Don't Look Know - We've Been Conditioned

[Essex502]

I found the following on the 'Net:
Don't look now, but we've been conditioned
Just think how excited you are nowadays when you find regular gasoline for $1.88 a gallon or lower.
We've been conditioned.
The chirpy oil company spokespersons in their power suits all tell us that the prices at the pump in recent months have been directly pushed up and down by market forces.
But think about it.
A couple of weeks with the price above $2 a gallon sure makes those gas station signs look better when they say $1.80 or $1.90.
That probably will keep the griping down through the summer - with prices likely to spike up again around July 4.
Then, if the OPEC plans to boost production stay in place, we probably will see pump prices come down a ways in the fall.
In the meantime, billions of dollars in profits will be coming from all the gallons sold at just under $2.
And we'll all be happy just because it isn't above $2.
Courtesy of The Advertiser-Tribune

[Freak]

Well all be happy when it's just $2 a gal in a year from now.

[Riverready]

It does make sense............. Man they are good!

[eliminatedsprinter]

Essex502
This is correct it is conditioning. Every year they are like kids testing their limits with the buying public. If we keep buying at these prices, they will likely stay high. I'm still buying gas for my boat and RV, but I am trying to drive less and have less of a heavy foot in my daily driving in reponse to these prices.

[goneboatin]

....."and the oil companies are just raising prices to cover thier costs incurred due the more expensive OPEC prices."
Yeah right, and somehow they end upmaking record profits at the end of the fiscal year! Go figure.

[Fiat48]

They are not as smart as they think they are. The american public will pay whatever they charge. They'll bitch a little but still pay and wait in line to do so.
By the way, did you know diesel is only $1.97 in Reno? :D

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Fiat48
By the way, did you know diesel is only $1.97 in Reno? :D
Heck, at that price I am going to use it to clean all my parts!!!!

[BarryMac]

Did you notice that the price of a barrel of fuel has come down over $4.00 in the last week, look at the prices of gas at the pump, it has come down only about .02 cents since the decrease.
I was in a class once with some folks that worked at a Chevron refinery in South America, I asked how many gallons of gas they get out of a 55 gallon barrel, they told me after it has been refined they get in excess of 200 gallons.
We might as well bend over, grab our ankles and take it, and don't expect any lube...
gjb

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Originally posted by gottajetboat
Did you notice that the price of a barrel of fuel has come down over $4.00 in the last week, look at the prices of gas at the pump, it has come down only about .02 cents since the decrease.
I was in a class once with some folks that worked at a Chevron refinery in South America, I asked how many gallons of gas they get out of a 55 gallon barrel, they told me after it has been refined they get in excess of 200 gallons.
We might as well bend over, grab our ankles and take it, and don't expect any lube...
gjb
How is that possible? How do you take a 55 gallon drum and get in excess of 4 times the original amount in a by-product of the original product? Am I missing something here?

[FRENCHIE]

Originally posted by Fiat48
They are not as smart as they think they are. The american public will pay whatever they charge. They'll bitch a little but still pay and wait in line to do so.
By the way, did you know diesel is only $1.97 in Reno? :D
do you know how much reg unled is in rnoe and upper nevada??:confused:

[Essex502]

Originally posted by gottajetboat
Did you notice that the price of a barrel of fuel has come down over $4.00 in the last week, look at the prices of gas at the pump, it has come down only about .02 cents since the decrease.
I was in a class once with some folks that worked at a Chevron refinery in South America, I asked how many gallons of gas they get out of a 55 gallon barrel, they told me after it has been refined they get in excess of 200 gallons.
We might as well bend over, grab our ankles and take it, and don't expect any lube...
gjb
In one of many article I've come across since this gas BS started it stated that for every $1 of cost of crude translated to $0.025 cents in refined gasoline. Yes...two and one-half cents per gallon. Yes, the stations raise the price immediately when crude goes up but don't take the price downwards for as long as the market will let them keep it high. That's why independent stations are so important to a free market...to provide a check and balance against the company owned stations. (which are most all of the stations in SoCal.

[HCS]

My uncle owned an independent station. He retired at age 50.
What's that tell ya.

[BarryMac]

Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
How is that possible? How do you take a 55 gallon drum and get in excess of 4 times the original amount in a by-product of the original product? Am I missing something here?
I'm not exactly sure, I wish I would have asked but time was of the essence and we never were able to get back to our original conversation.

