locking in timing question

[flattie]

eveyone says to lock the timing in at 34 deg with the blower. Do you mean taking out the advance curve? If so how do you do that on a MSD ignition.
thanks agian
Rick

[Infomaniac]

On an MSD put the light springs in it so the advance comes in fast. Set total to 34. Just make sure all the advance is in when you set it.

[DEL51]

Hey Flattie,infomaniac is correct(as usual).I learned the loud way or is it the hardway? Anyway, I had my motor all ready to go and used the msd distibutor from my old LS7 thinking all I had to do stick it in and set the timng for 34 deg total. On the trailer, this was a piece of cake and sounded good.Then came the real world test on the water and it backfired, every time, around 2500 rpm it would pop through the carbs so I called the guy that built my engine. He said to install the light springs cause my advance was not coming in fast enough.This cured the problem.Ran great,Now info has to sell me his cougar so i can put this engine into a nice home.

[gnarley]

I have a question for you guys. How can you say lock it at 34 degrees when you don't know any of the variables in someone elses motor? Varibles like static comp, percent drive on the blower or boost, octane of the fuel, heat range of the plugs & not to mention the fuel delivery method and jetting. If any of these are not right you might just send out someone thinking their safe and they melted their spark plugs and a few pistons when they turned up the juice. Why not start on the safe side and work up to a good number? 34 degrees could melt something if anything is wrong! Why not start on the safe side like around 28 degrees and work up to 34 if it will take it?

[Blown509Liberator]

Good point gnarley
My motor was running on the ragged edge of detonation. Static was 8.6:1 and 7 psi of boost at 6000 rpms. On the dyno we made good power till we advanced it 32deg from 30. So what does that tell ya? We where walking into detonation at 32 deg.. Motor lives very happy with 30 deg total advance. At 34 we would have vented a few pistons

[gnarley]

Originally posted by flattie:
eveyone says to lock the timing in at 34 deg with the blower. Do you mean taking out the advance curve? If so how do you do that on a MSD ignition.
thanks agian
Rick
Flattie, your total timing is the combination of initial timing and your advance curve that starts to add additional advance as RPM's increase at around 1000 RPM's or 100-200 RPM's after your idle speed. Next you want your total timing to stop adding anymore advance somewhere between 2500 & 3000 RPM's since boost starts to really come in around there.
This does not mean that you eliminate your advance, you change your springs or weights to allow the advance to occur in total at a lower RPM for the blower and then lock it in at your specified desired maximum total advance with a timing light on it at the desired RPM. When you lock it in go check it again and make sure that more RPM does not add any additional timing to your desired total! If it does go up farther than what you wanted something is wrong & it may melt something. A good place to start is 10 to12 degrees initial timing and 16, 18 or 20 degrees advance for a total of 26, 28 or 30 degrees.
Got it? Be careful
Gnarley
Originally posted by Blown509Liberator:
Good point gnarley
My motor was running on the ragged edge of detonation. Static was 8.6:1 and 7 psi of boost at 6000 rpms. On the dyno we made good power till we advanced it 32deg from 30. So what does that tell ya? We where walking into detonation at 32 deg.. Motor lives very happy with 30 deg total advance. At 34 we would have vented a few pistons
Hey Blown509Liberator, what juice do you run? Any octane boost or good stuff?
[This message has been edited by gnarley (edited May 14, 2002).]

[Blown Sleek]

Just trying to help but there is a very simple way to lock out the MSD distributor. In the old days it was to weld it now you just put the screw in the bottom of the advance weight mechanism. Look at the instructions that came with your dist. MSD had this in mind. Total advance is initial plus whatever you get when the springs have gone to the stops and the weights are at the stops to. When the blower guys (LOCK IT OUT) that means the same timing from 0-10,000 rpm. Not 0 at idle and 29deg. at 2000 and 34 at 4000. Hope this helps.

