Enderle advice please

[DetroitJim]

I'm going to take a shot at running a birdcatcher on my hydro, the pair of 750 Edelbrocks have taken me to 8.20 and no further. I keep speeding up the blower and it just doesn't go any quicker. What I need is some baseline setup info, here's the deal:
540 BBC on gas, drag only.
8-71 blower, no teflon strips, 8 to 14% overdriven.
Boost is in the range of 8-14 lbs.
The hat I picked up is currently #28 nozzles, 120 pill, 25% barrel valve setting, 0.013 butterfly clearance. This is the Enderle baseline for a 468 with a 6-71 at 10% under.
So, do I change the pill only or the nozzles too? The pump I have is a fresh 80A-1, 7 gpm. Any and all comments appreciated. I need to get it right the first time, it's 720 miles to the next race!
This is at St. Louis last weekend.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/181Dscn0215-med.jpg

[Hud]

Save yourself some time & call Enderle! May be even send the hat to them & have them flow it for you! They are easy to deal with too! 805-526-3838

[GofastRacer]

If you're not familiar on how injection works, I'd do as Hud says, send the whole thing to Enderle, tell them what you have and they will send it back to you ready to run, all you will need to do is minor tweaking...

[Fiat48]

You're not going to arrive at the race tuned even if you send it to Enderle. You'll get down the track and be fat. You'll have to go from there. Call him and discuss what you have. He'll probably tell you to increase nozzle size to about a 32, richen the barrell valve a little and baseline with the .120 pill and no high speed. Butterfly clearance is usually .010, but .013 is o.k.
You'll have to work with it..but you'll like it.

[GofastRacer]

Originally posted by Fiat48
You're not going to arrive at the race tuned even if you send it to Enderle. You'll get down the track and be fat. You'll have to go from there. Call him and discuss what you have. He'll probably tell you to increase nozzle size to about a 32, richen the barrell valve a little and baseline with the .120 pill and no high speed. Butterfly clearance is usually .010, but .013 is o.k.
You'll have to work with it..but you'll like it.
Hey don't scare him away!..:D :D

[MAXIMUS]

Originally posted by Fiat48
You're not going to arrive at the race tuned even if you send it to Enderle. You'll get down the track and be fat. You'll have to go from there. Call him and discuss what you have. He'll probably tell you to increase nozzle size to about a 32, richen the barrell valve a little and baseline with the .120 pill and no high speed. Butterfly clearance is usually .010, but .013 is o.k.
You'll have to work with it..but you'll like it.
Exactly what I was thinking...:D

[Fiat48]

O.k.
Send the Injector and pump with the fittings in it to Jim Kinsler and he will set it up very very close.
Above all don't be skeered. You'll never go back to carbs.
What are you looking to pick up? 2/10's and run 8.0's? Or more?
Have alcohol tune up. Can travel.
:D

[T-Bag]

When I had a 468 I ran .33 nozzles and would vary on pill size range from 116-124.. with a 6-71 at 26%over and 13-14lbs of boost.Now I run a 523 with a 12-71 26% and have .30 's in the hat and .20's in the prots....

[Jr. bentpipes]

T-BAG will give you good advice, I would definately ask his opinion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DetroitJim]

Thanks, this is the info I need. Kinsler is actually right down the road from me but I want to hear what setups people are actually running before I head over there. I could probably find 2 tenths without the hat deal but I'm a compulsive tinkerer. Plus the hat looks way cool. The carbs have worked very well, I have had a lot of people come by in the pits and poke fun at the Edelbrocks but they shut up when it runs 140. Hopefully with the hat I can back off the blower and maybe even gear it up a little.
DJ

[Fiat48]

Be sure to pick up a Kinsler catalog while you are there. Lot of tuning tips and valuable information in there. If you can afford him, Kinsler is the man for fuel injection.

