Adding a blower, What kinda trouble? [Archive]

12-23-2002, 02:54 PM

You can try to bolt on the systems (pretty easy for carburated applications) with a 3-4 lbs boost set up without any other mods. If you go higher than that, you would want to consider changing compression ration, connecting rods, while your at it, forged pistons and heck, throw in a cam.
I know a few guys using 7 lbs boost on stock motors and getting away with it. Others have not been so lucky. The other thing to consider is that if the outdrive can handle the new power. If you are on a budget, then I would reccomend a 3-4 lbs set up for now, and when you get the budget, you can go for more HP done properly. I speak from experience!!! My most expensive mistakes have been when I was on a budget and chose a cheaper route.
So my answer is a definite maybe!!

SteveDavid

12-23-2002, 06:50 PM

Eric,
If you've not owned a high performance power boat before, it might be a good idea to buy one of you're liking with stock (warranteed) power. Get use to it, how you're going to use it, etc. It's difficult to find one that does it all: ski, tubing, top end, lakes, offshore ocean etc. Somewhere you find a "happy medium".
The more HP you have, the greater your front end expense and ongoing expense. If it's an outdrive boat a blower will shorten the life of almost any drive (except a #6 or equivalent, and then you're talking better than $35,000 for a drive and tranny before you ever get an engine, hull etc.)
All that said, warning labels and all :) , I run Whipples on my boat and have found them virtually trouble free. They were bolt on as advertised. We did them while the engines were in the boat, and it was 15 hours per engine. Much of that time dedicated to wiring and plumbing. We have triple engines.
Aside from the cost of the Blowers, we bought new XR drives, new props, etc. You can buy blower kits from as low as $3,500 to $7,000 or so, depending on how hi tech you want to get. A conventional Roots blower with a carburetor is the least expensive, while moving on to the Whipple or Procharger etc. gets you in the higher numbers because of the fuel injection, computer control, etc.
HolyMoly and Blown 472 have asked you some good questions. Consider those before spending the big $$$$$$. If you're in the South Florida area anytime soon, give a call and I'd be happy to show you our installation and explain what it took for the conversion.
Good luck! Oh yeah, did I notice you were an Ohio State fan?? See you at the bowl game, I'm a Hurricane. argue

Stupid Fast

12-24-2002, 03:45 AM

SteveDavid:
Eric,
Oh yeah, did I notice you were an Ohio State fan?? See you at the bowl game, I'm a Hurricane. argue Remember these Names: Doss, Nickey, Whilhelm, & Gamble. devil
Other Than That, Thanks for the info. What I am looking to do is get a 21-23 foot open bow in the spring with stock power and an XZ or XR drive. Run it all summer(learn the boat before it is overpowered), then add power(whipple or procharger) next winter. The main thing that I am having a hard time deciding is 6.2 or 496 stock to start with. My goal is 500+/- horsepower in a 21 foot boat by 2004. As far as Use; it would never be in the ocean but it may end up in Lake Erie(sometimes worse without the salt) but mostly on local lakes and rivers.
Thanks Again
Go Bucks
Eric

SteveDavid

12-24-2002, 05:31 AM

Eric,
Actually I'm both an OSU fan and a Hurricane. Mom was a Buckeye as are most of my cousins. Our Family hails from Columbus and a little town 70 miles south of there: Jackson. Still have some cousins in the Laurel Canyon subdivision. Larry Eisenman, he's a pediatric dentist, and my late Aunt worked at Grant memorial since time began....
As for your boat plans. As the price difference is not that significant between a small block and BBC I'd go with the 496. There is no substitute for cubic inches when it comes to boating. Unlike a car, a boat is always under load which makes Torque the controlling factor. Adding a Blower to the 496 will get you to your HP goal without having to go wild with boost and other modifications.
Very rarely, like never, will you say to yourself I wish I had a smaller engine :)
As to the Bowl game, may they play well and congratulations to the winner, they are both championship teams.
Take care,
Steve

mbrown2

12-24-2002, 09:20 AM

Ditto what SteveDavid said...go with the bigger cubes...the motor will not have to work as hard to make that horsepower...In addition, if you are going to add the Whipple later, make sure the Manufacture takes that into account when making the Engine hatch, and back bench location...After you add the whipple, you still don't want to hack things up later.

