Belt Problem

[JetBoatRich]

New Blower owner question,
Went out this weekend and had a Belt Shread for my blower. The belt only had a few hours on it. I put my spare on and was running around the lake just fine, as we were returning to the ramp the other belt came off?
I had an additional problem where water is seeping in the engine compartment? Changed one boot for the cable was tore, still have water?
Do think the pulleys getting wet could throw the belt?
I'm sure no easy answers

[Fiat48]

Check blower pulley and idler alignment using a straight edge. Possibly loose idler or bracket. Don't see why water would cause the belt to come off.

[Infomaniac]

Yea what Fiat48 says.
Also what kind of blower? Detonation will cause the idler to come loose.
Also check the balancer if it is not double keyed.

[JetBoatRich]

Thanks I will check it out, I found a mark on the main pulley frown

[Blown 472]

Where is the idler mounted? if it is a clamp style around the snout it might be coming loose, or if it mounts to the block make sure it is aligned, also if the belt is hanging off one or more of the pullies it will start to come apart, 1/2 pitch belt??

[HP350SC]

Jet boat rich- Not sure what blower you have but if it's a B&M spring loaded tensioner make sure the stud you use to remove the belt is not contacting the belt.You'll know if your belt was chewed up directly in line with the stud.Once I got my setup right I removed the stud altogether and cut a bolt to the proper length to use when removing the belt.Once everthing is aligned right you shouldn't have to take the belt off much anyway.Mine has been on two years with no problems.

[JetBoatRich]

Belt has been on there for years, I changed it I bought the boat. Chewed one up in the morning, next run out threw off the spare. It is a spring loaded, everything turns good no extra movement?
I will go through it again and look for something to stand out

[HP350SC]

JetBoatRich- Kinda hard to explain,but I had the exact same problem.First off,where was belt chewed up,down the center or the edge? You need to have a minimum of 1/2" travel before the tensioner is fully bottomed to allow for expansion. Do you have the threaded stud which comes out on the opposite side as the tensioner pulley? If so, did you remove the nut after installing the belt? Even with 5/8" clearance between the belt and the stud,mine still hit at certain times.This happens during sudden decel. as the belt flops around.Without a picture it's hard to tell what's going on but I hope this helps.

[hulshot]

is this one of the small blowers that run the serp belt sytem.

[Kurtis500]

Check your idler bracket!! It may seem stiff, but under a hard acceleration the blower starts resisting and puts strain on the idler pulley and bracket, pulling them inwards. I threw 3 belts before I found that problem. Now my bracket is TF style. No more flex. Some idler brackets are wimpy enough to flex right off the bat like mine was.

[eliminator777]

Kurtis 500 is right.spring loaded idler is bad deal.I've had my belt on my boat for 3 years a little silcone spray keep it good but my idler is fixed. :p :p :D :D

[JetBoatRich]

hulshot:
is this one of the small blowers that run the serp belt sytem. Yes
Sounds like my tensioner should be checked. The thing is hard to push in, but can twist fairly easy?

[Liberator TJ1984]

Rich, If you have a 177 ??? I had the same problem,the tension bolt would be pushed back into the inside of the belt,if you look at your idler assy. there are several mounting holes to move the idler out or in more...move it out as far as you can where the bolt will clear the belt even if it is all the way pushed in, hard to explain but if you look closely you will see what I am talking about ...Good Luck
Gopherrr

[JetBoatRich]

I will check it out tonight and post a picture?
I don't know what bolt you are talking about?

[Liberator TJ1984]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Gearhead_Garage/Other_Equipment/Picture_228.JPG
If you look at this picture..there is an adjusting nut on the idler assy. to tighten up the belt..even though this belt is off you can see that it is very close to the inside of the belt,the whole idler assy.can be moved in ot out ...there are several mounting holes where it is attached to the blower..move it out to where the adj.nut will no longer hit when you push the spring in @ compressed position...hope this helps
Gopherrr

[HalletDave]

Regarding JetBoat Richs' blower belt problem. :confused: :( He did not give you all the details. :D
It is a B&M, not sure what model. Looking to the rear of the boat, the tensioner is on the lefthand side. I helped him put the spare belt on by pushing in on the tensioner and he was able to get the belt on the blower pulley on the harmonic ballancer. I did notice that two of the ribs in the grooves on the pulley were sort of burgered up. (outside edge of pulley, about 3/4" in length) Could this be causing the belt to get thrown. The first belt he lost was so totally mangled it was hard to tell it was a blower belt.
I hope this helps in the diagnosis.
HD

[HalletDave]

I forgot to mention, on Richs' set up, the belt tensioner is attached to the engine block, left side.
HD

[Infomaniac]