[Craig]

blown sleek, that is how mine is set up, there is no vacuum or centrifugal advance. At idle my boats has 34 degrees on the dampner wheel. Starts and runs fine (with Av-gas that is http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif )

[Infomaniac]

Originally posted by gnarley:
I have a question for you guys. How can you say lock it at 34 degrees when you don't know any of the variables in someone elses motor? Varibles like static comp, percent drive on the blower or boost, octane of the fuel, heat range of the plugs & not to mention the fuel delivery method and jetting. If any of these are not right you might just send out someone thinking their safe and they melted their spark plugs and a few pistons when they turned up the juice. Why not start on the safe side and work up to a good number? 34 degrees could melt something if anything is wrong! Why not start on the safe side like around 28 degrees and work up to 34 if it will take it?
Did we read the same question? I did not hear him ask if 34 was a good number for his engine. If you follow this board he has pretty much let everyone know his set up at one time or another. His carbs will be way rich and not much boost. I did not recommend locking out the MSD but rather putting the light springs in. I assume he will still run it at the lake. The last time I saw a picture of it in the water it was at the lake. It has zoomies now so maybe he turned it in to a full out race rig.
34 degrees could melt something if anything is wrong. That is correct but the timing would not have been what was wrong.
[This message has been edited by Infomaniac (edited May 14, 2002).]

[Blown509Liberator]

gnarley
I can still get 93 out of the pump and sometimes 94... If needed i use NOS octane booster per and engine bulder I know. I had to pull it apart this spring and there was no sign of detonation. I am still thinking of trying a (I think its MSD's) Knock sensor on my blower motor. I have talked to a few people that use them and said they can tune out the blower noise and they work fine......
MikeW
[This message has been edited by Blown509Liberator (edited May 15, 2002).]

[gnarley]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Infomaniac:
Did we read the same question?
Infomaniac, woo chill out. What I read was, did it mean taking out the advance by locking the timing & how to do it on an MSD. He said that everyone says to lock it at 34 degrees, Ok, not should I. But you told him to lock it at 34 and no I don’t remember reading that in the question if he should lock it at 34. So no I don’t think you read it as it was asked and maybe you read more into the question, that is why I posted my thoughts.
I didn't go back and read the history of different threads that might be interrelated; I read what I saw here and erred on the side of caution. Many people read these threads for info and share info, OK so maybe you did know his variables, I didn't. That doesn't mean when advice is given another reader might try it without fully thinking it through. I read it and thought that when advising it was best to question the setup and err on the side of caution.
So for the most part I agree with you, light spring so it comes in fast but I still err on the side of caution when tuning. Isn’t it better to start on the low side & read the plugs before turning up the wick?
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Blown509Liberator:
I can still get 93 out of the pump and sometimes 94... If needed i use NOS octane booster per and engine bulder I know
Wow, lucky you that’s good gas. I've been looking around here and still can't find better than 91 driving around, heck on the water in nor cal most gas you find is 89 and it is real hard to find 91. Do you know what the active ingredient is in the NOS booster? I read on a site a week ago that most of the boosters you needed to use a 10% mix to gain 1 or 2 points and this was real disheartening. It seemed like the more you put in the better improvement, meaning you had to put in a few gallons. Do you know what the ratio is on the NOS as compared to what you are getting? Their add says, “Increases octane effect as much as 7 points” but what is the ratio to get the 7 points? It also says “One bottle treats up to 16 gallons of gas” but what improvement does 1 bottle do to 16 gallons of 92 octane? They don’t tell you. To me it sounds like a bunch marketing rhetoric. If you have anything that can show me I would sure appreciate it.

[Infomaniac]

Gnarley: I did not intend to come across so strong. I am generally direct and to the point. This sometimes gives a false impression. Actually I was at work and in a hurry when I posted that. I come here to escape, sometimes several times per day.. That is how I remember flattie's engine details.
You are correct about starting off conservative. But I do not think 34 degrees total is pushing it. Unless as you said if anything is wrong.
On the other subject of fuel. I always believe if you step up to a blower, stepping up to better fuel goes along with it. Most lake rigs have 2 tanks. At the least have good fuel in one of them for running it hard. the other tank can be used to cruise on. Good fuel does not come from the pump. All octane boosters as far as I know will only increase octane by a few points. By the time you buy enough of it to do anything you could have bought good fuel.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Infomaniac:
Gnarley: By the time you buy enough of it to do anything you could have bought good fuel.
Ain't that the truth http://free.***boat.net/ubb/biggrin.gif Hell, av-gas was $1.99 in Havasu last weekend. What, 20-30 cents more a gallon. Given the money most of us have in our boats, if you need the octane, why screw around with boosters!
Craig

[gnarley]

Man, I don't want to do the damn octane booster thing but it is real hard to find good gas up here. You guys should consider yourselves lucky to get good gas or even AV-gas for a $1.99 I saw 89 octane in the Delta for $2.29 2 weeks ago. In my boat I have only a single 44 gallon tank so I don't have the option to keep good fuel in only one of them and if I did It would get used pretty fast anyway. If I could get better fuel on a regular basis without getting bent over the pump I could run more timing on mine, in the mean time I only feel safe at 30 degrees and keep that damn booster as a safety net just in case.