NashvilleBound

12-24-2002, 10:36 PM

Stupid Fast: Call Gary at GT Performance in Montclair CA. He is the master at Whipples. He's even listed on their advertisment in ***boat Mag. He did one on my HP500EFI clean, but I think theres more to it than "bolting on". He will tell you straight up what the deal is, no BS. They make loud booms if done wrong. For the money, get a professional. Just my opinion....NB

NashvilleBound

12-24-2002, 10:37 PM

Whipple Charged

12-24-2002, 11:43 PM

The 6.2 is a great engine depending on what your going to do with it. Putting a supercharger on is not a problem when you give it the proper air, fuel and spark, you can run up to 8lbs. in these little puppies if needed, they can really be abused, but there are some drawbacks depending on what your driving style is, here are some:
1. There is no oil cooler, hard to keep pistons cool under long throttle periods without oil cooler, also see next problem, directly related.
2. This system has a 5qt oil system, this mixed with no cooler, hard to stay on the throttle with exceeded psi's (no matter what SC).
3. Pistons are hyperuetitic, no problem under normal conditions, but if numbers 1 or 2 create problems, the piston will come apart, so 1 and 2 are problems under hard driving. The majority of piston cooling is your oil. Remember the Porsches with oil injection on the bottom side of the pistons?
4. Ignition sucks monkey poop :) We add a MSD-6M2 and change the plug gap from the standard .05 to .035".
If you want to run hard and reliable, I would at least add an oil cooler (large capacity, will add another few qts to the system) and possibly a oil pan such as a Olson or Dooley (preferably minimum 8qt).
Thanks,
Dustin

Stupid Fast

12-25-2002, 04:53 AM

Dustin, what kind of hosepower can you get @ 8lbs.? How is the 496 project coming along? Thanks for the info. An oil cooler seems to me would help even a stock block. Any how thank you all for the info. When I get into the project I am sure I will have Alot more questions. (notice how I pick power first then find a boat to put it in?) Is that normal?
Merry Christmas
Eric

NashvilleBound

12-25-2002, 07:36 AM

Dustin: Monkey poop??? lol... Thats a good one. Do you recommend different plug/heat range now that I have your Whipple system on my HP?
Were you able to get your sled out and get some numbers? That was quite a project Gary was working on. Jeff

Infomaniac

12-25-2002, 07:37 AM

Here you go Eric. We will list this Ultra for sale soon. PM me if interested.
454 MPI Will take a whipple or pro charger.
http://members.cox.net/shotglass/Ultra1sm.jpg
[ December 25, 2002, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

Whipple Charged

12-25-2002, 10:14 PM

Stupidfast, just a tad bit over 520hp. Depends on rpm range and total timing. Don't worry about picking the engine, very common, thats a true power junkie :D 496 is finally done, were probably going to be shipping next week. We were testing in the snow a few days ago to validate 5500 feet elevation.
Nashvillebound, a bit goofy huh? :D Waiting for some new props. Pretty sad that I don't even have enough time too finish my own project!! :D Gary does a good job finishing the project, I had it 75% completed for about a year. Were going to be running it at Havasu next weekend.
Stock heat range is fine for your engine. MSD wires are a good purchase when it's time to change wires. Aluminum heads are also a good choice.
Thanks,
Dustin

XLGPP

12-26-2002, 04:39 PM

stupid fast, one other thing to cosider, dont even mess with the XZ drive... Save yourself now and spend the extra for the XR.. I have a 500hp with a whipple on a 27ft cat... built it with an XZ, it only lasted about 50 hrs... and most are surprised it lasted that long... I am putting an XR sportmaster on now, and will be runnin and gunnin again come spring break at havasu....see ya'll there...
btw, Dustin: I wasnt taking a shot at Whipple in my earlier posts, just still looking for knowledge about my previous problems.. Whipple is a very stand up company and I would still choose whipple over any others... and when Im running right... My boat SCREAMZZZZZ!!!!!

