Whipple question

[XLGPP]

Dustin knows about this question, but has anyone else had probs with thier Whipple computer? After about 20 hrs on my boat (27' Cougar MTR/ 500hp, Whipple 6 lbs boost) I blew a head gasket and burned a hole in piston #7. After checking everything all the way down to the injectors, we couldnt find anything causing it to lean out.. as a last check we sent computer to Dustin to check out.. He said it was fine, but when we put it back togather with the NEW Whipple comp. (Dustin made some tweaks, he said better program for idle) it ran perfect again.. BUT only for about another 20 hrs, then it would load up again, have deminished power and act like it did right before it went the time before.. We sent computer back again to have it checked.. This time it came back and they said they made NO changes and it tested out perfect.. When re-installed it ran perfect again.. I have no reached another 20 hours yet, but i am curious if anyone else has experienced this strange phenom?

[SteveDavid]

Hi,
I run a tiple engine Black Thunder with Whipples on 500 EFI bases. I also blew a head gasket on only one engine. We added the Whipples to the 500 EFI's after they had about 240 hours on them and we didn't change anything except added the Whipples. We discovered that a fuel pump (SX flow thru) was failing and the pressure was dropping below 35 pounds which caused a lean condition, then detonation and the resulting head gasket failure.
We built new engines this spring, again using the 500 EFI base short block, with Merlin 310cc heads. We dynoed all of them and found that we needed to keep timing to no more than 32 degrees to avoid any detonation problems. That was about 100 hours ago and they've been running great, good idle, no loading up and very little exhaust residue on the transom.
In speaking with Dustin, they have found certain cylinder heads reduce the chance of detonation, in particular I believe he mentioned the Dart Pro One? Our Merlins are box stock in terms of port work.
All that said, I would look to your timing, fuel pressures at various RPM and cylinder heads as your detonation source. It might behoove you to take your boat to the lake where Dustin tests and let him hook up their real time lap time so you can see exactly what's happening at every RPM level.
Good luck

[sdba069]

We've got over 100 hours on our 25' Daytona with a 500 EFI and Whipple.The only complaint I ahve is the idle characteristics.I need to send the ECM back and get it checked out.It tends to load up at low speed and then take a little bit to clean out.After that it runs fine on top.
Garry

[SteveDavid]

SDBA,
We had the same problem with the initial install, but Dustin re-programmed the ECU's to eliminate the loading up at idle. We also had a stall at 2000 RPM which was programmed out. When we changed drive ratios from 1.50 to 1.36 we did have to reprogram the ECU's as torque loads and air/fuel requirements changed. Now that Whipple has more and more of these units out in the marine environment they are getting the programming really fine tuned. I think most of the complaints were early on when they didn't have alot of testing to base their programming on. What a 25 Cat needs VS a heavier V bottom, what someone needs in Lake Tahoe VS So. Cal to us here i South Florida etc. all required different calibrations. To their credit, they've been out in the field and the results are a great system.
Good luck, have fun!

[XLGPP]

ty Steve... problem with taking my boat to Dustin is his lake and the elevation where I am are extremely different.. I am at 4500 ft... Dustin and I talked about that, And if he programed it right at his lake it could be way off here... My idle problem was fixed with the 1st re-program, and it has always run perfect from the bottom end to the top.. the only exception to that is that I do get alot of exhaust residue on the transom... BUT after about 20 hours it acts like it doesnt even have a blower at all.. just all of a sudden I make a pass @ 90mph then im lucky to get high 70's.. When it runs right, everything checks out, temp, fuel pressure, etc..
for some strange reason the computer just shuts down after aprox 20 hrs.. or at least twice it has... we will see again this spring...

[SteveDavid]

XLGPP,
There is a possibility that your ECU may be overheating? Is it located in the stock Merc location on the flywheel end of the engine just to the side and rear of the distributor? If it is not, see if you have enough wiring harness to move it to a well ventilated and cool area, maybe a fire wall or side of your engine compartment. If it is located in the stock position, is that a well ventilated area of your engine compartment?
Another possibility may be the fuel lines are near where a heat build occurs?
Still another is the type of fuel filter you are running. Is it before the SX pump (I'm assuming you're running the red anodized version) and have you gone to the 70 micron SS mesh instead of the 10 micron paper element that came with it? If you haven't changed it, there is a small "tit" that will pop up on the inlet side of the filter if the element has become packed. It's on the twist off front side next to the inlet fitting.
Hope this helps,
Steve

[twistedpair]

Are you Steve David the Unlimited Hydro driver? If so, I've loved watching you race over the years. If not, welcome aboard anyway! :)

[SteveDavid]

Hi twistedpair,
Yes, and thankyou for following our sport. We sure miss racing in your neck of the woods at Lake Mead, although I don't exactly miss that late afternoon wind and water:)
If you can make any of our races next year, please drop me an email beforehand and we'll have VIP passes waiting for you at the gate. We'd enjoy having you meet the O Boy! O Berto crew and check out our boat. It's in the process of being rebuilt over the winter. The air trap will be widened from 88 inches to 93 inches and we're adding a full width articulating canard up front.
Thanks again, look forward to meeting you.
Steve David

[playdeep]

SteveDavid,
Just wanted to say welcome to Hot Boat...
Hope you stick around and thanks for the information.
It is greatly appreciated.