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by Essex502
In one of many article I've come across since this gas BS started it stated that for every $1 of cost of crude translated to $0.025 cents in refined gasoline. Yes...two and one-half cents per gallon. Yes, the stations raise the price immediately when crude goes up but don't take the price downwards for as long as the market will let them keep it high. That's why independent stations are so important to a free market...to provide a check and balance against the company owned stations. (which are most all of the stations in SoCal.
Being in the business I can tell you that this for the most part is not true. First of all most stations are not company owned. Just because the sign says 76, Exxon, Mobil ect... does not mean that the oil company owns the stations. Most are owned by dealers or re-sellers.
As far as profit margin is concerned most stations keep their pool margin (average profit margin on all grades combined) the same. If the oil company raises the price the dealer is paying for the fuel then the price gets raised at the pumps.
When prices are high most dealers are not able to make as much margin as when the prices are low, so it hurts everybody (except maybe the oil company).
As far as independent stations go I would be careful. People that I know that own independent (non branded) stations usually buy gas from the cheapest source and therefor have no control over quality. I would not put gas from a non branded station in my boat. If I was puting it in a cheap car I might not be so concerned, but definitely nothing high performance.
I own 76 (Conoco Phillips) branded stations, and I know the quality of the fuel is the best out there with possibly Chevron being a close second. My.02

[Essex502]

To politefully disagree with you Hava Cig...many articles in the recent months discuss the oil company consolidtations and their buying up the independent gasoline distributers and resellers. An example is the lease-buyout of the independent Thrifty stations (see Price Manipulation (http://www.ucan.org/consumer_info/gasdocs/) ) Couple this with the dubious practice of zone pricing and you have the ability to "game" the market seemingly like the electricl marketplace of 2000-2001 in California.
While not an insider like yourself, I am vigilently following the goings-on with this so called crisis. I don't hold the privately owned (branded or not) gasoline staions responsible but do hold the major oil companies, refiners (usually the same 5 big oil companes) & big oil owned gasoline stations as responsible for this manipulation.
We have numerous "company stores" in area where I live. They are always the highest price gasoline...I've read where this is common practice to "test the market for what the consumer is willing to bear" with raising prices to these levels.
I agree with you on USING branded gas...I burn just about anything in my Civic commuter-mobile but only Unocal (Union 76) or Chevron in my boat motor. I understand that the un-branded gasoline - while refined at the same refinery in many cases as the branded gasolines - won't have the same additive package.

[mirvin]

Originally posted by Havasu_Dreamin
How is that possible? How do you take a 55 gallon drum and get in excess of 4 times the original amount in a by-product of the original product? Am I missing something here?
The 55 gallon drum is crude oil. Thick ass stuff. WHen they refine it they thin it out thus stretching it to over 200 gallons.
mirvin;)

[Ziggy]

I predicted this would happen long, long, long ago when we were still under a buck. Every year it has crept up after a spike.
.
HavCig,
an independent station near me has been very frank with me(we do biz outside of gas) and told me that he buys most of his gas from the major refineries but in a less perfected grade...ie it might be say Exxon/Modil fuel but before the more expensive additives/cleansers have been added. Is this possible or a crock?
.
And may I add, the stations themselves are not the ones setting the prices, they have a particular margin they provide themselves, usually in the pennies per gal. range.

[Essex502]

Ziggy - you're right on the less additive/cleansers on the gas independents buy. This keeps their costs down and provides an alternative for those who don't care. It also, by reason of competition, aids the lowering of the wholesale price sold to the "branded" stations. (Search the web if you're really interested on "zone pricing"). Also, branded, company-owned stations are setting their prices higher that branded, non-company owned stations to test what the market will bear for a price...if they raise the price too high then the volume of gasoline sales will drop. They inch the price up as high as possible. That help the companies set the wholesale cost to the other stations. This si well documented if you search a little. Oil companies actually send "spies" out at night in certain locations to check the meters on their competitions gas pumps to see how much they pump each day/week. Again - well documented with the zone pricing argument.
Mirvin - the documented $0.025 increase in gasoline cost for every dollar of crude oil increase or decrease indicates about 40 gallons of gasoline is refined from a barrel of crude. 1/0.025 = 40.

[HammerDown]

Ok, our gas went from $2.35 down to $2.31.
And I'm supposed to feel good about that:mad:
What also twist my nutz is when it's time to raise it it goes up in leaps and bounds...but when they say it will come down it's slower than snot rolling off a frozen door knob:yuk:
Prick F**KS:mad:

[Fiat48]

$2.21 is cheapest gas in Reno/Sparks and diesel today is cheap at $1.89. I am so trained! :D

[Krazy K]

Too bad the Toyota Prius can't pull your boat. Just wait until they come out with Hybrid Ford/Chevy/Dodge fullsize truck. That will be the day when we all can drive by the stations and give them the 1 fingered salute!