Whipple Charged

12-26-2002, 10:15 PM

xlgp, I know, just trying to give accurate info, I think its a bigger picture than the ECU, the time just have no effects on the ECU, it doesn't even have an internal clock or anything. Steve David has actually had the XZ's on his triple 43 Black Thunder and runs it in the ocean, so they can last, but going with the XR sportmaster should be really good, but remember the XR takes more power to operate so it may rub some speed off, possibly with the sportmaster, you gain that back and then some.
Thanks,
Dustin

565edge

12-26-2002, 10:25 PM

Dustin i read in a earlier(Way earlier thread)that you guys offered a re-placement core for a lee's intercooler(for a 8-71),you said lee's had problems with cracking at the outlet weld on the bung and they get clogged easily,I've heard this from many of people,anyways i have sent you a p.m. and have called around 10 times,they wont let me talk to you and i always get Mitch(I believe that was his name),anyways i still havent heard of availibility or cost from either of you,We need one,could you help me out?What oil shold use in my blower(1994 k1500 350 whipple)do i need to drain and check oil often,thanks allen.I found the thread.Whipple Charged
Registered User
Member # 2046
Member Rated:
posted June 11, 2002 07:46 PM
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The Lee has a larger core and more square area than the Superchiller and will cool the air more depending on which boost level. The higher you go, the further the temps are different. The Lee is more expensive, it also has smaller passages which can lead to clogging more frequently, the Superchiller is pretty open and is supported a bit better so it's core is more robust. The Lee can sometimes crack because of all the water setting in it with the engine vibration and constant pressure against it.
We have our intercooler and have replacement cores for the Lee that have larger passages, are made of Cupronickel/copper which is far superior to aluminum cores and will never corrode. It is also a much more heavy duty construction for the constant abuse the marine enviornment places on the units.
Thanks,
Dustin
[ December 26, 2002, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: 565edge ]

Stupid Fast

12-26-2002, 10:26 PM

Thanks for all the info. I would think that an xz would hold up for a while @ 500 horse on a 21-23 foot boat. I guess I will find out. eek! What are some good books to learn up on supercharging? Before I buy I feel I need a lot more knoledge. Dustin, when are you writing a book? I would buy it.
One other Question:
Why can you get mor horsepower out of a small block 6.2 than an older 454 mpi?
Thanks again,
Eric

XLGPP

12-27-2002, 09:03 AM

I have heard that I will lose some power with the XR drive, but knowone seems to know how much.. any idea?
Dustin: should the sportmaster give most of it back?

SteveDavid

12-27-2002, 11:48 PM

RE: XR, Sportsmaster etc.
The drop in propshaft HP between the XR and bevel cut geared XV was nominal in our tests. We went to XR's about 120 hours ago and have been trouble free. We did encounter blackened geardrive oil the first 5 hours, but that subsided after 25 hours and another lube change. We're running the green Hi-Perf Merc lube and change it every 50 hours The theory of HP drain is premised on the straight cut gears in the XR taking more power to turn. As Dustin noted, all of our running is open Ocean at sustained RPMS. (An attaboy is due Dustin, he came to Florida back in the spring and rode with us for a weekend, laptop in toe, and recalibrated our ECU's. Ever since, these engines have run as smooth and docile as any non supercharged engine. No plug fouling, 750 RPM idle, no exhaust residue, and good power throughout the RPM range) He's not much to look at but his Sister is stunning wink
I've recently tested another Black Thunder with the Sportsmaster units and indeed they are a bit quicker than a standard Bravo lower unit. The torpedo design creates more laminar flow of the water over the drive and enhances propeller efficiency. Same boat, same HP, same prop and slip is reduced by almost 35% with the sportmaster. If there is any downside, it's that you may need to drop one pitch size if you change from a Bravo lower to a sportmaster or IMCO equivalent.
Another benefit of the Sportmaster is you can run a higher X dimension (If you're building the boat new it's easier to do this now then as a refit later). With better water flow and a 2 inch deeper skeg, it's pretty safe to raise your X by at least an inch if not higher. If you plan on waterksiing etc. keep the X dimension conservative.
When Benny Robertson and I were racing the F-276 FOUNTAIN GMC in 2001 and 2002 we switched from XR lower units to Sportsmaters with XR uppers and raised the X almost 2 inches. We picked up over 6 MPH and actually enhanced ride stability. This was a 35 Fountain with a canopy and very low center of gravity.
If I were to re-order my Black Thunder I'd go with the XR and sportmaster unit from the get go. As it is I have the Bravo XR lowers and will keep them until they puke and then switch over.
Good luck!

