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MOBrien
05-18-2004, 10:05 PM
'Sup all? Kinda new here and just noticed that there was a stereo forum here. Saaweeet.
I just acquired a 24 Cheetah and it has the very basic stereo set-up from the factory. AM/FM CD with only two 6.5's(unamplified) under the rear bench firing forward......Sooooo Weak!!!!!!! Might as well have a gaud damn boom box in my lap or a friggin Walkman. Oh wait, either of those would be better. Damn-it!
I'm thinking of putting 12's under the deck in front of the driver/passenger seats(sooo much room), replacing the 6.5's with 6x9's and adding 2 more 6x9's under legs in the open bow. Should I also add a pair of 6x9's in the side panels of the main cabin area to help with loudness? Any recommendations on equipment that won't break the bank?...considering I just blew my wad on the boat, can't justify high end equip to the wife and need to keep this purchase well under the radar.
Also, would I NEED to add a 3rd battery & how would that mate up with the two I've got right now on a "1/BOTH/2" switch? New switch?
Thanks!

riverbound
05-18-2004, 10:29 PM
we usually do 4to6 6X9s and 2 12s in most of the boats we do. Most people are very happy with this set up and you can usually get this done relatively inexpensive. As far as recomendations we usually use Eclipse 6x9s (retail $179 pair) they work very well for marine use. as far as woofers we usually use either Rockford or JL audio (starting @ $109 ea) For amplifiers we use Rockford or JL amps (depending on budget) I could definitely help you out if you are interested, you could also contact ROZ, he also hooks up ***boat forum members.

ROZ
05-18-2004, 10:53 PM
Just to add to what Rb has posted. Make sure as to not mount your additional speakers too low. Mount them up as high as you can in a location you like. For the open bow you could mount the 6.5's you're replacing into the cupholder pocket area. Having the speakers up there will benefit as you're not looking to power them heavily in keeping within your budget.
If you plan to tackle the job yourself (saving money along the way), there are several of us on here who can help explain the process along the way if you need it...
CAn Havasu Hangin' interest you in a couple 6V batteries? :D

MOBrien
05-19-2004, 08:31 AM
I appreciate the insight.
Problem with getting the speakers elevated in thr front is this, the front cup holders are located in the nose of the open bow where there is only one "pocket" for the two of them. There aren't locations in the sides of the open bow like typically seen...it's all back cushion. That's why I thought I'd put them under the legs....purely on available space. In having 4 6x9's down low in the seat boxes, that's also why I thought I'd add 2 more into the side panels of the main cabin area. Recommended? ROZ you're right, I don't want to get into crazy power configurations and will probably be considered "lightly powered" by many. That being said, any advice on amp sizes to run 4 or 6 6x9's and a couple of 12's?
Thanks again!
-MOB

riverbound
05-19-2004, 08:57 AM
We have used the new Rockford punch series amps and have had really good luck with them. The most popular models would be the P4004 and the P6001bd. This would definitely work for what you are trying to achieve.

MOBrien
05-19-2004, 09:06 AM
Is it true that they get VERY hot....hotter than others of similar power output?

riverbound
05-19-2004, 09:26 AM
The heatsinks on rockford amps do get hotter than most. I have been running their amps for years and have had very few problems with them. I have built sound systems for hundreds of boats over my career. and they are still my most recomended amp.

ROZ
05-19-2004, 09:31 AM
Originally posted by MOBrien
I appreciate the insight.
Problem with getting the speakers elevated in thr front is this, the front cup holders are located in the nose of the open bow where there is only one "pocket" for the two of them. There aren't locations in the sides of the open bow like typically seen...it's all back cushion. That's why I thought I'd put them under the legs....purely on available space.
If you have the room , you could do something like this: http://www.marksautosound.com/portfolio/images/S_210sw4.jpg
Originally posted by MOBrien
In having 4 6x9's down low in the seat boxes, that's also why I thought I'd add 2 more into the side panels of the main cabin area. Recommended? Is this where you mean? http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/326DSC00699-med.JPGhttp://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/505/326DSC00698-med.JPG
or do you mean in the openbow's walk through on the sides that are 22" apart?
Originally posted by MOBrien
ROZ you're right, I don't want to get into crazy power configurations and will probably be considered "lightly powered" by many. That being said, any advice on amp sizes to run 4 or 6 6x9's and a couple of 12's?
There's a couple ways to do it, but I recommend getting something like JL's E6450( less expensive than you may think ;) ) 6 channel to run all your 6 of your speakers and something like JL's slash 2501 or 5001 to run your subwoofers...
Another way is to run your bow speakers off your deck, the 4 cockpit speakers on your 4 channel amp, and a mono amp to run your subs.
You could also do the same cofiguration as right above, but use a good 5 channel amp to run the 4 cockpit speakers AND your subwoofers.
Cost really depends on how loud, clear, and bassy you want your music as well as how custom an install you want. :)
Incidentally, the JBL amps have a really good watt per dollar value. You can find them online at very reasonable rates...
I'm a big ole JL Audio fan, though :D :D :D

ROZ
05-19-2004, 09:35 AM
No matter what amp(s) you run, I recommend running a fan(s) to keep em' cool.

