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VD CRUISER
12-30-2001, 12:21 PM
Anybody know what Heads and Camshaft it takes to make over 1000 Hp with a 547 ci chevy on 93 octane? Already have a 1071,superchiller, and 2 1050 dominators. Currently using Merlin steel heads,(early design), and a Clay Smith flat tappet,.640 lift cam.

Blowin Mud
12-30-2001, 08:42 PM
93 octane might be a problem, I would hit up Reher Morrison in Tx for some wicked heads. They are very reasonable on the prices considering their fabulous outting in pro stock this year.

Racing Ray
12-31-2001, 05:20 AM
.
[This message has been edited by Racing Ray (edited March 12, 2002).]

RumRunner
12-31-2001, 12:18 PM
You will need to go to an aluminum head to make that kind of power on pump gas.

BACK 4 MORE
01-01-2002, 01:15 PM
Yes...Aluminum heads for sure and most likely a solid roller cam to spin that cid to around 6200-6500rpm.
That will get you to 1000hp.
[This message has been edited by BACK 4 MORE (edited January 01, 2002).]

VD CRUISER
01-01-2002, 04:57 PM
BACK 4 MORE,
I figured it would take Aluminum heads and a solid roller,but there are so many different makes and sizes. Got any specific suggestions like make, intake runner size, cam lift,duration,and lobe centers. I turn the motor 6200 rpm now so 6200 to 6500 sounds about right. We run 8 to 11 pounds of boost depending on what kind of gas we are using. Not many people in my area to answer these questions. Thanks for the reply.

BACK 4 MORE
01-01-2002, 06:52 PM
I like these heads...Canfield's standard 24.5-degree 350 c.c head. http://www.canfieldheads.com

Willis
01-01-2002, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by BACK 4 MORE:
I like these heads...Canfield's standard 24.5-degree 350 c.c head. http://www.canfieldheads.com
January 1, 2002
BACK 4 MORE,
Whats the deal on Canfield other than price?
Willis

DEL51
01-01-2002, 11:53 PM
I have a set of 345cc iron merlin/jenkins heads that have been cnc ported and will make the big power numbers in my 572.I hope to have it dynoed this spring.You can call goodwinn performance at 920 685 3000 and ask for todd.He has worked with canfield in R&D on there big block head.He has also worked with jim butler pontiac on cnc'd edelbrock heads.Good Luck!

Whipple Charged
01-10-2002, 08:57 PM
VD Cruiser,
Instead of heads and camshaft, why don't you change the blowers? There's probably 100 or so hp left on the table when using that 1071. Cost would be a bit more for our quad rotor, but I guarantee, more power.
Thanks
Dustin

VD CRUISER
01-13-2002, 08:37 AM
Whipple Charged,
Think I talked to you a couple weeks ago. The dual quad might be a little pricey for me right now, but how much do you think your intercooler will do for my setup? I run 8 to 1 comp. and 8# of boost with 93 octane, 11# boost with 50% racing gas, 28-30 degrees timing. This seems to work ok, except the head gaskets take a beating at the higher boost level. Do you think the larger volume intake, aluminum heads, would help any?

Whipple Charged
01-14-2002, 09:58 PM
VDCRUISER,
I understand. I think the intercooler would make a pretty big difference. You'll lose approx. 1lb. of boost through pressure drop, so your 11lb setup will go to 10, yet more air will be in the cylinder because of it being denser. So, I think you'll be able to take the 10 intercooled with 91 octane. The reason the head gaskets are taking a beating is because it's detonating, which is almost 20 times the cylinder pressure of the normal combustion pressure. I would aslo check that you have 15lbs. of block pressure, operating water temp around 100 at WOT.
NOt sure what intake you have, but typically speaking, an intake change does very little in a forced induction motor. Aluminum heads will certainly help, probably a set of Dart 355's or Brodix -3's. This will probably be your best upgrade. Will be able to run 1.5-2lbs. more boost than with cast iron or less octane.
No matter what anybody says, it's harder than people think to make a true 1000hp with a roots blower, especially without aluminum heads, so thats what I would change first, then the camshaft depending on your current specs. The quad setup is the only next bet, can make another 100hp vs. your 1071, $5495 bolts right on your Superchiller.
Thanks,
Dustin