unleashed

12-28-2002, 12:21 AM

Hey SteveDavid Thats a nice area you live in. I drove through there years ago when I visited friends in Boca Rotan.
Please post some photos of your boat. What do you get out of the triples with a 43????
I may be out there in early spring to have some fun.
Deano
Unleashedclothing (http://www.unleashedclothing.com)

SteveDavid

12-28-2002, 01:12 AM

Thanks Unleashed.
My wife just bought us a digital camera for Christmas and once I learn how to use it.... I'll upload some photos. I'm of the pre technology age:)
Our Black Thunder runs 93.9 MPH with 5 adults, full fuel (300 gallons) with the P-5 Hydromotives. 95.9 MPH with same load and bravo 4 blades (labbed), both speeds at 5300 RPM with 1.36 gearing. We run the P-5's most of the time for better cruising speed 3500 RPM=66 MPH with P-5's and 3500 RPM=63 MPH with the Bravos.
Take care, if you're near Lighthouse Point in the spring, look us up. I need very little excuse to skip the office and go boating !
Steve

XLGPP

12-28-2002, 12:48 PM

SteveDavid: i was running the xz with a bravo 30 prop... i have decided on the xr sportmaster for sure... do i stay with the standard or the short? i have 500hp with whipple.. im pretty sure i had 1.5 ratio, i was told that i definately want 1.5 with the xr even if I had 1.36 in the xz... any input/advice?
at 4500 ft i was turning 5100-5200 rpm (87mph) and at havasu 5500-5600 rpm (99mph in smooth water, prolly could get 104) with that same prop. will I have to change props? and should I be able to keep same performance?

Whipple Charged

12-28-2002, 07:27 PM

XLGPP,
How does the boat plane now, any cavitation going over the bubble? Does it take a lot of trim to get free? I would probably go with the shorter unit and if you have to (because of a problem), put a spacer in it. But I would go with the shortest unit and the 5 blade heiring or hydromotive prop. Also, one thing you should be doing is running a smaller pulley at 4500 feet, you roughly only have 3lbs. of boost, get it up near 5-6 and you'll certainly be in the 90's. Also, in your situation, you must have the 1.36 gear and thats what I would stick with.
Hey Stevo, I even got a hair cut and shaved for ya :D ! You know even though my sister is older, I'm smarter :D , she tells customers, "I have one of them screw thingy's on my car and it can spin the tires!" :D
565edge, we don't stock the cores, only special order, they are $1695 because of limited production and cupronickel/copper is way more expensive. We can have them in about 4 weeks.
Stupidfast, man if I could collect all my post and ramblings :D , I would have one heck of a book, of course it would probably be so disorganizied that nobody would read it :) But to answer your question about the 454 vs. the 6.2, theres quite a few reasons, head design, although similar concepts, they flat out don't work great on the big block, run very little timing, low rpm, etc. The small block rpms much easier, has better parts, runs more boost because the smaller piston allows for a shorter flame. Not only that, the 6.2 makes a bunch of torque! It comes down to engine efficiency, just think of racing engines and how much power they make. The 454 MPI has to be one of the worst engines around :( The older LX was way better if you can believe that!
Thanks,
Dustin