MOBrien
05-19-2004, 09:24 PM
OK.
Stopped into several small shops that specialize in boat audio here in Sactown (Friggin Kings...damn-it!) and got some different advice at each.
1. stay away from 6x9's because they're really only good for midbass & the highs aren't that great? Not what I thought.
2. stick with 6.5's because they sound better? Not what I thought.
3. run 4 6.5's and a pair of 10's off a 5-channel? Sounds feasible but might overload the amp.
4. run 4 6.5's and a single 12 off a 5-channel? Sounds even more feasible & won't overload the amp.
5. run 4 6.5's and a pair of 12's off 1 4-channel & 1 sub amp? Cost just went up considerably from #3 or #4.
6. run 6 6.5's & a pair of 12's off a 2-channel & a 5-channel? Out of budget.
7. sub enclosure in MDF okay?
8. sub enclosure in plexi necessary?
Okay, that's already too many options. What's legit amongst these? Also, last guy pitched Soundstream amps. I heard they went bankrupt several yeas ago, were bought out, and quality went downhill since the late 80's when I had their stuff in my car and it was considered "high end". Is Soundstream still quality equipment?
Somebody......anybody......need...help....please.
-MOB

ROZ
05-19-2004, 11:40 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
OK.
Stopped into several small shops that specialize in boat audio here in Sactown (Friggin Kings...damn-it!) and got some different advice at each.
1. stay away from 6x9's because they're really only good for midbass & the highs aren't that great? Not what I thought.
2. stick with 6.5's because they sound better? Not what I thought.
3. run 4 6.5's and a pair of 10's off a 5-channel? Sounds feasible but might overload the amp.
4. run 4 6.5's and a single 12 off a 5-channel? Sounds even more feasible & won't overload the amp.
5. run 4 6.5's and a pair of 12's off 1 4-channel & 1 sub amp? Cost just went up considerably from #3 or #4.
6. run 6 6.5's & a pair of 12's off a 2-channel & a 5-channel? Out of budget.
7. sub enclosure in MDF okay?
8. sub enclosure in plexi necessary?
Okay, that's already too many options. What's legit amongst these? Also, last guy pitched Soundstream amps. I heard they went bankrupt several yeas ago, were bought out, and quality went downhill since the late 80's when I had their stuff in my car and it was considered "high end". Is Soundstream still quality equipment?
Somebody......anybody......need...help....please.
-MOB
Alright...
1. Not true. I can name several brands of 6x9's that rock. They are louder by nature, but due to the shape of the cone, they usually willl distort before a comperable 6.5....
2. a good 6.5 will generally have better clarity at volume, but they do not put out as much bottom end as a 6x9 at the same volume. If 6x9's were so loud and clear, you'd see them as door speakers in competition cars. A round speaker cone is much more rigid than a 6x9... My choice is doubling up on coaxials, a great pair of seperates, , waveguides, or doubling up on a great pair of seperates if I wanted to be really LOUD and clear.
3. It's all about resistance. Get the right impedance subs and wire it to the load the good amp you choose will handle, and you shouldn't have a problem... 5 channel amps are somewhat limited. Usually the sub channel isn't more than 250 watts. Perfect if you're wanting a good sounding system that will add a good bass line and play louder thatn stock , and you're limited on space and $$. DEI has one that plays pretty well. I think they called it the 1100.5 ?
4. Again it's all about resistance. All things considered, I'd probably go 2 10's vs 1 12 if I had the space and was looking for more output. Depends on the 12, though...
5. Cost almost doubles unless you plan to do it yourself. 2 JBL's will be less than 1 high end 5 channel that will do what you may want. Remember that you'll have to add additional power wiring as well, so that cost will increase.
6. Not necessarily out of budget. Check with ither RB or me on the cost of JL's e6450 and a jl2501. THis packsge would sound really good with 6 6.5's and 1 or 2 10's or a 12.... I think Sigepmock has this setup ;) PM him for how it performs. He bought some really good stuff and I think we stayed right around 1500... Again, he did get some great speakers, so the cost could come down a bit...
7. MDF will ba allright as long as you make sure to saturate every mm with fiberglass resign; Otherwise, The MDF acts like a big smelly sponge. If you plan to replace your seatbase with a box like HH(on the ole tug:( ), 1step, Slick, and RC did, Marine ply will be the way to go.
8. Plexi is only recommended for those with the Bling factor at heart. A large enclosure won't be rigid enough unless it's made from atleast 1" thick lucite. It'll flex like RiverDave's arm two fisting a case of slivers:D
The last I heard Sound stream was making some decent gear, but you can follow the path of where all the good engineers have gone to design for...
My advise is to buy the best gear you can within your budget. Remember that you get what you pay for when you buy electronics...
hope this helps.
Chris