[gnarley]

I just did some research and talked to the tech support at Bardahl. They have a product called Knockout that I actually got kind of excited about. The product support had some real good information to share and felt that even with the blend of fuel we have in California I could get a real 4.0 octane increase with their product.
BARDAHL Manufacturing Corporation
P.O. Box 70607
Seattle, Washington 98107-0607
Phone : (206) 783-4851
1-888-BARDAHL (1-888-227-3245)
KO Treatment Level
RON Octane Gain
One Bottle To 64 Gallons
(242 liters) of Gasoline -- 1:512
4.0
One Bottle to 32 Gallons
(121 liters) of Gasoline -- 1:256
6.5
One Bottle To 16 Gallons
(60.5 liters) of Gasoline -- 1:128
9.0
http://www.bardahl.com/automotive/products/knockout.htm

[Infomaniac]

I would beware. They are talking about the Research Octane Number RON. I would ask them specifically for the MON Motor Octane Number. As you probably know a fuels octane rating is the average of the two. Look on any gas pump. It says RON + MON /2
As anything the theoritacal gain is actually much more than the actual.

[gnarley]

Infomaniac, I called them again after your warning. They say that the MON is very difficult to test for and that as far as they know no one making boosters uses the MON rating because of its difficulty. He also said that he would expect the MON number to increase close to the same amount as the RON. Hey if you have any questions give their tech support a call and let me know what you think.

[Infomaniac]

I would suspect they do not have the equipment to test the MON number and would not like the what it read either. I guarantee you the RON number is much higher than the MON. That test is done chemically by Phoenix Labs. The ingredients they use are probably favorable for that type of test. Would act much differently in an engine.
If they really wanted to know the MON all they would have to do is get one of the oil (gas) companies to test it in their gas. They already know what their gas tests. Put some of their boost in and whatever the increase is would be due to the booster.
They were closed when I called a minute ago. The web site was saying increases of points.
I am sure if you must use an octane booster this would be the better choice.

[blowncarrera777]

hey DEl 51 or anyone. I'm running a 468 bbc w/420 mega & 750 hollies, 15 int. and 32 total all in at 2800 rpm's. My problem is i get detonation in transition, when giving it gas from say 3000 rpms ging over wakes, or when boat is not level and floats seem ok. Could my timing be skipping? i have mallory hifire dist. when im in smooth water it never happens. any help appreciated.

[eliminatya]

was wondering if anyone could give me some info on the msd bushings. cant remember the amount of advance for each of the different colored bushings(red,black silver).

[Craig]

Bushing Size ~crankshaft degrees
red-smallest 28
silver 25
blue 21
black-largest 18

[hulshot]

Gnarley, I'm also part of the delta group. 91 sucks, so I'm mixing 114 unical to it. 30% mix only raises the octain by about 5 points. Thats enough for me to run 6.5 pounds of boost. I just fot the chance to get my boat on the water for the big Cat poker run. It did great untill the last leg, where while cruising I blew the drive apart. Now I am triing to convence the wife to let me buy a XR drive from imco. I also read the post question as you did. I would reply to this by saying to put the lock screw in the weights and set timing to what ever you wanted. Alot of people and alot of opinions. For me personally I run 28/29 total in this motor and it still made over 1000 hp. I guess all combos are different. Just think if flattie is fuel injected either mecanically or electronically, now what should the total be set at??