SteveDavid

12-29-2002, 12:40 AM

XLGPP:
What Dustin said. The critical factor with the shorty (2 inches shorter) sportmaster and the stock is the current running attitude of your boat. 2 inches is alot higher X dimension but the better design/shape of the sportmaster lower allows a higher X. The questions to consider in making the decision are the ones Dusitn asked: do you cavitate now to get on plane, if so don't get the shorty, do you cavitate at speed when you give it much trim, say over the 5 hash mark on your indicator, if you do don't get the shorty.
Conversely, if you have very litle caviation getting on plane and none when you trim out now, then go with the shorty. As Dustin noted you can get spacers from 1/2 inch up if you find the shorty just not doing what you need. It's a simple matter to drop the lower unit, insert the spacer and bolt it back up. About a 45 minute job if you're on a trailer. We can walk you thru it by phone if it comes to having to make that change.
I would go with the 1.36 ratio, as it offers a much wider propeller choice, and from what we can tell thus far, is less demanding on the outdrive.
For submerged propeller applications, the efficiency of the Bravo props decreases as pitch goes beyond 32 inch. The final drive ratio on the XR is changed with the lower unit gears, as opposed to the top of the drive in all other Bravo applications. The 1.36 with give more mid range cruise but will suffer a bit in acceleration. However, if you hammer it coming out of the hole many times you'll be blowing drives on a regular basis. It isn't the WOT that kills the drive, it's the hammering out of the hole, and the lack of throttling when getting air and re-entering the water.
You might find you'll have to run a 28" pitch with the sportmaster due to the better water flow along the drive loading the prop better then the regular Bravo lower.. BUT, don't spend any money on a new prop until you try your 30 with the new drive. If you go from a Bravo to a Hering or Hydromotive you'll want to drop at least 1 inch in pitch with those props as opposed to the Bravo. Even though all of them might say 30 inch on the prop, the Hering and Hydromotive will pull like larger wheels as their average measurement is closer to spec than the Bravo (Unless the Bravo has been labbed).
Hope that helps.
Dustin, I understand you're smarter than your Sister, but it's the way she says what she says that continues to keep you as the Family slacker eek! AND anyway, she's the one that ships me stuff for free without telling you :D :D :D :D :D

propless

12-29-2002, 07:11 AM

Going back to the original question. I have a Sleekcraft 27' jet powered by a mild 454. I do around 50 and also want more horsepower and was considering a supercharger as well. I'm good mechanically and enjoy challenges, but short on patience.
If I understood the message threads, it appears for about $5000 one can purchase a supercharger and "simply" bolt it on without any other mods - is that accurate? If not what did I miss and I can I accomplish this on my own?
Last question - here a lot about superchargers but very little discussion around turbochargers on boats, why and what are your thoughts?
Boat use it mainly WOT and tubing/skiing.
As always thanks for the feedback!

NashvilleBound

12-29-2002, 12:58 PM

After recently finishing a Whipple system and doing tons of research.
Having professional installation is the only way to go. First off your going to add 250+/- hp. Hows your drive? How will it be after the addition? $$$$$$ Your cooling system? $$ Do you need to upgrade? Will you be going too fast to NOT have external steering? $$$ Tabs? $$
Those are all decently priced upgrades.....
My understanding is if you dont have it just right on your pressures (water/fuel/oil/boost)and timing (ECU) blowers make a very large bang when they dont work right. If your going to spend 5 grand...spend the extra to have it installed and ask allot of questions BEFORE about what else its going to affect from a QUALIFIED installer.
Good Luck, NB

Unchained

12-29-2002, 03:02 PM

propless
I'm good mechanically and enjoy challenges, but short on patience.
If I understood the message threads, it appears for about $5000 one can purchase a supercharger and "simply" bolt it on without any other mods - is that accurate?
Last question - here a lot about superchargers but very little discussion around turbochargers on boats, why and what are your thoughts?
[/QB]I'll offer my .02 on this one.
I'm a very impatient person also and it's my best and my worst asset. When working with engines and especially boat engines patience is a necessity. With boats and engines if you ask ten different people you will get ten different opinions on how to do it, and all of the opinions will have some accuracy in them.
Having used blowers, Turbos and nitrous before here is the scale of efficiency from low to high,
1) Roots blowers are the least efficient
2) Screw blowers, a little better
3) Centrifugal blowers, more efficient but major mechanical limitations.
4) Turbochargers, Hands down the most efficient and the most HP potential.
Nitrous, Good for drag racing, Waste of time and money for a weekend warrior.
Did you see the thread in this blower motors column named "Turbo installation project" ?
Look back a few weeks.
I think in boats Turbo's are only practical in an open engine compartment otherwise you need watercooled exhaust manifolds(high dollar)and water cooled turbo housings(high dollar)
If you can put the components together yourself
$3,500 will get you a long way on a turbo project not including fuel system or carbs or intercooler all of which would be required for a roots blower installation anyway.
Turbos are a lot simpler by design than a blower. No gearcase, no teflon to wear out, More boost than you can use. The turbo's will outlast the engine. Semi diesel engines run turbos for hundreds of thousands of miles.
I'm sure many other opinions will follow mine here. :D
Mark