MOBrien
05-20-2004, 09:23 PM
Chris,
That does help. Thanks for taking the time to write a lengthy response to my lengthy request. Very cool. I'll want to stay around $1500 installed....it must be done right and I don't have the skills nor the time to do it on my own. Here's what a local shop quoted me....
New Deck-Pioneer Premier(unknown model #)
Soundstream 5-channel
Planet Audio 6.5's (4 of them)
JBL 10's w/enclosure(s)
installed with all necessary wiring
===$1500
Is this a good deal or would I be able to expand the system and still stay at approx. $1500 installed? Ideas on equipment swap-out that'll give me more sound for the bucks? With only 4 6.5's that leaves the open bow speakerless and dubbed "the quiet zone".
Thanks for your help...much appreciated!
-MOB

ROZ
05-20-2004, 11:25 PM
Is that the vga800.5 amp they're using?
500 amp
200 for 6.'s
200 for 2 10w0's
100 for misc basic wire
200 for the sub box(s)
250.00 basic labor
seems about retail right to me... Just make sure they through bolt anything heavy.. Especially the amp:eek: Also they want to use stainless hardware. Also make sure they resign whatever kind of sub box you have constructed.
make sure the RMS ratings on the amp matches the RMS ratings of your 6.5's. I'd hate to see you go through them quickly...
* Check with ScubaSteve on the planet audio speakers.
:)

LVjetboy
05-21-2004, 01:18 AM
I had 6x9's they seemed harsh or bright. Could've been distortion. Not sure why a 6x9 would be prefered over a smaller round except bass...does that extra 3 inches on one axis really improve sound quality and/or range? Especially if you already have the bass with 12's under the deck? Surely there's been tests on both? I'm no stereo expert but I learn.
As for a 3rd battery, I suppose that depends on how long you run and what level. I have one battery with 10 speakers and four 10" subs...almost 2000 watts peak power. Also a portable jump, but haven't needed yet. I'm weight limited, so only want what I need to fire the engine.
jer

riverbound
05-21-2004, 09:48 AM
MOBrien,
If you could get 12" woofers instead you will be a lot happier.
LV,
you will find different views on 6x9s vs. 6.5s. I personally recommend putting 6x9s wherever possible the 6x9s will play louder than the 6.5s
The biggest problem in putting a stereo in a boat is most shops try to build a boat like a car and the accoustics (or lack of) in a boat are different. I always recommned building a boat system to play as loud as possible and keeping the distortion to a minimum. 6X9s will generaly play louder than 6.5s before they start distorting.
just my .02
Bill

ROZ
05-21-2004, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by riverbound
I always recommned building a boat system to play as loud as possible and keeping the distortion to a minimum. 6X9s will generaly play louder than 6.5s before they start distorting.
just my .02
Bill Glad you said generally( meaning MFG and line differences), because an oval will flex linearly before a round speaker will. Physics
I'm not saying that 6x9's are bad because they are a means to an end and are better in some applications, but a round speaker is a better design.

LVjetboy
05-22-2004, 01:18 AM
"6X9s will generaly play louder than 6.5s before they start distorting"
That may be a key to this question. Do you have a reference to testing for that?
jer

MOBrien
05-25-2004, 05:10 PM
Thanks for the opinions & advice!
Think I'll be going with 6 6.5's(4 in main cabin area & 2 up front) and a pair of solid 12's under the mid cabin. I just need to ID the two amps to run that with....any ideas on two very stable, internally-fanned, cost effective amps? I won't be entering into any shows or trying to blow anyone out with this...purely for my own enjoyment. That being said, competition series sh*t isn't the right choice for me. What amps do you guys recommend for 6 6.5's and 2 12's?
Thanks!
-MOB

jbtrailerjim
05-25-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
Thanks for the opinions & advice!
Think I'll be going with 6 6.5's(4 in main cabin area & 2 up front) and a pair of solid 12's under the mid cabin. I just need to ID the two amps to run that with....any ideas on two very stable, internally-fanned, cost effective amps? I won't be entering into any shows or trying to blow anyone out with this...purely for my own enjoyment. That being said, competition series sh*t isn't the right choice for me. What amps do you guys recommend for 6 6.5's and 2 12's?
Thanks!
-MOB
That's the same set up I'm running in my boat. I'm running a Arc XXK 4050 for the 6.5's & a Arc XXK 2100 for the 12" sub's. It's not he loudest on the lake but I think it sound's excellent.

