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Essex502
06-08-2004, 08:33 AM
Lack of oil refineries blamed for price of gas
U.S. production capacity has hit nearly 100 percent and no new plants are being built to meet demand
By Melita Marie Garza
Chicago Tribune
The U.S. oil industry is absolutely certain that the high price of gasoline is the fault of OPEC and its production quotas. OPEC suggests that the industry look at the refineries in its own back yard.
``The fact is that the cost of a barrel of crude oil has increased from $25 a year ago to $41 today -- that's (nearly) a 40 cent-per-gallon increase,'' said Rayola Dougher, senior policy analyst for the Washington-based American Petroleum Institute. She noted that the Federal Trade Commission has attributed 80 percent of the increase in gasoline prices to the price of crude oil.
But Lawrence Goldstein, president of the Petroleum Industry Research Foundation, thinks OPEC may have a point.
Goldstein said the U.S. oil industry needs new refineries. The real issue, he says, is not oil production quotas, but lack of refining capacity.
``There is no spare refining capacity in the U.S. today and that means'' that the usual supply-and-demand balancing act has been thrown off kilter, Goldstein said.
Refineries now operate at 96 percent of capacity, whereas the average U.S. manufacturing plant operates at 76.7 percent of capacity. Since 1981, when refineries operated at 69 percent of their capacity, the number of refineries in the United States has dropped from 324 to 153.
Goldstein noted that before the last decade, whenever prices went up, U.S. refiners could rush to make more gasoline -- or pull supplies from discretionary inventories to meet demand, moves that eventually led to lower prices.
Now prices simply are propped up until there is a drop in demand.
At least three refineries proposed on the East Coast in recent years couldn't get off the ground, creating a chilling effect for such projects, Goldstein said.
As a result, the United States has become increasingly dependent on imports of finished petroleum products, especially gasoline and jet fuel. The reliance on imports comes even as American refiners have added 1.5 million barrels a day of capacity since 1994 by expanding and improving existing refineries in a strategy known as ``capacity creep.''
And ExxonMobil Corp. Chief Executive Lee R. Raymond said in May that new refineries are years away from being built.
``You would have to have confidence over a long period of time that refining margins would stay at a level to support'' a multibillion-dollar project that would take years to complete, Raymond said after the company's annual meeting in May in Dallas.
The American Petroleum Institute says a new refinery has a $1 billion price tag and a 10-year timeline for completion.
``There's no quick fix,'' Raymond said.
That last paragraph says it all.

RiverToysJas
06-08-2004, 08:42 AM
10 years to build a new refinery? :confused: I'm not buying that. It can be done quicker and cheaper, I'm sure of that!!!!
RTJas

Jordy
06-08-2004, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by RiverToysJas
10 years to build a new refinery? :confused: I'm not buying that. It can be done quicker and cheaper, I'm sure of that!!!!
RTJas
I'd bet 9 years of that is time spent in court trying to fight off the envirowhackos to get the permits to build. :D

RiverToysJas
06-08-2004, 08:46 AM
Originally posted by jordanpaulk
I'd bet 9 years of that is time spent in court trying to fight off the envirowhackos to get the permits to build. :D
Good point! The not in my backyard whackos would be all over that, no matter where it's at. I say, hide them in the desert, and use inmates to run them!!! :D
RTJas :D

HCS
06-08-2004, 08:49 AM
Originally posted by jordanpaulk
I'd bet 9 years of that is time spent in court trying to fight off the envirowhackos to get the permits to build. :D
That's exactly it. Whackos are fighting to shut them down.
There talking about closing one refinery in California, there
saying if that happens gas prices could go up 1 or even 2
dollars per gallon in California.

Havasu_Dreamin
06-08-2004, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by HARDCORE-SKI
That's exactly it. Whackos are fighting to shut them down. There talking about closing one refinery in California, there
saying if that happens gas prices could go up 1 or even 2
dollars per gallon in California.
That would absolutely kill the economy.

roostwear
06-08-2004, 08:55 AM
The consolidation/buyouts in the petroleum industry have led the them actually shutting DOWN refineries, keeping the price of gasoline artificially high. Gee, why would they want to BUILD refineries that would LOWER the price and their profit? Quarter after quarter of record profits have shown this tactic works. When does it come to the point when collusion and anti-trust concerns are investigated?

HCS
06-08-2004, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
That would absolutely kill the economy.
Ya it would. I read the artical in the local paper a couple weeks
ago. It's one of the older less producing refineries. Whako's are
claiming it's to old and to dangerous to be in operation. So their
trying to get it shut down. The state somebodies where saying
that would cause gas prices in California to rise.

Blown 472
06-08-2004, 09:24 AM
U.S. Subsidizing Gas Prices In Iraq
While gas prices in the U.S. reach record levels at over $2 per gallon, the Associated Press is reporting that U.S. taxpayers are subsidizing the cost of gasoline in Iraq to keep the price at just 5 cents a gallon. Even though Iraq is a major oi producer it no longer has the infrastructure to refine its own gasoline. So it is costing the U.S. government about $1.50 a gallon to import gas from other countries. But in an attempt to win over the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people, the US is footing most of the bill to keep the price at 5 cents a gallon at the pump -- the same price it was under Saddam Hussein. There is concern what the reaction will be in Iraq when drivers have to start paying the market rate for gas.

spectratoad
06-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Isn't it funny how if you hear on the news that in say 3 weeks that the cost of crude is going up whatever amount then gas prices inflate that day but if you hear that in 3 weeks they are going to lower the cost of crude to help get a handle on the gas prices the cost of gas does not budge and even more finger pointing starts as to the reasons for the cost of fuel.
My guess is OPEC and the fuel companies (Shell, Exxon, Mobil etc...) are all to blame for the cost of fuel.
I think I would also like to hear some local (cities, counties) getting their share of a boot in the A$$ about the cost of fuel. I would be willing to bet most communities are like our where about .50 cents of every gallon is local taxes.:mad:

Essex502
06-08-2004, 01:06 PM
Search the board on here and you'll find a lot of what is causing the high gas as I've posted enough articles...
Cutting the total number of refineries from over three hundred in the U.S. to about 150 is a major issue. The $1 lower price per barrel of crude on the world market translates to about $0.025 (that's right 2 and one half cents) of the gasoline cost. The $0.60 of refinery margin in CA versus the Texas gulf coast cost of $0.22 for refinery margin also makes a big impact to CA drivers.
Shell Oil is attempting to close the Bakersfield plant NOT because of the EnviroWackos as alluded to above but because they claim that (despite expert's opinions that differ) that they're running out of local crude oil supply in the central valley. Meanwhile it is the highest profit margin refinery for all of Shell's US operations. GO figure.

OMEGA_BUBBLE_JET
06-08-2004, 01:16 PM
getting a FERC permit in this country to build a refinery is no easy task either. My company is going thru this right now to build an LNG terminal on the gulf coast. The govt. takes a long time doing anything, including permits to build. call your congressman people
Omega