Ian

12-29-2002, 03:22 PM

I am curious why a lot of guys are saying you can only run 3-5 pounds of boost on a stock big block. I ran 9lbs on a 93 Mustang no problem with a stock long block with over 100,000 miles. I just made sure I always had good fuel presure and I ran an MSD boost retard. I would think a big bolck could handle the same.

gnarley

12-29-2002, 06:13 PM

Ian:
I am curious why a lot of guys are saying you can only run 3-5 pounds of boost on a stock big block. I ran 9lbs on a 93 Mustang no problem with a stock long block with over 100,000 miles. I just made sure I always had good fuel presure and I ran an MSD boost retard. I would think a big bolck could handle the same. Ian did you run 9lbs all the time for the full 100,000 miles? Oh, I forgot to also point out cars are a bit different than boats and what is required of the engine wink And if you grenade one in a car most times you can walk to get a ride or make a call to put it on the hook, try that in a boat, maybe some of us err on the cautious side. Its not that you can't run 9 pounds, it isn't recommended for longevity, hence 3 to 5 lbs is better unless you want to start working on it more often.
[ December 29, 2002, 06:15 PM: Message edited by: gnarley ]

Whipple Charged

12-29-2002, 08:13 PM

Steve, thats it, I'm going to fire her :D !! Or maybe she'll fire me??
Propless,
It's not quite that simple but close, I'm thinking that you have a 454 carbed engine, probably stock rating around 365hp? Well, if that's the case, you're certainly going to need a carb, minimum 800cfm, fuel pump will be fine as long as it's in good condition, you'll need more water for the intercooler so you'll have to put a pick up in, I'm sure of that, but other than that, it's pretty simple, the carb engines are much easier. But you must know ahead of time, you have to tune the carb, I can forward you to some that can help you get a good start. Bolting on is so simple, you can do that in 5-6 hours max. On this type of boat, I really don't think you need steering and tabs for this speed, but certainly a drive shower.
Start with a Holley 800 or 850cfm carb, 5-6lbs. of boost, start with 28 total advance in timing, install water pickup through the transom, run the drive water through the intercooler, drain all gas and fill with 91 octane, install fuel pressure and boost gauge.
Thanks,
Dustin

SteveDavid

12-29-2002, 09:15 PM

Dustin, I'll pay her salary, that's cheaper then buying the parts argue
As was mentioned there are as many opinions on what works best as there are people opining. We each tend to believe that what we run is the best and therefore support that product in any debate. The fact is there are lots of good systems out there. Get your best deal, have it properly installed and have a ball. For me personally, I've run about every make of Blower out there, as well as turbochargers, and for all around use I'm satisifed that my Whipples were the right choice. I have triple engines so if something isn't going to work right, it's a problem X three. Most of our running is to the Keys and the Bahamas in open ocean where reliability isn't an option.
Ian: boat engines are under constant load. In comparing it to your Mustang, it would be the equivalent of your throttle being wide open up a steep incline and only making 45 MPH for every minute it's running. You cna imagine what your water temp would do, and after a while what your oil pressure owuld do, and finally kaboom! In that scenario how long would your engine have lasted at 9 PSI? Consider this: When you're cruising in your car at 65-75 MPH you're probably turning 2500 RPM to 3,000 RPM and actually using less than 40% of your available HP. Most high performance boaters are cruising at 3500 RPM plus, and more plus than not. The load on the engine never lets up. Back off the throttle and you slow to nothing quickly. Let off your throttle in the Mustang at 70 and you'll roll along quite a distance.
BTW, your Mustang sounds like a very cool car. One of my first cars some 33 years ago was a 66 2+2 fastback. Boy do I wish I had kept it!!!!!
Propless: I don't have any blown jet experience and couldn't advise with any authority.
Nashville Bound: Good advice, it's definitely an undertaking and the law of unintended consequences will definitely bite you on the rear end.
Take care.