riverbound
05-26-2004, 09:30 AM
Here are some pics of a boat we just finished it has, 4 6x9s,2 12s 2 amps we just also finished the same boat but with 3 sets of 6.5 seperates and the 6x9 boat does play louder than the other one. Both boats ran the same system except for the size of the mids and highs. Head unit=alpine cda9831, Amps Rockford t1001bd & t8004, mids and highs= mbquart reference (1 had 6x9 1 had 6.5), woofers= jl 12w3v2d4.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/681Picture_341-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/681Picture_375-med.jpg
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/681Picture_371-med.jpg
River (still a fan of using 6x9s in boats)bound

rivercrazy
05-26-2004, 09:47 AM
I am also a happy camper when it comes to 6X9's in boats. I do believe that 6.5's can sound a little better. However, 6X9's are louder when powered sufficently IMO in a boating application.
My Infinity Kappa 693.5i's are louder than my Infinity Kappa Perfect 6.5's despite getting less ampifier power. (130RMS versus about 90 RMS respectively)

ROZ
05-26-2004, 09:48 AM
I'm trying to think of any inexpensive dependable amps that have internal fans..... Last years PG Titaniums did, but they weren't inexpensive and they still go into termal protection when in tight quarters on a boat... Toby can vouch for that...
I always recommend putting fans on on anything going into a boat and that will bedriven hard.
Look at the:
JBL PX300.4 and it's BPX500.1 for the subs
Alpine MRVF340 and a MRPM350 for the sub
JLAudio E6450 (economy 6 channel)and a JL 2501 for the sub
DEI 250.4 and a 350D for the subs
That's the few off the top of my head that I can think of...

MOBrien
05-26-2004, 01:00 PM
ROZ & river guys,
thanks, once again you didn't disappoint with the quick feedback and I appreciate it. In an effort to save some room and work with the speaker holes that are already there, I am going with the 6.5's. How does a 4 channel amp run 6 speakers? Isn't that a recipe for overheating the amp? Also ROZ, what's an approximate cost comparison on those amps you were talkin about? For the wife, cost is a HUGE issue on this thing because in her mind "we don't need a thumpin stereo!!":eek: Ohhhh, there's where you are wrong my dear, we absoutely DO need that!!:D :D :D
Thanx again guys.
-MOB

rivercrazy
05-26-2004, 01:05 PM
This is where it gets sticky with the $$$$ thing. IMHO you would be better off with more than one amp to drive those 6 speakers. I'd go with two 2 channel amps.....One that is 2 ohm stable driving 4 of the speakers and one other one driving the other two at 4 ohms.....

riverbound
05-26-2004, 01:11 PM
If cost is a really important issue buy one GOOD 5 or 6 channel amp and buy some good crossflow fans (the ones that are a long tube with fins) I have run this setup many time to 6 speakers and 1to 2 subs with no problems. I actually run this same setup in my moms boat.
Head=alpine cda9827
amp=PPI5440 (older model)
mids& highs= 2 pr.eclipse 6.5, 1pr. eclipse 6x9
Sub=Rockford 12"xlc
This system works out really well and plays all day at the sandbar on 2 optima blue tops at party level.

MOBrien
05-26-2004, 01:34 PM
Riverbound,
didn't you say that you just completed a 6x6.5 & 2x12 setup on two amps? But you don't recommend it? Am I confused here...please elaborate it you have a minute?
Also,
Don't get me wrong, I'm not lookin to put Jensen equip in this thing. I just don't have any need or desire to put competition grade stuff......it's just out of the Q in cost. Good middle of the road equip that'll satisfy me, the wife, and friends while sippin the goose out in the middle is what we're after. Extreme loudness is not the goal. Good, clean sound is....not eye-squinting & ear blaring volume.
As for cooling. The area for amp installation is not enclosed. It is set back against the deck panel about 3-4 feet from the opening in front of the driver/passenger. In the walk through there is also a reach in hole that is about the size of two sheets of paper side-by-side. What I'm getting at is that there is plenty of ventilation and air flow through that area....that's where the subs are going too.
-MOB

phebus
05-26-2004, 01:35 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by riverbound
I actually run this same setup in my moms boat.
[/QUOTE
Hey, I'm running the same setup as riverbounds mom. :D :eek:
Your friends will love it when you tell them that :D

phebus
05-26-2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by riverbound
buy some good crossflow fans (the ones that are a long tube with fins)
Riverbound, do you sell those fans? If so, can you post a picture and let me know what they cost?
Thanks

riverbound
05-26-2004, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
Riverbound,
didn't you say that you just completed a 6x6.5 & 2x12 setup on two amps? But you don't recommend it? Am I confused here...please elaborate it you have a minute?
-MOB
If you are refering to the first boat I was talking about The customer would not listen to me and had to have the 6 6.5s The part I dont recommmend is the use of 6.5s where 6x9s will fit.
In the case of my mom's boat there were factory locations where only 6.5s would fit.