[HammerDown]

Originally posted by Krazy K
Too bad the Toyota Prius can't pull your boat. Just wait until they come out with Hybrid Ford/Chevy/Dodge fullsize truck. That will be the day when we all can drive by the stations and give them the 1 fingered salute!
Sorry no Toyota, Honda or any other foreign name plate vehicle for me...EVER!
And you can bet on this. When we go full bore about running Bio Diesel (used cooking oil) for fuel...McDonalds will be selling it to us for $3.00 a gallon.
Some how their gonna hose us.:rolleyes:

[Havasu Cig]

Essex,
I think you would be suprised at the number of company owned stations. I don't know of any here in the town I live in in North San Diego County, and Conoco Phillips is trying to sell the company owned stores they do have.
I was at there So. Cal. Headquarters last month and they are trying to get out of the land business and would rather just sell gas to re-sellers.
I don't know about the other brands, but I have met alot of people in the business and it seems the other brands are mostly owned by dealers or re-sellers as well.
This still does not change the fact that the oil companies can set gas prices. It just forces the dealers / re-sellers to raise their prices. And as someone else mentioned the margins are in the pennies range. Most stations are making money from service bays, stores, or car washes.
Ziggy,
It is true that your friend could be buying from Exxon/ Mobile before their refining process is done. The refining process is what separates the quality of fuel between the different brands.

[Essex502]

Hava Cig...I do agree...the margin at the dealer's pump is pennies....a lot of pennies the more gallons the sell. It's the Oil Companies and the Company owned refineries that piss me off.
We have a company owned (they say as I asked) Mobil station just a couple of blocks from a dealer owned Mobil station...company owned is always 5 to 6 cents higher per grade. Go down the street a little further is an Exxon station that is usually the cheapest station in the valley - even less than what used to be an Ultramar and is now a Valero station.

[HM]

I like high gas prices.....less traffic.:D
HavCig....where are your stations? I would gladly pay more to support one of ***boat's finest!! As a retired chemical salesman, loyalty is worth $0.02/lb (translates to $0.16/gallon). Do you have any high octane stuff?

[little rowe boat]

Hell no,I haven't been conditioned,I am still pissed off about the frickin prices of gas and diesel.

[repo man]

it's not just gas it's every thing. milk is $4 a gallon .

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by HolyMoly
I like high gas prices.....less traffic.:D
HavCig....where are your stations? I would gladly pay more to support one of ***boat's finest!! As a retired chemical salesman, loyalty is worth $0.02/lb (translates to $0.16/gallon). Do you have any high octane stuff?
Two in San Diego, and we are in escrow on another in Vista. Probably a long drive for you, but I appreciate the offer.;) :cool:

[JustMVG]

All of this that i have read over the last few minutes is very interesting, but let me point out that the closer we get to November the lower gas prices are going to go, i am a Bush supporter and a life long Republican, that said, look at the recent talk with the Saudi's and with OPEC, suddenly they feel a need to help curb the rising prices in the good ole US of A, and i say this with all due repect to those in the military and public sector that are involved with Iraq, at what cost and what do the Saudi's
and the rest of the middle eastern friends we have left want from the US. My guess is that they can work with Bush and his admin. far better than they ever could with anykind of Kerry admin. "Thats just my opinion , I could be wrong" (Dennis Miller)
Mike VG

[Essex502]

Originally posted by MandMVG
All of this that i have read over the last few minutes is very interesting, but let me point out that the closer we get to November the lower gas prices are going to go, i am a Bush supporter and a life long Republican, that said, look at the recent talk with the Saudi's and with OPEC, suddenly they feel a need to help curb the rising prices in the good ole US of A, and i say this with all due repect to those in the military and public sector that are involved with Iraq, at what cost and what do the Saudi's
and the rest of the middle eastern friends we have left want from the US. My guess is that they can work with Bush and his admin. far better than they ever could with anykind of Kerry admin. "Thats just my opinion , I could be wrong" (Dennis Miller)
Mike VG
If the gasoline price drops significantly it won't be because of Bush or the Saudis. It'll be because of the Oil Companies lowering their refinery margin. The margin in Calif is approximately $0.62 per gallon of gas where the gulf states the refinery margins are around $0.22. Refineries are running at near capacity throughout the U.S. and no new refineries are in site. Every drop in the crude oil price equates to $0.025 at the pump. Only only thing Bush and his fellow Capitol Hill folks can do it pressure his backers (oil companies) to lower there profit margins. Doubtful.