A serious (boat) question [Archive]

andy01

04-03-2006, 01:07 PM

DCB started doing outboards for Bob Leach years ago, I am assuming because Dave had the experience. Well once Dave started his own boat line he keep offering I/O's and outboards. The 26' runs great O/B's and is a stock power planet. A 26' needs 750 hp through a bravo drive (that will break) to reach the same speeds. So a lot of DCB's buyers op for the more turn key, warranty, user friendly package. DCB is just one of the only west coast companies that has taken the time to set up a boat to run right with outboards.
That is my .02, I am sure somebody else will no a better answer........
Andy

OGShocker

04-03-2006, 01:07 PM

Maybe the owners have more weeds to wack... :idea:

kanedog

04-03-2006, 01:13 PM

"A 26' needs 750 hp through a bravo drive (that will break) to reach the same speeds."
Having a 26'(non dcb), after 5 broken drives with 750hp, I can attest to this.Gay.
Andy01 is correct.

Kilrtoy

04-03-2006, 01:17 PM

Because they look cool :rollside:
Andy about summed it up...
Dave has the outboard set up dialed in....

Tom Brown

04-03-2006, 01:19 PM

Does anyone know roughly how much stern drive power would be required to compete with the hole shot of a pair of 300x outboards?
I'm guessing a pair of 496 B1s would compare fairly similar to a pair of 300x outboards on the same hull?

Phat Matt

04-03-2006, 01:21 PM

"A 26' needs 750 hp through a bravo drive (that will break) to reach the same speeds."
Having a 26'(non dcb), after 5 broken drives with 750hp, I can attest to this.Gay.
Andy01 is correct.
Did you just call Andy gay? :rollside:

TwinMach26DCB

04-03-2006, 01:26 PM

Dave C

04-03-2006, 01:32 PM

except that you can't squeeze two I/O's in that hull so it would have to be a big single....
the power to weight ratio of the 300x @ roughly 450 #'s is hard to beat. Two 300x's will have approx 600 HP and weight about 900 lbs.
a single 496 has 425 hp and weights about 1300 lbs with drive (per mercury)
so all other things being equal, (which they are not) it would probably need 850 HP in an I/O to equal the 2 whackas....
Does anyone know roughly how much stern drive power would be required to compete with the hole shot of a pair of 300x outboards?
I'm guessing a pair of 496 B1s would compare fairly similar to a pair of 300x outboards on the same hull?

DCBDaytona

04-03-2006, 02:07 PM

RELIABILITY.
Mach/F-26 properly setup in ideal conditions with 300x's will run close to 110 mph. It'll run all day in 120 degree Havasu heat at or around 100 mph.
Mach/F-26 properly setup with a Teague 800 will run 110 mph in ideal conditions. But in the 120 heat, and all the strain on the drive, it'll be a short lived life.
All in all 300x's have the warranty, are just as fast and look much nicer. What other '26 tunnel could run 100 mph from The Thompson's bay to the Springs?

the_gray_goose

04-03-2006, 03:22 PM

except that you can't squeeze two I/O's in that hull so it would have to be a big single....
the power to weight ratio of the 300x @ roughly 450 #'s is hard to beat. Two 300x's will have approx 600 HP and weight about 900 lbs.
a single 496 has 425 hp and weights about 1300 lbs with drive (per mercury)
so all other things being equal, (which they are not) it would probably need 850 HP in an I/O to equal the 3 whackas....
And you can't turn 6500 rpm's for a 30 plus mile run in the single inboard and have it survive for to long.

Jbb

04-03-2006, 03:23 PM

A serious boat question....?...what ...are you new here..... :p

Tom Brown

04-03-2006, 03:29 PM

He must have stumbled in from that new link on the CNN web site. :idea:

Dave C

04-03-2006, 03:37 PM

An efficient 4 stroke could make its power at lower RPM's (below 6k) which makes the motor (not the drive ;) ) more reliable. BUT an 800 horse single would require a big huffer or large CID in an single I/O. either way its still tough on the drive because of the torque created.
Its just hard to beat a 26 ft boat with the 300'x power to weigh ratio.....
And you can't turn 6500 rpm's for a 30 plus mile run in the single inboard and have it survive for to long.