ROZ
05-26-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by phebus
Riverbound, do you sell those fans? If so, can you post a picture and let me know what they cost?
Thanks
Not RB, but....
http://www.sfxaudio.com/products/images/63278.jpg
http://selectproducts.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/media/fan80.jpg www.Selectproducts.com has them for 27.00

riverbound
05-26-2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by phebus
[QUOTE]Originally posted by riverbound
I actually run this same setup in my moms boat.
[/QUOTE
Hey, I'm running the same setup as riverbounds mom. :D :eek:
Your friends will love it when you tell them that :D
If it is any consolation I do use the boat quite often:D

rvrjunkie
05-26-2004, 10:09 PM
7. MDF will ba allright as long as you make sure to saturate every mm with fiberglass resign; Otherwise, The MDF acts like a big smelly sponge. If you plan to replace your seatbase with a box like HH(on the ole tug:( ), 1step, Slick, and RC did, Marine ply will be the way to go.
Chris [/B][/QUOTE]
What is the advantage to fiberglass resign a sub box. Is it for better sound or to kept it from getting wet and becoming a smell sponge? Would you need to resign one that is under the bow and away from water?

ROZ
05-26-2004, 10:47 PM
Originally posted by rvrjunkie
What is the advantage to fiberglass resign a sub box. Is it for better sound or to kept it from getting wet and becoming a smell sponge? Would you need to resign one that is under the bow and away from water? While resigning a wood enclosure in a boat is primarily for water resistant purposes, it will also add a little strength and likely help prevent flexing of the wood from the internal pressure created by a moving woofer as well. I'd coat any wood that goes into a boat... Even a beauty board that won't see a drop of water ;)

rivercrazy
05-27-2004, 07:59 AM
I'd stay away from MDF in a boating application. Its only a matter of time before the humid environment and water will take its toll on the box.
Go with 3/4" marine plywood that is resined and glassed. Or like others have spoken about, a custom fiberglass enclosure.
Just my opinion

MOBrien
06-23-2004, 05:02 PM
Yep, this post is back and I need some more advice from you guys. Figured I'd just re-instate this one so you may remember me. Here goes------------------------
My local stereo guy recommended 4 Eclipse 6.5's & 2 Eclipse 6x9's running off an Arc XXK4050 and a pair of JL12's gettin it from a JL5001 ....or maybe drop to one 12 and power it with the JL2501 to save some coin. As well, a Pioneer Premier head unit (servo'd swing out face with all the EQ bells-n-whistles and full color graphics/remote)..not sure of the model # but it's pretty jazzy.
Thoughts?...professional opinions on this config? Would average stereo joe (that's me) be happy with this installed at approx. $2000...or less if I went with the single 12/JL2501 setup. Good deal or no?
Also, I have installed my fair share of stereo's back in the day of my hammered VW GTi's...and am not opposed to spending time on a weekend to do the layout & installation. Anyone got an idea on what the above mentioned equip would cost if I were to buy it from a discount broker and could avoid full retail?
Thanx!
A penny saved, is another penny towards more HP!

jbtrailerjim
06-23-2004, 09:43 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
Yep, this post is back and I need some more advice from you guys. Figured I'd just re-instate this one so you may remember me. Here goes------------------------
My local stereo guy recommended 4 Eclipse 6.5's & 2 Eclipse 6x9's running off an Arc XXK4050 and a pair of JL12's gettin it from a JL5001
I'm running an Arc XXK 4050 to power my Arc 6.5" and I'm running an Arc XXK 2100 to push my Arc 12" sub's. I'm by no means an expert when it come to stereo stuff. But I was more interested in having a clean sounding system than just having a loud ok sounding system. So, that's what my installer recomended. I'm probably gonna add 1 more set of 6.5" and one more Arc XXK 4050 amp. I think if you go with Arc you will be happy with the performance of the amps.

riverbound
06-23-2004, 10:25 PM
That system will give you what you are looking for. Are the Eclipse speakers the se series? If they are you will be very happy with this setup we use the eclipse se speakers in most of the boats we do. stay away from the Eclipse point source speakers. The price seems very fair. Good luck with it it sounds like you are on the right track.

MOBrien
06-24-2004, 10:34 AM
Thanks for jumping back in guys. A really appreciate your input. Yes, I do believe the Eclipses were the Se line. Should I commit to the JL amp for the subs or go with the ARC 2100(or larger) to keep the system uniform by way of power? Also, I have dual batt's, yet he is recommending adding a third. Necessary? Lastly, Is it easy to have them wire in an additional remote to the bow section?
Thanks again!!!
-MOB

Dan Lorenze
06-24-2004, 03:58 PM
I currently have 2-12" Sony Explod subs under the bow being powered by a 1000w Sony Explod amp. Also I have 4 no-name 6x9's in the cabin w/ 2 flush mount tweeters in the dashboard powered by a 400 watt Lanzar amp in my Mini daycruiser. It sounds great but it's just not loud enough. In the cockpit the music sounds full and deep. The only problem is when we're on the beach you can hardly hear the music.... the boat sounds like it has an AM radio.... What should I do?
Dan :D

MOBrien
06-24-2004, 07:34 PM
DL,
Is your engine compartment open or hatched? If it's hatched, you can mount a pair of 6x9's on the underside of the hatch in small enclosures. When you're hanging out on the beach and want to hear your tunes....just open the hatch to reveal those 6x9's that would end up firing toward the beach if you're bow-in....or install them on swivel mounts (like those used in home theater)so you could fire them down the beach, or in whatever direction, if you wanted to. If you do this you must be careful on the install though. If it's not done right it will look cheesy. I've seen pics of good and bad installs like this.
That's my $.02....I'm thinking of doing something like this if I run into your same problem.