[SteveDavid]

Thanks Playdeep!

[Infomaniac]

I am available for test pilot duties :)

[twistedpair]

Hey Steve, I'll be takin' you up on that offer. I just moved down here from Tri-Cities Wa. last year. So that and Seafair are the races we always went to.
I was bummed to find out you guys don't run down here anymore, I figured you did seeing how so many boats sport Laughlin Nev. sponsorships.
I'm heading up for waterfollies this year however, and just might have to check out San Diego as well.
Best of luck on the upcoming season, and oh yeah,
BEAT BUD'S ASS!!! :D

[SteveDavid]

Twisted Pair,
Will do on the Bud request :)
The reason you saw all the Laughlin decals is because the Laughlin tourist development council was a co-sponsor of the overall Hydroprop series, both F-1 boats and Unlimiteds. In 2002 they dropped the Hydros part but continued with the F-1 boats. This is also the reason you see Bud decals on all of our boats and O'Douls. We don't individually receive money from them, but it's their dollars that pay for the ESPN2 and Speedvision (2003) broadcasts.
Infomaniac: No way, once you get in the cockpit, you'll never want to get out, and I'm still having way too much fun to retire!
Take care

[565edge]

XLGPP:
ty Steve... problem with taking my boat to Dustin is his lake and the elevation where I am are extremely different.. I am at 4500 ft... Dustin and I talked about that, And if he programed it right at his lake it could be way off here... My idle problem was fixed with the 1st re-program, and it has always run perfect from the bottom end to the top.. the only exception to that is that I do get alot of exhaust residue on the transom... BUT after about 20 hours it acts like it doesnt even have a blower at all.. just all of a sudden I make a pass @ 90mph then im lucky to get high 70's.. When it runs right, everything checks out, temp, fuel pressure, etc..
for some strange reason the computer just shuts down after aprox 20 hrs.. or at least twice it has... we will see again this spring... Here is the web site and number of powertrain electronics,he is the best http://www.powertrain.net/

[Whipple Charged]

The computer has never shut down to my knowledge and was never replaced, although peformance has fallen, you can't necessarily point to the ECU, it is only adding fuel, nothing else so if it's shutting down, it should run so lean that it burns a piston, detonates severly and then burns and typically will not take the throttle because it will back fire. If after 20 hours your seeing a problem, possibly ignition problems (wires, cap, rotor, plugs??) When the ECU was sent back, it was just put on a tester, verified function, ran some simulation of rpm and pulsing the injectors then sent back.
All our calibrations are tested and verified at 5500ft, approx. 50 miles from our shop before being released. The only changes that are made is taking the base tables and "multiplying" the base curves. Timing is left alone except for slow speeds and so on. We were testing the 496 in the snow saturday, had to have 4wd to get up and down the snow covered ramp.
This is simple to diagnose, take it to the lake with a scan tool and watch "knock retard" this will tell you if it's detonating and if it is, it will show how much spark it is taking from the total commanded. If it's 0 and it's runnning like crap, it's probably ignition related. I highly doubt the computer is doing anything wrong, if it is, it's typically because of a bad ground or water inside the ECU. Also, since the ECU is only adding fuel, you can put a noid light on one of the injectors and route so somebody can see it and you can watch as you get into boost the injectors will start pulsing, that would tell you if there working or not.
I've had many times where I tried to point at the ECU and its always come back to something else, I actually had one where they put new Taylor wires that weren't shielded, but I didn't think anything of it, although I would get light headed when in the engine bay, what it would do is actually reset the stock MEFI3 ECU while the motor was running, well these ECU's take a baro reading at every startup, but if the motor doesn't die (has to drop below 200rpm), the motor is running in vacuum so it would keep changing for baro psi, first it was at sea level, then 80kpa, then 60 kpa. I changed grounds, ground straps, power wires, rerouted everything! Of course, I tried replacing the ECU, that did nothing.
Dustin

[LiL' Devil]

XLGPP,
I HAD THE IDENTICAL PROBLEM WITH MY 500HP WHIPPLE. I BLEW A HEAD GASKET IN THE NBR.7 CYLINDER . SORRRY TO HEAR ABOUT THAT FIX. I WAS FORTUNATE NOT TO BURN THE PISTON THOUGH. PRIOR TO THE BLOWN GASKET I HAD SEVERAL FUEL PRESSURE PROBLEMS. DID DUSTIN WARANTEE THE DAMAGE CAUSED TO YOUR MOTOR??
HOPE TO HEAR BACK...........

[XLGPP]

Devil, there is no warranty by whipple, which I am sure you are aware of.. I cant tell you exactly how, but let me say this much. Dustin is a stand up guy and Whipple definatley helped me in every way they could. If you have questions about your problem, ask Dustin and STEVEDAVID. Steve has helped me alot and has talked to me in great detail about this problem. He is more than willing to help you out

[carreraboat]

hey xlgpp i have a merc scan tool if you wanna hook up at the butte to do some testing i will have my boat back together in about a month if you wanna hook up

[XLGPP]

carrera, sounds good. Im putting a new XR drive on. Should be here in about a week, so I should be up and running in 2-3 weeks. Gotta get it all tuned in before mid-march, We are going to Havasu for spring break... Let me know when your going to the lake. Weather has already been awesome. hell we hit 77 degrees down here last week, mid 70's everyday since.