The block mounted tensioner is the old style.
BE SURE TO TAKE THE NUT OFF OF THE TENSIONER !!
The ones I had would move out during acceleration. The tensioner is on the loose side of the belt. The belt would tighten up on the opposite side and the tensioner would take up the slack. If the nut is left on, the tensioner cannot move far enough outward during acceleration. Just put a strong cotter pin or nail in the end of the threads to keep the tensioner from spitting out if the belt comes off again.
See if the drive snout has the pad and holes for the newer style tensioner. If it does get one if the nut thing did not work.
[ February 13, 2003, 10:11 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[Kurtis500]

I wasnt sure which blower you had. It is a serpentine belt then correct? I ran the block mounted bracket then and still do now. They just have to be heavy enough not to twist. I also had a pulley come loose and pull in throwing a belt there too. A way that I solved this was to put a star washer in front of the nut for the idler pulley. It holds everytime also. The picture below is the actual idler bracket I'm using right now. About 3/4 inch thick and mounts with 4 large 3/8 bolts and another 3/8 bolt in the corner above the pulley. Works like a charm!
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/aafuel.JPG
[ February 13, 2003, 11:02 AM: Message edited by: Kurtis500 ]

[JetBoatRich]

You guys are good, I will post a picture tonight to give you a better idea. Same set-up/blower as Liberator TJ1984 shows above
As you can see pict's posted below, my pulley is off set, so the bolts to hit?
[ February 13, 2003, 07:52 PM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

[JetBoatRich]

Pictures
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-009l.JPG

[JetBoatRich]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-008l.JPG

[JetBoatRich]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-010l.JPG

[JetBoatRich]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-007l.JPG

[Infomaniac]

Loose the nut off of that idler. It could be the difference between the belt staying on or not. Been there done that. B&M instructions say to do not forget to take it off.
I would get the paint off of the idler shaft also. take it apart and clean it up. Use anit-sieze compound on the part that fits inside the idler housing.
Consider a slightly shorter belt that has the idler in farther. this will put more spring tension on it.

[93eliminator]

hey jbr how much more speed do you pick up with that blower.How much moew hp do you think you get out of it i'm just curious?
I know they are small blowers but i have seen BIG blowers probably runnin less boost

[JetBoatRich]

I bought the boat with the blower, engine not totally built. We get about 525-550 HP

[JetBoatRich]

Forgot to mention smooth water mid 70's, that is gassing it wink

[JetBoatRich]

Infomaniac:
Loose the nut off of that idler. It could be the difference between the belt staying on or not. Been there done that. B&M instructions say to do not forget to take it off.
I would get the paint off of the idler shaft also. take it apart and clean it up. Use anit-sieze compound on the part that fits inside the idler housing.
Consider a slightly shorter belt that has the idler in farther. this will put more spring tension on it. I don't understand what about the nut?
The belt has a hard time as it is to get on with the thing all the way pushed in, so shorter belt won't work frown

[Infomaniac]

Rev the engine up and see which way the idler goes. It should move out. The bottom pulley is pulling on the belt on the opposite side of the engine. That side of the belt tightens up which causes the side with the idler to loosen. The idler should move out to keep tension. If the nut is there, it could keep the idler from extending out enough to keep tension.
If nothing else I am sure B&M knows what they are talking about.

[JetBoatRich]

Nut is on the end, not much room to move it?

[Infomaniac]

Not sure what you mean.
The reason for that hole in the end of the threads is so you can take the nut off after the belt is on. You put that ring back in so if the belt comes off the idler does not spit out.
The only reason for the nut is so you can pull the idler in to get the belt on and off. Not really necessary because you can usually push the idler in long enough to change the belt.

[JetBoatRich]

Nut always been there? How often do these things wear out?

[Infomaniac]

nevermind good luck

[JetBoatRich]

Don't give up, figure I will play with it this weekend

[JetBoatRich]

I usually take it easy and try to make the boat last. don't keep it WOT

[HalletDave]

Rich,
Let's pull the tensioner apart this weekend and clean it up. I am thinking it might be binding and not able to adjust (move in and out) quick enough to keep the proper tension on the belt. That safety ring is to keep the nut from backing all the way off, right? wink We will figure this out, afterall, it ain't rocket science. :D Lets try to clean up the bottom pulley grooves while we are at it. Give me a call @ home. I'm getting off work @ 1800Z. :) That's 10:00am Rich. :D BOAT SHOW BABY
HD

[Infomaniac]

Hey guys I am not full of shit.
I have bought several of these brand new and read the instructions.
That nut is supposed to come off after you install the belt. The nut can prevent the idler from extending out far enough to keep tension when on and off the throttle. The nut draws the idler in to change the belt, no other reason. You take the nut off and put a cotter pin in the hole to keep the idler from spittiing out because the nut should not be there.
[ February 14, 2003, 07:29 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[HalletDave]

Infomaniac,
So after the belt is on, remove the nut, push in on the idler pulley and insert the cotter pin, right? The cotter pin makes sense. :o I couldn't see how the weak safety ring would be real sturdy. Rich and I will do this. Rich, I told you this wasn't Rocket Science. :D Infomaniac thanks, I was not trying to insinuate in any way shape or form that you were full of shit. :)
HD

[JetBoatRich]

Never said you were wrong and your ideas are going to be used.
Since I have not shot you a 5 yet I just did for all your help. wink

[Infomaniac]

I always used a nail. Especially on a car. If the belt came off and spit the idler out, it would be on the road somewhere.