VD CRUISER
01-15-2002, 05:16 PM
Whipple Charged,
Thanks Dustin! I have a Mooneyham intake. The larger intake I was referring to was the intake volume of the aluminum heads as opposed to my smaller volume steel heads. Can the quad be run with my carburators, and why does it outperform the roots so much? I am using a Fel-Pro head gasket,# 1012 that requires a lock-ring groove in the head. Do you think they are sufficient? I haven't acctually blown one out, but after 2 seasons they looked about ready to go, between the cylinders. Do you know anything about the Canfield aluminum heads? They make a 350 cc intake runner.

Whipple Charged
01-16-2002, 07:50 PM
VD Cruiser,
Those head gaskets should be fine, but I've found they don't fit alot of heads that have been opened up. The Canfield heads work very well, they make awesome power. Not sure what intake volume you have now, but at your boost level the larger intakes will work better.
The reason the screw/Whipple works so much better is that their more efficient. This means they take less energy/hp to operate and create far less heat. The temp allows you to run either more boost/compression, less octane, or more lead. The lower parasatic losses makes more power easier while also being more fuel efficient. A typical setup like yours, we usually see about 100hp/150lbs. of torque increase boost for boost and have seen more in some cases. This is with back to back test. The best way to make power is to run low static compression, high boost levels with an efficient supercharger, but with a roots, the leakage back through the rotors is so bad that it's beneficial to run higher static compression and low boost levels. Screw compressors, turbos, centrifugals like boost, high boost levels, ideally 12-16lbs. Motors still have to be built around this though. Roots are horrible in these ranges. Problem is that centrifugal and turbos can't run low compression on typical applications because they don't make good power down low because they don't have cylinder pressure to make power. So, you have to have a happy median. Screw compressors produce huge air flows at low speeds and have high efficiency for the top end. This equals into the best of both worlds, monstrous low end torque, turbo like horsepower levels. Power is basically the more air and fuel you can shove into the cylinder and combust properly, so the denser the air, cooler the air, and the least amount of energy spent to produce that air will make power the easiest.
Yes, you can use your carbs, but linkage would have to change. Your 1050's would be plenty.

boat030
01-16-2002, 08:27 PM
whipple charged, i'm building a 540ci with dart olds.(big chief) heads for a 26 daytona i was planning on using a blower shop 1471. the guy i bought it from (Semper marine) is big on whipple what do you think the bottom line advantage would be to go with a whippple quad.

BOOSTDADDY
01-18-2002, 12:17 PM
VD CRUISER- YOU MIGHT WANT TO THINK ABOUT ADDING EXTRA HEAD BOLTS DURING YOUR NEXT ENGINE REBUILD.BBC ARE MISSING 2 HEAD BOLTS ON EACH SIDE.ADDING THESE EXTRA HEAD BOLTS WILL BE MANDATORY FOR BIG POWER. THE LOCK WIRE SYSTEM IS A GOOD DEAL, IT WORKS WELL WHEN DONE CORRECTLY. THE TRICK IS GETTING THE GROOVE DEPTH CORRECT. GOOD LUCK!

Whipple Charged
01-18-2002, 03:36 PM
boat030,
On a big motor like that, there's a HUGE difference in power. Were talking well over 100hp in power, boost for boost. Not only that, those have huge intakes which need high velocity to help make low end torque. You can run about 12-14lbs. of boost and make around 1200-1400hp depending on compression and camshaft, rpm, etc. Our intercooler will also save you 2", blower will not change in performance, can run long periods of time and have a major cool factor!!
Thanks,
Dustin

BOOSTDADDY
01-18-2002, 06:21 PM
WHIPPLE CHARGED- 12 -14LBS OF BOOST ARE YOU STILL TALKING ABOUT PUMP GAS?
YOU CAN MAKE 1200-1300 HP WITH A ROOTS STYLE BLOWER, THE TRICK IS KNOWING HOW! GUYS LIKE STERLING PERFORMANCE AND KEITH EICKERT AND RICHIE ZUL HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS!