GHT

04-03-2006, 05:34 PM

He must have stumbled in from that new link on the CNN web site. :idea:
Or maybe he thought the #129th ranking of this website was worth a visit?, and that we (all HB'ers) know what we're talking bout... :cool:

phebus

04-03-2006, 05:44 PM

Mandelon

04-03-2006, 05:59 PM

Plus they make great hats.
http://www2.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/1616HB3.JPG

Kilrtoy

04-03-2006, 06:33 PM

There's talk all the time of the reliability of outboard motors, but whenever I see a boat with outboards for sale, it mentions how it has new powerheads. What is the normal lifetime (in hours) of a 300?
What happens is to gain a few extra miles an hour they are raised really, really , really high and they get almost no water pressure. This in turn frys( for a lack of better words) the motor..... That is why I have mine set up low and have alot of water pressure. But I have been told well in excess of 400 hours is normal before any thing starts to happen.

DCBDaytona

04-03-2006, 06:39 PM

What happens is to gain a few extra miles an hour they are raised really, really , really high and they get almost no water pressure. This in turn frys( for a lack of better words) the motor..... That is why I have mine set up low and have alot of water pressure. But I have been told well in excess of 400 hours is normal before any thing starts to happen.
The concensus from Eric Simon and Richie is that the first 50 hours are crutial and this is when most of the problems will occur. Most blown 300 Powerheads happen during this time, and as they get older and break in, become more reliable/dependable.
Also, I'm curious how low you have your engines set...Of all the 300's on DCB 26's I've been around (Maybe 7-8 boats), none have blown from lack of water pressure. All were set up normally from DCB without low water pickups. When you're trimmed out to 3 on your BlueWater gauge, where is the bullet on your lower unit in comparison to the leading edge of the hull?

TOBTEK

04-03-2006, 07:43 PM

Question -- will 750 HP / single get you to low 100's like the wackers will in the 26 ?? I can't say for certain, but I'm thinking not... Mine just ran 100 in the Delta with my smallest wheels 28's... with 3 fatty's AND fuel...
have you noticed where your motors are set height wise? (Mbrown may know) mine are ALL the down/lowest possible setting. I'm curious how much difference each step up will make, which I think is 3/4".

andy01

04-03-2006, 08:39 PM

Life in hours........ if and IF you broke your 300's in the way the factory TELLS YOU TO, so for most of you Havasu guys this didn't happen. But if you didn't let them idle at all in the first 5 hours that makes a world of diffence, second if you never let them idle that makes a world of difference. Idling is hard the two strokes from what I have been told. If you ever see me go through the channel or a no wake zone my boat is always on one motor above 800-1,000 rpm. And I switch motor to motor so the time stays even. If you do everything (and there is more then that) that Merc. tells you and break them just like they say to, they say 600 plus hours.
I know I will never see that (Im sure the boat will be sold long before that) but I hope they last long since I have done everything Merc. says to do.
As for raising motors, 1/16th of an inch can make a world of difference when you get to that magic spot. Anybody that is moving thiers motors up or down I would say do it in 1/8th inch moves. I did it 1/4 (per my builder after break in), 1/8th and maybe one more time I don't remember. It went from 25 to 15-18. That is where I run mine, I know i could go lower on the psi but I run the ocean a lot and wanted the added depth for the ruff stuff when the boat is out a lot. I was told that a little bit can go a long way in the ocean water.
Andy

buzzaro

04-04-2006, 06:33 AM

A serious boat question....?...what ...are you new here..... :p
Well, I more meant that I was being serious, as opposed to the fact that the question may or may not have been addressing a life or death issue :hammerhea and new here???? over 150 posts....I think that speaks for itself

Tom Brown

04-04-2006, 07:18 AM

Congratulations on the 150+ posts, buzzaro. :cool:
In the 80s, Yamaha ran a pair of their OceanPro 200 outboards to 10000 hours (10K hours) to prove a point and for marketing purposes. They claimed the powerheads had never been apart.
If we were using regular fishing 2 stroke engines, they would last for crazy amounts of time too. The high performance 2 strokes have soft rings to seal better (but wear really fast) and plastic reeds required for high RPM running fatigue really fast too.
Refreshing an outboard powerhead typically means a new set of rings and reeds. That's a far cry from a blower engine overhaul. Racers have changed outboard pistons in 20 minutes between heats. Rings in an extreme performance engine are a maintenance item and that's not restricted to just 2 strokes. Hey... I've done it so how hard can it be?