[Ian]

Hey guys good luck with the belt, it's weird how things work great for a couple years and then start messing up for no apparent reason. Infomaniac is right when you rev the motor the belt should loosen up on the tensioner side, removing that nut will allow the tensioner to move out that extra little bit, which may go a long way. Infomaniac is the man! He has given me tons of useful info in the past, when he speaks I listen, I think you were just having a tuff time understanding what he meant. On second hand; the right way to fix the problem is get a fridge full of cold ones and start drinking until your belt problem along with all the other problems in the world are solved wink . Good luck! On a side note when's the next trip, my buddy said he'll bring a couple of his cut-off jean shorts for you guys :D .

[Liberator TJ1984]

put the belt on then remove the nut, put in the nail or cotter pin...if the adj. goes in all the way or very close to where the cotter pin / nail goes into the idler tube you will need to use a shorter belt ....hope you guys get it figured out :confused: :D
Gopherrr

[HalletDave]

Ian,
We definitely have a handle on the cold ones. The next trip? The next time we have a fairly warm weekend. We will let you know. Leave the cut-offs @ home. :D
HD

[Infomaniac]

Liberator TJ1984:
put the belt on then remove the nut, put in the nail or cotter pin...if the adj. goes in all the way or very close to where the cotter pin / nail goes into the idler tube you will need to use a shorter belt ....hope you guys get it figured out :confused: :D
Gopherrr Short sweet and to the point without a technical explaination.
Why didn't I think of that?

[JetBoatRich]

Ian the shorts and Mullett was pretty funny, The colds are only an arm distance from the boat in the garage, so that is not a problem.
wink
idea I will mess with it this weekend. idea

[Liberator TJ1984]

Info...I'm usually learning something from ya... :D
But since I work in what seems to be an Adult Daycare center , I gotta break things down in simpler form..
also I had one of those 177's and went thru the same crap they are going thru untill I took that damn nut off and had to get a shorter belt cause it went all the way in....
Gopherrr

[JetBoatRich]

Calm down about the day care, I will try it.
The belt is real tough to get on as it is, shorter belt would be real tough to get on.

[Liberator TJ1984]

JetBoatRich:
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-010l.JPG Just razzin'ya JBR wink
with the belt on and under tension you should have approx. 1/2" to 3/4" of threads out where the nut is now so you will have enough free travel from the cotter pin hole to the housing..only other thing like Info said is to check the alighnment ???

[JetBoatRich]

I can twist this thing pretty easy, I will take it and and see if anything stands out.

[JetBoatRich]

Put a new belt on and no nut, seems to move in pretty easy. Sping seems a little weak.
I watched the belt walk off the idler/tensioner. The adjustment screw never was near the end, so the nut is not the problem? A smaller belt would keep it tighter and use more of the spring?

[Infomaniac]

A smaller belt or new spring.
Even if the nut was not the problem, it is not supposed to stay on.

[JetBoatRich]

Stepped down the belt size, to small, no room to move. I will call holley on Monday and get a tensioner.

[JetBoatRich]

Dam double post
[ February 24, 2003, 04:45 PM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

[JetBoatRich]

Ordered a new pulley today, Holley said that is the problem. For $187 it better be, they were 4 weeks out on delivery. Summit racing had one and it will be here by the weekend so I can test it out.

[HalletDave]

Summit to the rescue. :D
HD

[ACCEPTENCE]

JetBoatRich:
Ordered a new pulley today, Holley said that is the problem. For $187 it better be, they were 4 weeks out on delivery. Summit racing had one and it will be here by the weekend so I can test it out. Did I read in an earlier post the pully was bugered or needed cleaning????
Pully tearing up the belt, that would make sence.
I don't have this kind of blower set up but after reading this entire thread, I did learn something new and thats always a good thing, thanks...

[JetBoatRich]

The spring would not hold the belt tight, I will let you know the outcome

[JetBoatRich]

UPDATE:
The new pulley came in today and well, they changed the design :confused: Talked to Holley and they said you can not get the old one anymore. Isn't that great yuk I might be able to mount the new one to the blower or I need someone to make me a bracket devil
A slight set-back, do more work this weekend and see how to work it.