RumRunner
01-19-2002, 04:25 PM
But what kind of blowers are they using Daddy ?

BOOSTDADDY
01-20-2002, 11:48 AM
Rumrunner- I beleive they all are using Blower Shop 14-71's. There is a little more to it than just the right Supercharger.Its knowing how to do the rest of the set up.

schiada96
01-20-2002, 01:11 PM
Can't screws can make way more power than a roots?

HighRoller
01-20-2002, 09:27 PM
The biggest problem with your quest for 1000hp on pump gas will be heat.Therefore,a good aluminum head(ported and matched) and a high capacity intercooler will be mandatory,and I would recommend a 14-71 blower.Teague Marine's 1000HP produces the power at 6000RPM with a 14-71.Also,a hydraulic roller is the only way to go for a cam.It requires a high dollar valvetrain but it is the only way to go.(Obviously make sure it's matched to your combo/drive)If I were you I would consult every engine builder within reach for advice.Finally,make sure your reciprocating assembly is ready for the HP!!!

boat030
01-21-2002, 12:15 PM
Dustin,
thanks for answering my question. I've had a good amount of experience with marine engines but never a blown motor it's like starting all over again. that seems like alot of boost for pump gas is the intercooler going to make that possible.what about running the 1471 with the whiple intercooler??

VD CRUISER
01-21-2002, 05:42 PM
Highroller,
It's already turning 6200 rpm, I'd like to get it up to about 6500-6600 so I don't have to change gears or prop or both. Got 48% in the V-Drive now and 12x16 2 blade prop. Do you think the hydraulic roller makes more torque than the mechanical or do you like it for low maintanence.
THANKS to everyone for the input, keep it coming.

Whipple Charged
01-21-2002, 07:32 PM
Boost daddy, yes 12-14 on pump gas all day long.
1200 to 1300 hp with a roots blower on pump gas?? Might want to check that dyno calibration. Sterling Engines make approx. 1300 hp on race gas with awesome big chief heads, 558ci, good cam design, a sound internal rotating assembly and the know how, but pump gas, I highly, highly doubt it. If you take those numbers, than with our superchargers, you can make 1350-1500hp on the same engine. Others makes 700+ci with 4-5lbs. of boost to make 1200hp with a roots.
HIGHROLLER, no need to advise on 1471, that's what were trying to say, a 1471 is so low on the efficiency scale, power and reliability is so much easier to achieve with a screw.
Boat030, 12-14 is not that much when you have low compression, the right cam design, and good flowing heads with efficient superchargers. An intercooler, open cooling with fresh water cooling the engine, etc., you can really make motors live a long time. As for a 1471, it depends what boost levels your going to run, the first problem you'll have is that our intercooler manifold is so low that it hits normal distributors with 1271-1471 blowers. But the blower is going to take huge HP to drive, if you run low boost, intercooler won't do much but make things safer, if you run higher boost levels, you'll be able to achieve more power because the intercooler will be taking a lot of heat. You have to get more air and fuel in the cylinder the most efficient way.
Thanks,
Dustin

boat030
01-21-2002, 09:04 PM
Dustin, the distributor won't be a problem we are going to run an msd crank trigger. could i run your intercooler and quad rotor under the engine cover with no scoop or would it need more air to run effectively.do you think this set up is capable of 1300hp on pump gas all the rotating assembly and valvetrain is top of the line. can i call you to discuss this further.