Jbb

04-04-2006, 07:20 AM

Congratulations on the 150+ posts, buzzaro. :cool:
:p

BigBlockBaja

04-04-2006, 07:40 AM

and new here???? over 150 posts....I think that speaks for itself
With these guys, I dont think it speaks loud enough.....
:cool:

buzzaro

04-04-2006, 08:12 AM

With these guys, I dont think it speaks loud enough.....
:cool:
For my first official contribution to these boards, I would like to make a motion for the "sarcastic smiley" :idea:

Tom Brown

04-04-2006, 08:18 AM

Teddy sniffing glue he was 12 years old...

Jbb

04-04-2006, 08:19 AM

Teddy sniffing glue he was 12 years old...
Fell from the roof on East 29

Tom Brown

04-04-2006, 08:22 AM

Cathy was 11 when she pulled the plug on 26 reds and a bottle of wine...
Why do I love this shit? :D

Dave C

04-04-2006, 08:23 AM

300-500 hours is NOT alot of time for an engine between overhauls. Although I guess it is for you guys that sell your boats within 3 years, so nevermind. ;)
But for the rest of us who keep them longer, we need something a bit more reliable than that....
A properly maintained 4 stroke I/O N/A can get way more than 1000 + hours. An even then you don't need an overhaul until it breaks. Plus if the RPMS remain low some of the more expensive parts can be re-used (cranks, rods, etc.)
Shiat I had 2 separate 454's go more than 7 years, and neither required a rebuild.
Also properly maintained blower motor that is not set on kill can get way more hours than a 2 stroke.
of course we are all so hard on our equipment I hardly think that any of use will ever see maximum hours ;) ;)
Plus an outboard is still a 2 stroke. For those of us familiar with 2 strokes, sometimes overhauls require more than just a hone and ring job. If abused the cylinders will be out of round (which can't be bored too much), SCOUR-MARKS, high rpms create stress on the crank and rods, etc. etc.....
Also 2 stokes are run hard, with WOT passes at more than 6000 rpm. That creates a great deal of stress on the crank which eventually needs to be replaced.
Now don't get me wrong, I used to love my 2 stroke motorcycles, quads and lake lice but they required constant maintenence.

Jbb

04-04-2006, 08:23 AM

Cathy was 11 when she pulled the plug on 26 reds and a bottle of wine...
Why do I love this shit? :D
Threadjacker.... :mad:

buzzaro

04-04-2006, 08:31 AM

Bobby got leukemia, 14 years old he looked like 65 when he died :cool:

havaduner

04-04-2006, 08:32 AM

Question -- will 750 HP / single get you to low 100's like the wackers will in the 26 ?? I can't say for certain, but I'm thinking not... Mine just ran 100 in the Delta with my smallest wheels 28's... with 3 fatty's AND fuel...
My 26 with Teague 720 would run 103-105 depending on load/ weather.
Upgrading to 800. should see 110.

Tom Brown

04-04-2006, 08:34 AM

Also properly maintained blower motor that is not set on kill can get way more hours than a 2 stroke.
Perhaps the reasonably boosted blower motor can get more hours than a 300x or a 260/280 but not more than the lower power outboards.
A properly maintained outboard with nickel silicon-carbide plated bores and chrome faced rings can outlast any auto engine. ... and when it needs to be refreshed... new rings are all that is required to make it outlast another new auto engine.
Also, I'd like to add that Bobby got leukemia. He was 14 years old. He looked like 65 when he died. He was a friend of mine.

Jbb

04-04-2006, 08:34 AM

Cathy was 11 when she pulled the plug on 26 reds and a bottle of wine...
Why do I love this shit? :D
You love it....but your not exactly setting the best example for the rest of the office staff....things there seem a little ....lax..... :p
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/860office2.jpg