[gnarley]

Hey Hulshot, good to hear from another nor-cal boater. Where do ya get your 114? Can you tell me the best places to fuel up on the Delta for price since we don't have much choice in fuel, as do the so-cal boys & gals. Best prices for 91??? Best prices for 89??? I'm going to try an octane booster this weekend and am staying at the Sugerbarge RV Park. The boat has a mild 454 w/ small blower. Est. is about 550-600.
Sorry to hear about your drive. I wanted to go to the Big cat run also but just had to much to do. I have a friend that I am sure was in it also but don't talk to him much, he has a 2001 Hustler 344 poker run special I think. For me I am now about to try 30 & do a plug check. I set initial at 12 degrees and advance limited to 18 degrees with light weights it starts its curve at 1000 and stops at 3000. I might even bring it down to 2500 for the total of all timing and lock it there. For pure race stuff I help on my buddy’s boat that will be in Red Bluff without me, he runs Pro Eliminator when he can. The timing has no curve and is locked at 34 degrees with no worries on Alcohol and mech injection. For Elec. Injection it should have knock sensors and let the motor run what it wants or allow for custom changes based on your particular needs.

[DEL51]

BlownCarrera777,You need to elimiate some variables by checking the basics first.Check all the wiring including the alternator. Then check the fuel system and make sure you're not losing pressure.Have someone put a timing light on while you drive.Are you sure it's detonating or is it misfiring? Check you fuel quality,is it good gas or left over from last year.Did this problem just crop up or is this a ne engine combiation. Get back to us and we will try to figure it out

[hulshot]

gnarley The closes race gas for you is off of 120 in manteca just past tracy. Its 20 min from Disco bay. It is called Bryant racing fuels and it is at a 76 station off of 120 on Airway Blvd. I'll try to find the number. I just go straight to the source in the Sacramento area at C.L.Bryant Racing Fuels They have it all from 100LL to 118 and Alcohol and if you buy enough of it and are a good customer you will probalbly get a better deal. You can call them to find the adress for the Manteca store or if you nut up and buy 55 gallons they will deliver it to you.
I too ran the drag boat circut. I ran blown gas Flat and then moved to Alcohol Flat. I ran 42 Degress timing locked with a 14;71 high helix spinning 30 over on a 472ci that made approx 1600hp, talk about hard hitting.
When I can get a drive together again I will be all over the delta to play with whom ever. I run a 26 Howard Cat.

[Heatseeker]

The 76 station hulshot is talking about is on the corner of Airport and Yosemite(take the Airport exit north from 120 to Yosemite) in Manteca. They sell 110 and 114 octane gas for $3.99 a gallon.

[gnarley]

OK well I should of said what area I am in so that I didn't have you post fuel spots in the far side of the Delta for me. I am in Santa Rosa and head out Hwy 4 or 12 most times these days. I used to have connections from my racing days and could always get good gas, but now up in Santa Rosa I don’t know anyone into racing except my neighbor. I’ll ask him to check around or av-gas at the airport since he’s a pilot.

[Heatseeker]

Oops, The above post should have read 100 and 110 octane for $3.99 a gallon. gnarley, we ought to get together some time. I'm in the Manteca area(Lathrop). I sometimes go to Tower Park. Only bummer, I work nights and have lousy weekends(off Sun and Mon nights). I must say though, Mondays are nice days on the Delta. Hardly anybody out.

[hulshot]

Heatseeker I also have Mondays off and live in Sacramento and am at the delta fairly regularly. I launch out of Disco Bay and Orwood. I have friens that work for Honkercut and for sea ray out of tower park.
Whats your ride, mine is a 26 Howard paddle boat now until I get another drive on it.

[blowncarrera777]

del im checking most of that now. it happened last yr also, so gas out. 7-8 lbs fuel pressure. ive reset floats. changing dist. cap. Making sure plug wires arent touching and ignition wiring/switch not loose. have checked timing. I would say its backfire not detonation, which means an intake valve is open and that cylinder is firing when not its turn which makes me think it is loose wiring somewhere, or bad plug wires or ignition problem which will be last thing to change Im going to piss off the neighbors sat morning when i have new parts and fire it up. Then shake all wires to see if it will happen. also i dont have that blower surge at idle any more, so ive really got it messed up. Thanks for the suggestions.

[blowncarrera777]

hulshot i to play at the delta a lot, mostly old town sac and north , but sometimes go to wimpies and tower and towards you. My ride is just a 21 carrerra so i dont like the big water to much, but with the blower and arneson surface drive at least i can get on top of them for a while. Also go a lot with a buddy who has 27 eliminator blue/white cat twin. holler if ya see us, or maybe can plan a get together if i ever get this carrera running right. I see theres a 28 obsession cat for sale in bakersfield. Any opinions on obsessions? its a 94/95 twin 502's i believe Ken

[Heatseeker]

hulshot,
We ought to meet one monday and go cruisin. Maybe at Tower Park?
I have an 18' Caribbean jet with a 454 w/8-71 BDS.