ROZ
06-24-2004, 10:22 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
Thanks for jumping back in guys. A really appreciate your input. Yes, I do believe the Eclipses were the Se line. Should I commit to the JL amp for the subs or go with the ARC 2100(or larger) to keep the system uniform by way of power? Also, I have dual batt's, yet he is recommending adding a third. Necessary? Lastly, Is it easy to have them wire in an additional remote to the bow section?
Thanks again!!!
-MOB I can guarante that either of the amps that interest will not let you down....
Another battery will give you more play time.
Yes, the install of an additional remote is not a hard installation. It would probably only take them about 45minto do...

ROZ
06-24-2004, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by MOBrien
Yep, this post is back and I need some more advice from you guys. Figured I'd just re-instate this one so you may remember me. Here goes------------------------
My local stereo guy recommended 4 Eclipse 6.5's & 2 Eclipse 6x9's running off an Arc XXK4050 and a pair of JL12's gettin it from a JL5001 ....or maybe drop to one 12 and power it with the JL2501 to save some coin. As well, a Pioneer Premier head unit (servo'd swing out face with all the EQ bells-n-whistles and full color graphics/remote)..not sure of the model # but it's pretty jazzy.
Thoughts?...professional opinions on this config? Would average stereo joe (that's me) be happy with this installed at approx. $2000...or less if I went with the single 12/JL2501 setup. Good deal or no?
Also, I have installed my fair share of stereo's back in the day of my hammered VW GTi's...and am not opposed to spending time on a weekend to do the layout & installation. Anyone got an idea on what the above mentioned equip would cost if I were to buy it from a discount broker and could avoid full retail?
Thanx!
A penny saved, is another penny towards more HP! The answer to all of the above is Yes..... :cool:

Dan Lorenze
06-25-2004, 05:28 AM
MOBrien, That's a great idea!!!! Yes, I do have a nice big engine cover that pops up.. You've got me thinking.... A nice pair of small (but good) box speakers or somthing.. I can mount them inside the frame of the engine cover... Thanks
Dan :D

MOBrien
06-25-2004, 08:04 AM
DL,
Tell you what, whoever gets it done first....post pics for the other. Hint - Make sure to run the wires to the hatch hinges and keep them hidden and well secured so they will never dangle! This may be obvious too, but also make sure to keep the enclosures as far TO the front & outside edge of the hatch as possible and away from the motor...it does get hot in there ya know. Sounds like you might be ahead of me on the urgency and if that's the case, I'd love to see what you come up with. Doesn't seem like it'd be very tough to accomplish, and as I think about it more, why limit yourself with a set installation angle/direction? I'd go with the swivel mounts so you don't have to always be bow-in. If the swivels are mounted creatively, you can have tunes on the shore no matter how your boat sits in the water.
Good luck with it & keep us posted.
Hey ROZ & Riverbound & Rivercrazy. You guys seem to really know your shiaaat and we really appreciate your views on this stuff. Too bad you're not in Sac-town...you'd be workin on my boat for sure. WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON THE UNDERHATCH 6x9 SWIVEL ENCLOSURE IDEA?
Thanks again guys,
MOB

rivercrazy
06-25-2004, 09:52 AM
Your more than welcome MoB. But I'm really just a hack/newby at this stuff :p But thanks to a few guys on this board and my Pop, I'm learning.
Like your idea of the under engine hatch 6X9's or speakers. The only thing I'd do in conjunction with that is to have the ability to turn those speakers off when the hatch is closed. Why waste the amplifer power and risk heating them up when not enjoying them. :D

MOBrien
06-25-2004, 10:32 AM
No doubt, that's a great point......how the hell do you do that? Can an A/B switch be installed on a car/boat stereo like that of a home theater receiver to turn those off?
ROZ & RBound..........What's yer take on this?
Also, there's been a lot of mention about JBL power series amps....how much of a savings can be accomplished by using them vs. going with JL, ARC, Zapco, etc...? The more I think about this, the more I know the wife is gonna lose it. The spot in my boat for the amps is pretty open, gets lots of air flow, so I might not have to go with amps that have internal fans...they should stay pretty cool in this particular location. If not I can mount small fans under the deck to cool them and save some duckets.:D Will I even notice a difference between the JBL's vs. the others I mentioned?
sick of me yet?:p