Ian

12-30-2002, 09:00 AM

Thanks for the explanation, I now understand the difference. And yes I did run the blower for the whole life of the motor, and though it may not have been full throttle the whole time, it was a good portion of the time, seeing as how I was 18 at the time.

propless

12-30-2002, 04:04 PM

You folks are great!
As for carbs, I'm running a new Holley (750) I purchased from TPC and that may a significant improvement. My old Holley was a 850 and I also had Ty rebuild that, so I may good in the carb area. But I still welcome any documents or thoughts going forward. As mentioned by others, when your in the middle of knowhere and have problems, it is tool late. No thumbing rides home for the screaming kids and wife that is ready to snap your neck.
As for water cooling, jets slam so much water through the block already I barely ever get over 170º - 190º in the dead of summer in water that is 85º, at an idle, WOT I run around 150º. So do I really need to add additional water flow (my headers, or logs are are already water cooled as well)?
Thanks again friends!

Whipple Charged

12-30-2002, 04:55 PM

Propless, to give you an example, we run most motors at 90-120, cooler engine temps are great for keeping away from harmful detonation. Not sure if your running a stat, but if you are, it would be too hot when you supercharge. If you built a custom motor around the SC, then 160 would be ideal, but when supercharging stock motors, detonation puts up the biggest fight and coolant temp is an easy cure for some.
Thanks,
Dustin

propless

12-30-2002, 06:07 PM

Dustin -
Thanks!

gnarley

12-30-2002, 08:52 PM

Propless what's your compression?

Blown 472

12-31-2002, 11:12 AM

Forgot one thing, the problem with tha blower will be having all the wacka's being jealous, having people checking your hot rod out and the wanna bees talking shit about how fast their boat is without a blower. :D

XLGPP

12-31-2002, 11:56 AM

Dustin and SteveDavid:
thanks for all the info (will take me a year to decifer it all..lol) Boat planes great, no cavitation.. I have the High Alt pulley, im hitting 6lbs of boost here.. At Havasu, I dont have to trim out very far at all (maybe 3.5) Here approx. 5.5 for max performance...
so ya'll suggest the shorty?
btw, at havasu with the 30 prop, it jumps right out on plane, and runs like a bat outta hell, here it lags a little coming out but fine up top.. i figured that was just too much prop for this elevation.

Liberator TJ1984

12-31-2002, 11:56 AM

Nothing like a blower screaming it's ass off in your ear wink

SteveDavid

12-31-2002, 12:22 PM

XLGPP,
The shorty (2 inches shorter than a standard bravo lower) should do well for you based on your current set up. If it's a bit high, for less than $400 you purchase a spacer and lower it an inch and you'll still be quicker then you previously were.
Have a ball!
Steve

Whipple Charged

12-31-2002, 12:28 PM

Blown472, isn't that funny, I mean how many 100mph boats have you seen :D We use to have a 25 Daytona that went 119 for Powerboat and went 115 consistently, everybody could beat it, well except on the water at the time. Well, now they really can, but at the time it was fast :D
XLGPP,
I would go at least 1" shorter, or go 2" and possibly plan on spacing when your out there, like Steve said, it's pretty darn easy to do. I would say that what you saw was certainly oversized prop. But certainly 1", 2" is better because you can go back the other way. Man, when did shorter ever become better?? :D
Well, next time out, when the snow melts :) , take a scanner with ya and watch knock retard and see what it does, make 3-4 passes, usually the first is the best as the engine is cool, intercooler, etc. You can even play with timing up there, if it's not pulling any out, try advancing the total 2 degrees and see if it runs better, we can then make this mod for elevation only in the ECU.
Dustin

XLGPP

12-31-2002, 01:02 PM

alright, thanks guys...
I was planning my 1st trip to havasu for spring break, but i guess i better make a cold run here first to get everything set right... ~~~brrrrr~~

Blown 472

12-31-2002, 02:36 PM

No kidding huh, my boat will do 78 mph on a good day and I have beaten many 100 mph twin engine boats, must be that fuzzy math.

flat broke

01-02-2003, 10:23 AM

Propless,
On the recommendation for additional water sources for more cooling. With the temps you are citing for your motor, I'd bet you're pre-heating the water by running it through the exhaust before anything else. If you run your water from pump to psi regulator, to block, out intake, to exhaust, you should drop your cooling temp quite a bit. If you're already configured that way, you could upgrade the size of your cooling lines and play with the gate valve to let more water in. Just be sure to have a pressure regulator between the pump and the block so you can increase flow but keep your pressure safe.
Good luck,
Chris