[hulshot]

I am still waiting for some prices on a drive. Until then I am a garage racer. sucks that it happened right befor Memorial Weekend. I missed a 4 day housboat trip on Shasta because of it and I will probably miss more.

[Heatseeker]

Then you'll just have to ride in my blown squirt boat then!
Shoot me an email sometime.
johnniepiv@yahoo.com

[cougarmtr]

OK,heres one. The blower guru's are telling me that any boost you generate via conventional blower or turbo charger ,you need to retard the timing for every 1lb of boost to prevent the unwanted pre detonation,or spark knock,which causes heat.and leads to more problems.It was explained to me that when the cylinder pressures increase (Boost)causing the air/fuel molecules to compress you use less timing to slow the burn rate.This whole thing started ,when i told them my situation.Im running a 502 450hp,with a 250 powercharger,5 to 6 lbs boost.Timing set at 29 deg locked.keeping in mind the comp ratio of 8.75.well he just about shit.To make long story short.we have the engine apart ,and everthing shows signs of to much heat.So something to keep in mind when setting the timing.So i will add a boost retard,and lower comp.ratio .and just for cheap insurance run the best fuel i can get.My 02cnts worth.

[DEL51]

Cougarmtr,I would think if you use good premiun fuel 5 lbs of boost would be fine at 29 degrees total.

[FASTERDAMITT]

I don't see anybody considering the intercooler on posts! I was delivered my boat with a Procharger on a 454 mag. 35 deg, total timing.Premium fuel with a tank of av gas every other fill.200hrs and 3yrs later no problems. I pulled the heads this spring to upgrade and found everything in perfect shape. Bolted on the new heads, cam, intake, ect.. Locked timing at 30deg. per recommended. Most likely losing alot of power in the 5 deg in timing diff.

[FASTERDAMITT]

Oh ya, 6.5#s boost. carburated.

[hulshot]

heatseeker and blowncarrera777 I should have a drive by the weekend but not on the boat until next week, its the gotta work thing that gets in the way. By Fathers day weekend I should be good to go. Hey I dont mind going for a hot lap in a jet, could be fun to play around. You should go to camp far west on the fathers day weekend on Sat if you want to see alot of fun. I'll get the e-mail for you. I got one shot of my ride on a post somewhere oh yeah go to CATS and TUNNELS and check out first time on the water.

[hulshot]

sorry it called "finally hit the water" I'll try to get some updated pics soon.

[Heatseeker]

Hulshot,
I heard there was some doings on FD weekend at Far West. I work on Saturday night(yeah, work gets in my way too!!!). And mama made it pretty clear where I'll be on Father's Day. Aren't you off on Mondays? We hook up on a Mon. and not have to deal with all the weekend warriors.

[gnarley]

Originally posted by Heatseeker:
mama made it pretty clear where I'll be on Father's Day.
Heatseeker, isn't it your day being fathers day? Doesn't that give you your choice of what you want to do on your day like she does on mothers day?

[DEEZ NUTTS]

So I too now have a fuel question after reading these threads. 509ci, 871 5lbs. 8.4 comp superchiller, 28deg total in around 3300. 24' vee. I have only tested for an hour or so at a local reservior which is at about 6500' elevation. I ran on half av and premium left over from last year in tank. Everything looks good.
I am wondering if I will get away with premium fuel at lower elevation like Powell(3600) or not? Havasu is easy, av gas on every corner so I will run it there.
[This message has been edited by DEEZ NUTTS (edited June 04, 2002).]

[Heatseeker]

Originally posted by gnarley:
Heatseeker, isn't it your day being fathers day? Doesn't that give you your choice of what you want to do on your day like she does on mothers day?
I tried that angle. She isn't buying it!

[hulshot]

Idont have to worry about fathers day yet, but I do have one in the oven
I'm up for a little blown squirt action on monday after fathers day. I live by Sac let me know. Should I bring my Lifeline and Helmet. Fathers Day at Camp Far West will be big and I'll probably be there and likely running a Blown Alc Hydro for fun or if not just drinking and trailer racing. Either way it'll bee a good time.