rivercrazy
06-25-2004, 10:39 AM
If your head unit has 3 sets of preouts, you could wire up those engine hatch speakers off the rear channels and just fade them off from the head unit. Or install a switch to turn them off in line with the speaker wires.
IMO you will not hear a decline in SQ by using JBL amplifers. They produce clean, reliable, underrated power. The build quality is solid. A clean watt is a clean watt period.
I've been running a JBL 1200.1, a P180.2, and a PX600.2 for quite a while. No problems with heat, shutdown, or problems of any kind. You might look at the PX and BPX series. They are newer and put out more power than the older Power series. But the footprint increased a bit.:D

riverbound
06-25-2004, 10:50 AM
Originally posted by MOBrien
ROZ & RBound..........What's yer take on this?
You should try these:D
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/681Picture_354-med.jpg
sick of me yet?:p
no not yet

MOBrien
06-25-2004, 10:55 AM
those are the ones I was lookin at on ebay last night....pretty inexpensive compared to the JL, ARC, & Zapco's.
And they sound great with no heating problems??? Do you have fans spotted on them?

ROZ
06-25-2004, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
If your head unit has 3 sets of preouts, you could wire up those engine hatch speakers off the rear channels and just fade them off from the head unit. Or install a switch to turn them off in line with the speaker wires.
He could run them from the deck 2 easy ways:
1. Run the 4channel in a 2ch in/ 4ch out mode from the front rca's, and the hatch speaker amp run off the deck's rear channels.
2. Run the 4 channel off the deck utilizing the normal rca connections, but use the amp's preout(if it has one) to take RCA's to the second amp running the deck lid's speakers.
Either way I'd wire a seperate remote turn-on lead from a toggle switch of some sort. That way the amp is only drawing current when the unit is physically turned on vs being on witht the music faded off...
Originally posted by rivercrazy
IMO you will not hear a decline in SQ by using JBL amplifers. They produce clean, reliable, underrated power. The build quality is solid. A clean watt is a clean watt period.
I've been running a JBL 1200.1, a P180.2, and a PX600.2 for quite a while. No problems with heat, shutdown, or problems of any kind. You might look at the PX and BPX series. They are newer and put out more power than the older Power series. But the footprint increased a bit.:D
Cheerleader :p ;) :D
Definitely worth a look at their price...

rivercrazy
06-25-2004, 11:51 AM
You just need to start carrying them Roz! :D
Actually I think the PX and BPX series are everybit as good as the other amps you mentioned.
No heat related problems and I do not have permanent fans mounted on them. I do have them mounted on feet so the amps don't sit directly on their carpeted wood mounting location. Sometimes when I know I'm gonna crank the stereo a really loud levels for extended periods, I have small D cell powered portable fans I run on them. But the amps really never got hot. Especially the class D. At 1 ohm it never even gets beyond warm. The A/B's get on the high side of warm but never really hot (@ 2 ohms).

ROZ
06-25-2004, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by rivercrazy
You just need to start carrying them Roz! :D
Actually I think the PX and BPX series are everybit as good as the other amps you mentioned.
No heat related problems and I do not have permanent fans mounted on them. I do have them mounted on feet so the amps don't sit directly on their carpeted wood mounting location. Sometimes when I know I'm gonna crank the stereo a really loud levels for extended periods, I have small D cell powered portable fans I run on them. But the amps really never got hot. Especially the class D. At 1 ohm it never even gets beyond warm. The A/B's get on the high side of warm but never really hot (@ 2 ohms).
I can get them and Infinity from a distributor, but I have to get a master carton....

MOBrien
06-25-2004, 10:39 PM
OK,
Here's what's on ebay RIGHT NOW....
JBL px300.4's = $265 ea
JBL Bpx 1100.1 = $550 ea
JL E6450 = $325 ea
JL 500.1 = $385 ea
All are listed as brand new in the box and are "buy it now" prices. Again, I'm going to run the following speakers:
2 JL, Eclipse, or Pioneer 12's
2 Eclipse 6x9's
4 Eclipse 6.5's
Should I stick with the two JL amps at these prices...seems low?
....this is ridiculous, I have no freaking idea what I'm doing. There are waaaaaayyyyyy toooooooo maaaaannnnyyy oppppttiionns and my brain is melting from my inability to make a gaud damn decision!!!!!!!!!
I need a therapist.......oh wait, my wife is waiting in bed. hehehe
see ya.
:p :D :sleeping:

HP350SC
07-07-2004, 07:29 PM
Here's my inexpensive install I'm just finishing up. (4) no name 6X9's and (2) 12" subs. Pioneer cd player and Planet Audio amp. Actually sounds extemely loud and clear.
Prices: 12" Eminence woofers $76 each (2 inch voice coils, long excursion)
6X9 4 way speakers $80 for all 4
Pioneer 3500 $229
1 sheet 3/4 plywood $60
4X8 carpet $15
stainless hardware $65
Planet audio P600.5 $350ish but got for $100
8 gauge wiring at Home depot 1/4 cost of stereo shop.
$700 total.
I through bolted everything with flathead allen bolts and beauty rings, flat washers and locknuts on back. Amp has 4 mounting slots that are open on the end, so I drilled an extra bolt in the center of each flange.