Charley
01-27-2002, 08:08 PM
I have a Whipple quad rotor with Whipples innercooler on a Teague 509.....I wanted something reliable so I requested a mild 7.5 lbs of boost which makes 848 hp at 6000 rpms on the dyno...I also know that Dustin and Bob Teague put a 12 lb pully on my motor that day and it made 1050 HP at 5000 rpms, Bob didn't want to push my motor any higher with that pully because he still hadn't recieved my final payment on the motor hehehe ..not bad for a little 509 on pump gas...and she idles nice too....Im not a gear head but I am VERY happy with my setup and both Dustin and Bob have been very good to work with.

e-ticket
01-27-2002, 08:30 PM
Should I put a t-400 transmission in my blown 74 Howard? Why or why not?

boatguy222
01-28-2002, 03:58 PM
Charley,
It sounds you have what I want to build, I have a good 500ci shortblock, and want to put the Whipple quad unit on it. My goals for this engine about 800 reliable hp. The 7.5 lbs of boost sounds about right, My question for you is what head combo are you using? and what camshaft are you using? I have neither and I am looking for a workable comb.
thanks
Marc
Originally posted by Charley:
I have a Whipple quad rotor with Whipples innercooler on a Teague 509.....I wanted something reliable so I requested a mild 7.5 lbs of boost which makes 848 hp at 6000 rpms on the dyno...I also know that Dustin and Bob Teague put a 12 lb pully on my motor that day and it made 1050 HP at 5000 rpms, Bob didn't want to push my motor any higher with that pully because he still hadn't recieved my final payment on the motor hehehe ..not bad for a little 509 on pump gas...and she idles nice too....Im not a gear head but I am VERY happy with my setup and both Dustin and Bob have been very good to work with.

VD CRUISER
01-28-2002, 05:21 PM
E-ticket,
Have had a T-400 in my blown 83, 21 Howard since it was new. No problems with it at all. The lower gears are especially nice for idling around marinas and docking when you have big gears in the V-drive. I have 48% over.

e-ticket
01-28-2002, 06:15 PM
VD CRUISER
I think I will use the T-400. When you talk gears, are you talking transmission gears or v-drive gears?
http://www.havasubarney.com/gallery/albums/album40/light_buff.sized.jpg
Check my new gel work!

VD CRUISER
01-28-2002, 06:39 PM
e-ticket,
Looks clean! I mean using 1st or 2nd gear in the T-400 lets the boat move really slow when you need to, like around a dock or marina. This is really useful when you have a lot of overdrive in the V-drive or if your big cammed motor doesn't like to idle below 1800 rpm's or so. With a 1 to 1 transmission like a Velvet Drive you have to keep taking it in and out of gear in tight spots.

e-ticket
01-28-2002, 06:59 PM
VD Cruiser
I remember the in-gear out-of-gear excercise!
It was bad enough with stock power. I sure don't want that excercise in this one.
Are you going to the Howard Regatta?
[This message has been edited by e-ticket (edited January 28, 2002).]

VD CRUISER
01-31-2002, 05:27 PM
E-ticket,
I'm on the east coast so I probably won't make the regatta. What kind of engine/V-drive are you putting in the Howard?

Whipple Charged
02-06-2002, 09:38 PM
For Charley's 509, we used a aggressive hydr. roller cam of our choice (only will idle with our system) from Crane Cams, then Bob Teague used a set of -3 aluminum Brodix heads. They turned out to be a wonderful combo, in fact it was hardly breathing. I really wanted to run 10-12lbs. of boost on pump gas, but Teague wanted to be ultra conservative which I totally understand. I think it's so conservative, it doesn't even need the intercooler to be safe, but no doubt always helps. I'm the opposite, I run as much I can squeeze in there in all my rides http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif You can get all this from Bob, the same heads/cam/blower/carb combo basically pre-tuned thanks to the dyno time and the help of Charley letting us run his motor.
As for clearance, distributor should be no problem, and height, with carbs, you'll probably still need hatch mods, but scoops aren't really needed unless you want the looks, side and rear vents are usually plenty.
Thanks,
Dustin

Charley
02-07-2002, 07:55 PM
no, thank-YOU Dustin hehehe