[BBB]

Originally posted by gnarley:
Hey Hulshot, good to hear from another nor-cal boater. Where do ya get your 114? Can you tell me the best places to fuel up on the Delta for price since we don't have much choice in fuel, as do the so-cal boys & gals. Best prices for 91??? Best prices for 89??? I'm going to try an octane booster this weekend and am staying at the Sugerbarge RV Park. The boat has a mild 454 w/ small blower. Est. is about 550-600.
Sorry to hear about your drive. I wanted to go to the Big cat run also but just had to much to do. I have a friend that I am sure was in it also but don't talk to him much, he has a 2001 Hustler 344 poker run special I think. For me I am now about to try 30 & do a plug check. I set initial at 12 degrees and advance limited to 18 degrees with light weights it starts its curve at 1000 and stops at 3000. I might even bring it down to 2500 for the total of all timing and lock it there. For pure race stuff I help on my buddy’s boat that will be in Red Bluff without me, he runs Pro Eliminator when he can. The timing has no curve and is locked at 34 degrees with no worries on Alcohol and mech injection. For Elec. Injection it should have knock sensors and let the motor run what it wants or allow for custom changes based on your particular needs.
Hello to Gnarly, Hulshot and the rest of the NorCal boaters...(and anybody else of course) I've been reading through this thread and have a couple of questions of my own. Now I'm really showing my ignorance here so please hold down the laughter. It's been 20+ years since I've seriously played with motors and I need some input. Here's my setup; BBC 460, Vortech blower, spearco intercooler, full MSD ignition w/ knock sensor , soft touch rev limiter and an Accel DFI. I'm wondering if anybody has experience with the Accel product? I was given a manual for the Calmap software and it looks as though you have to be a computer programmer to tune up the boat! Does the Accel DFI work in conjunction with the MSD and make necessary timing corrections automatically? I ask because I'm planning on upping the boost a bit via a pulley swap ( the original owner had the higher boost setup on it but lowered the boost prior to me taking it over until I got used to it) and I don't want any trouble. Besides, because it's a jet I imagine that it's going to be real fun hooking up a laptop and tuning while on the water or having to disconnect the pump which is another qusetion altogether. Any input would be greatly appreciated. I hope to hook up with you all sometime this summer!
-BBB

[hulshot]

sorry I know nothing about the computer programing or maping of a system in a boat. If you add more boost you should have to richen the fuel mixture slightly. If there was a way to mount an O2 sensor you would not have to do much.

[BBB]

If there was a way to mount an O2 sensor you would not have to do much.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the G2, do you know of anybody on the boards who might have experience with this type of a setup? Also,
I assume that 02 sensors are installed on the exhaust correct?
BBB

[gnarley]

BBB, sorry I was off the board for a few days but came home early after getting blown off Berryessa by the winds! We just said enough & be back another time. As far as your needs it sounds like a fun project but one that I have not dealt with & have no doubt could do. I don't have much experience with jets either, mostly I/O's and some V-drives. I had do some fuel curve work on a Jaguar 12 cyl in the past that was Bosch electronic and have a real understanding of EFI. I think the combination if integrated properly could be extremely reliable. If you have any questions regarding EFI let me know. The only problem I have with the MSD and its detonation sensor was that it is manual so by the time you react to the signal the damage is already done! A full-integrated ignition should have the capacity to retard on its own like the factory units do like those by GM & Ford.

[blowncarrera777]

del 51 I locked out my dist at 30 and had my carbs reworked by nickerson(that was money well spent). Took the beast out this afternoon at delta and jumped it over all kinds of wakes and no backfire. I was so happy, but i dont know if it was carbs or ignition causing problem, but thanks for all the suggestions. AT least it seems to be better now. I may move my timing to 32 and see what happens. Hul and heat lets do the delta soon email me.

[jstwkd]

Gnarley I was just reading your post and I get av gas in santa rosa For 2.50 a gallon 100 oct./its the same in lake county.They will not let the boat on the strip in SR so you have to put it in fuel bottles and take out to boat.But if you know a pilot maybe you can get in.

[Heatseeker]

Hey Travis, Walt told me there's a $50k fine involved with running AvGas in anything but a plane. Be careful...