strength.
Stringers add rigidity and a surface to bolt to.
Dis-advantage is lack of material to boly "stuff" to.
A boat that "flexes" is faster and takes less stress damage.

WILDMAN
12-27-2001, 06:12 PM
mY 21 lIBERATOR HAS TWIN 260'S AND NO STRINGERS. IT RUNS 124 AND GETS RUN HARD AND DOES'NT HAVE A SINGLE STRESS CRACK ANYWHERE. WORKS FOR ME. LIBERATORS ALWAYS SEEM TO BE FASTER THAN SIMILARLY POWERED ELIMINATORS. I STILL LIKE ELIMINATORS FIT AND FINISH THOUGH.

rivercrazy
12-28-2001, 09:08 AM
I would think that flex would be a dangerous thing at high speeds. But again, I know more about v's than tunnels.

Boatjob
12-28-2001, 11:02 PM
I've looked at Liberators and I think for the price they are, they are well worth it. They seem to be built pretty well and only have minor flaws like most other custom boats. And another thing is that they haul ass!!!!

737jetmech
01-08-2002, 06:11 AM
I have a 1996 21 Liberator 260 h.p. with 50 hours on it.There are several stress cracks on the forward section boat.I also had to re-glass most of the inter structure where the wood frame attached to hull.This seems to indicate that the hull has been flexing more than it should.The boat is very light weight and performs well but I feel they should use more glass during construction on the bow hull area.Boat may have been run hard by prev. owner in less than smooth water?Boats o.k. now after repair but I do random inspections just to give peace of mind at 92 m.p.h.

Blown509Liberator
01-08-2002, 10:31 AM
I have a 1999 with a 850hp running 96 mph and will see even more speed this summer . I have not had any problems with the hull I have a wave runner hit me mid ship when it was 6 mo old the wave runner hull was in pieses and the liberator had more cosmetic damage then structural damage. MikeW

HavasuBarney
01-09-2002, 05:40 PM
Dave has also made a bunch of very light layups for particular customers, the lighter hulls were made for smoother conditions.

mrpumpsHTM
01-09-2002, 06:10 PM
HAVASU BARNEY ....most of your quality manufactures make a hull to fit the customers needs .lighter for speed,heavier or thicker for rough water conditions,its a comnon practice.

737jetmech
01-10-2002, 12:23 AM
I must have one of the light layup boats.Sorry to hear things like happened to Blown Liberator. I hope none were injured.

Blown509Liberator
01-10-2002, 11:37 AM
No one was hurt. I was Right in front of the Infamous Blarney Island here on the Chain o Lakes (a "Must See" if you here in IL) so there was a ton of witnesses. This dope was sitting in the middle of a Major Through way here on Grass lake (Glass lake is all channeled off to "Save the water Lotus" and depth reasons) I saw this dork as he was looking down at the side of his boat and then hit the gas- never looking up. I was veering away, if I would have stay on course I would have run right over the top of him. I did not have the hammer down at the time, but was running about 50mph or so. The funny part was his argument was that I was going to fast. The water cop said I was on plane and he was not So he was to yield to me. Well after the $150 they took for the ticket, EPA hit him for clean up since his fuel cell was leaking into the lake. I am sure that was $2500+. All in all everything tuned out ok. There is a company in Antioch IL called Contour Fiberglass that does very good glass and Gel work.
MikeW
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited January 10, 2002).]