[Liberator TJ1984]

JetBoatRich:
The spring would not hold the belt tight, I will let you know the outcome JBR , Holley does not have a new spring to sell, or have you tried to stretch the one you got out to restore tension again...just my Southern'Engineering surfacing again ..keep us posted ..Good Luck

[JetBoatRich]

That is the engineering that gets us through everyday, thanks

[Infomaniac]

JetBoatRich:
UPDATE:
The new pulley came in today and well, they changed the design :confused: Talked to Holley and they said you can not get the old one anymore. Isn't that great yuk I might be able to mount the new one to the blower or I need someone to make me a bracket devil
A slight set-back, do more work this weekend and see how to work it. Is there a square pad cast in the drive snout?

[JetBoatRich]

Call me stupid if you want,
what is the drive snoot?

[JetBoatRich]

Are you talking about the bottom of the front part of the blower?

[Infomaniac]

Yes. Just behind the blower pulley on the bottom side.
If the pad is there, just get the new style idler.
[ February 27, 2003, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[JetBoatRich]

Infomaniac:
Yes. Just behind the blower pulley on the bottom side.
If the pad is there, just get the new style idler. You are good, that is what holley said. They believe I have not checked, I have a place to mount the pulley?

[Infomaniac]

If the square pad is there, buy the new style idler, drill and tap the holes if they are not there, mount the new idler, problem solved.

[JetBoatRich]

I have the flat mounting area on the blower, but it is 4" away from the belt? Is there another barcket for the bracket?
Sorry for the 100 questions.

[Infomaniac]

There is a different idler bracket for that one. Everything else should be the same. If you need a new spring too just call Holley and ask for the idler assembly. Return what you bought and keep your old parts for spares.
[ February 27, 2003, 08:00 PM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[JetBoatRich]

That blows, this was $190. Well at least I know I have an option.
Thanks for all the help, you have been right on with the information.

[Infomaniac]

JetBoatRich:
That blows, this was $190. Well at least I know I have an option.
Thanks for all the help, you have been right on with the information. Return that and buy the whole assembly.

[JetBoatRich]

I will call Holley get the right part number and then summit in the morning.

[JetBoatRich]

They don't make one to fit anymore? This is according to Holley devil
Looks like I need to fabricate something?

[GofastRacer]

Make a turnbuckle dealio and adjust tention manually. From what I see in the pics, it shouldn't be too hard to do!.. :confused:

[Liberator TJ1984]

http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-010l.JPG
I agree with Go-Fast
Take your pulley assy.out and weld a piece of all thread to it almost the same size as the inside of the tube where the spring was, that way you can double jam nut it and run manual tension adjustment...S.E. kicking in again
Gopherrr

[Liberator TJ1984]

Liberator TJ1984:
http://free.***boat.net/ubb/Avatars/Forum_Graphic_Depot/Mvc-010l.JPG
I agree with Go-Fast
Take your pulley assy.out and weld a piece of all thread to it the same size as the inside of the tube where the spring was, that way you can double jam nut it and run manual tension adjustment...S.E. kicking in again
Gopherrr

[Infomaniac]

JetBoatRich:
They don't make one to fit anymore? This is according to Holley devil
Looks like I need to fabricate something? Buy the new style that bolts to the blower snout. Drill the holes and there you go.

[JetBoatRich]

Not sure where to drill into, no platform? The actual platform is only 1" wide which is 4" from the pulley.
[ February 28, 2003, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: JetBoatRich ]

[Infomaniac]

JetBoatRich:
Not sure where to drill into, no platform? The actual platform is only 1" wide which is 4" from the pulley. That is the one. Only 2 bolts . The new idler will bolt there and line up with the pulley
You may or omay not have the right snout. Here is a pic.
http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/AMS/SC_pics/f77-174_CBB.jpg
[ February 28, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Infomaniac ]

[JetBoatRich]

Different, on the bottom where it is real wide. That is all I have, it does not continue.
I will post a picture tonight

[GofastRacer]

May I suggest something simple here??. wink
http://www.***boat.net/image_center/data/500/12Blown_Jet1.jpg
I know, I know, I'm a smart ass but WTF!... :D :D :D

[JetBoatRich]

I like it!

[Infomaniac]

Now Why didn't I think of that? :rolleyes:

[JetBoatRich]

http://www.***boat.net/image_center/data/506/78Mvc-001l-med.jpg

[JetBoatRich]

http://www.***boat.net/image_center/data/500/78Mvc-004l-med.jpg

[JetBoatRich]

http://www.***boat.net/image_center/data/500/78Mvc-005l-med.jpg

[JetBoatRich]

We are going to try something, turned the barcket around from the block, this took the roller out about an inch. Put a different belt and seems to holding. Going out in two weeks, will know for sure after that.