HP350SC
07-07-2004, 07:29 PM
another...

HP350SC
07-07-2004, 07:30 PM
last...

riverbound
07-08-2004, 08:52 AM
Are you happy with the sound?
looks good:)

HP350SC
07-08-2004, 10:58 AM
Thanks Riverbound, came out all right for not being an installer. Made a whole new bulkhead panel. Yes, it goes loud enough that you can't stand sitting in the boat for long, and does not distort at that level. Only thing (which I expected) was mids and highs are directional and it could use some front speakers. Haven't figured out where to place them yet. May just go with surface mount tweeters on dash. Could power using the head unit amp I suppose.
You know, I went to cartoys and listened to two 12" JL woofs. in a box ($380)with 400 wrms powering them, and was not impressed. AND they wanted $650! a pair for Focal 6 1/2's. There is no fu..ing way! Ya know what kind of driver that buys in home stereo equipment?! I'll stick with the inexpensive stuff. $20 for a 6X9 and so what if someone kicks it or whatever it's cheap to replace. It really does sound good and I have a nice home stereo so I know what good is:wink::)

riverbound
07-13-2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by HP350SC
Only thing (which I expected) was mids and highs are directional and it could use some front speakers. Haven't figured out where to place them yet. May just go with surface mount tweeters on dash.
Post a pic of the side panel from the front seat to the bulkhead I thinkI have an idea that will work for your front speakers

HP350SC
07-13-2004, 06:57 PM
Thanks for your help. These 6X9's sound surprisingly good, especially for the money. Only cheesy part about them was the grill mesh had no retainers, I put 4 tiny beads of clear silicone to hold them good. Maybe I'll get some nice billet covers later.
The side panel stops at the front seats, and the area is open. That's where I stick fenders and stuff. There is enough room on the bulkhead for another pair of speakers, but not the best location either. I don't need more volume, just some well placed mid/highs to fire from front to back. Something like a 4or5" coax would fit on the flat part of dash at the far right and to the left of the steering wheel. I just don't want to cut the dash???

riverbound
07-13-2004, 07:08 PM
You can do one of two things. build a pod that will hold a 6x9 that will fit in the tunnel and amd aim it up and towrds your head. Or what we did in our 22 SST was mount the front pair on the bulkhead firing back, I don tknow of this will work for you though.
I have built pods in the tunnels out if fiberglass but I don't know of your skill level. You could probably use some sort of prefab 6x9 box and put it down there and angle it up to you.
You should try either one of these and if you have any questions you can always ask.
stay away form the 4" coax (way too small for a boat). just adding tweeters will not sound good either.

HP350SC
07-13-2004, 07:28 PM
Thanks Bill! No fibergass experience so...hello 6X9's on the bulkhead. :D I had old Altec fiber cone 6X9 coax speakers in the wedge type boxes on last boat and they sounded poor. Not enough internal volume in box I think. I tried adding internal damping foam too and still sucked(no low end). Tossed the boxes. Tried them in an infinite baffle arrangement and presto...sounded decent.

riverbound
07-13-2004, 07:31 PM
Originally posted by HP350SC
Thanks Bill! No fibergass experience so...hello 6X9's on the bulkhead. :D I had old Altec fiber cone 6X9 coax speakers in the wedge type boxes on last boat and they sounded poor. Not enough internal volume in box I think. I tried adding internal damping foam too and still sucked(no low end). Tossed the boxes. Tried them in an infinite baffle arrangement and presto...sounded decent.
Well there you go. Or this could be your chance to learn how to use fiberglass.:D

ROZ
07-13-2004, 08:52 PM
All but a few coaxial and component speakers are designed to be run infinite baffle.... Doors and trunks don't have protocall for volume among car manufacturers..... They do have limits, though....
A little fleece, resign, fiberglass, and a shake will do your body good.... ;) :D

Beer-30
06-21-2005, 04:53 PM
Riverbound:
Why not the PointSources instead of the SEs? I am about to replace 1-pair of the 6x9s in Beer-30 with Eclipses, but was gonna go with the Points.
In my truck, I have the Component 6.5s and respective tweeters in the front doors. PointSource 5.25s in the rear doors and PointSource 4s in the rear cab-corners. An Eclipse PA-5422 runs them with a 5504 head unit and 21010 EQ. The bass is all RF, 2-10XLCs with a Punch 125.2 running to them at 2Ohms. I have been so happy with this system for almost 7 years with nothing replaced! I am definitely an Eclipse fan! So clean.
Anyway, if I turn the fader up to the front components and then back to the rear PointSources, I could almost be happier with the rears! I am just curious why not the PointSource 6x9s?