[fastvdriver]

why stay on gas when you are setting up a system? alky is alot better on parts and you will not have to work the engine as hard. don't worry about the compression for the gas because you will just have to spin the blower a little more to make that up and with the set up that you have the lower gas compression will be better for staying in the 8 sec. class. with a motor of that size you will more than likely be spinning the blower around the 0% mark to stay in the 8's if you have a hull that weighs around the 500 lbs area. just my 2 cents good luck and be safe. I run a very heavy flat in the 9's on alky with a 498 at 10 to 1 with 10 lbs of boost at 5% under.:)

[DetroitJim]

I suppose I'll go to alky eventually but for now I have an 80A pump and a gas barrel valve, plus I'm in the middle of the high points series and need to keep it simple. Just looking for 2-3 tenths with what I have already bought. I would rather just slap on a couple 950's but the hat is paid for. What other short block changes would be in order for alky besides higher compression? Will 8 to 1 actually run well and idle? Aren't the rings supposed to be chrome or tool steel or whatever? Different gaps? What about the MSD-6? Do I need to ditch it for a mag? My current cooling setup runs at 150 degrees, wouldn't alky run colder? Seems like too much to change for now.
DJ

[Fiat48]

Alky don't care. 80a pump works fine. They are all I have ever run on car or in the boat. 8 to 1 compression will run fine. More compression is better but alky don't care.
If anywhere in left field of the fuel curve it'll haul ass. Get closer to what it wants and you change oil less often and haul even more ass.
Small pump alcohol:
80A pump
50 Hat nozzles.
No ports required.
No high speed.
34 degrees timing
50 pill to start.
Blower underdrive to start or you might trip the 7.70 rule and go home early.

[fastvdriver]

the big change would be the mag I would ditch the msd although they say you can run the msd on alky with the new HVC 2 coil only about $100. for the coil. the thing to remeber is most people go to alky to run faster than the 8's look at all of the hydro's that have alot of trouble detuning enough to stay in the 8's we have a hydro in CDBA that is know 9 to 1 on alky with a 12-71 under driven at about 10% and still is going to fast also a big inch motor. remeber also when you go to alky you will be able to lower the motors RPM's because you will not need that much power making the motor run longer with less broken parts. you are going to have a hugh hill to climb in learning about the injection and were to set things up at remeber not to many other people out there are running on gas. the ones that are may have broken engines. and not running still I have only seen one that ran ok and he is now broken. good luck with the points chase

[Jr. bentpipes]

Hey there fastvdriver,out of curiosity,what is wrong with the msd? I have one and run the stack injectors,on alcohol,did some homework,and everybody said it would be fine,and it runs great, just want to know why the mag, even the new msd mags( to me) are not what they are supposed to be, I have a freind here that runs a 12 in a car and he has trouble starting the damn thing all the time, sent it back and they said try the 20, they also said that it needs to turn over 250 rpm or better to start, this is naturally aspirated, which I realize that with a blower it is easier with the static compression being lower. NO pun intended here just conversation!!!!! I spent a lot of money at kinsler,very knowledgable,but very slow and pricey, but I do have a nice product!!!!:D

[Fiat48]

Blown gas to blown alky hydro in progress. Uses 80A pump.
Will be ready to fire tomorrow.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374front-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374rear-med.JPG
My Flat. 509 inches with 80A pump:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/374plumb-med.JPG

[Morg]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Blown gas to blown alky hydro in progress. Uses 80A pump.
Will be ready to fire tomorrow.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374front-med.JPG
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374rear-med.JPG
My Flat. 509 inches with 80A pump:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/374plumb-med.JPG
K-Morg. Come on:D :D :D :rolleyes:

[BLOWNDEAVER]

FIAT , What size fuel pimp ent. if any did you have to run on that KUHL water pump, I just bought one , they look great, AND IF YOU STILL HAVE LINE ON THE GEARS WE SPOKE ABOUT send me an address ,I finally got more than air in wallet!!!!!

[Fiat48]

The Kuhl water pump is drilled to accept and 80A or Pg-150 hilborn pump. But a 110 pump will fit if you drill matching holes in the 110 pump.
The Kuhl timing cover (his new model) does not fit his own water pump. I had to locate, drill and tap new holes for the water pump to mount to the timing cover.
Those buying Kuhl water pump and cover be warned. The two close together holes...I had no choice. :mad:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374pattern-med.JPG:mad:

[fastvdriver]

Originally posted by Jr. bentpipes
Hey there fastvdriver,out of curiosity,what is wrong with the msd? I have one and run the stack injectors,on alcohol,did some homework,and everybody said it would be fine,and it runs great, just want to know why the mag, even the new msd mags( to me) are not what they are supposed to be, I have a freind here that runs a 12 in a car and he has trouble starting the damn thing all the time, sent it back and they said try the 20, they also said that it needs to turn over 250 rpm or better to start, this is naturally aspirated, which I realize that with a blower it is easier with the static compression being lower. NO pun intended here just conversation!!!!! I spent a lot of money at kinsler,very knowledgable,but very slow and pricey, but I do have a nice product!!!!:D
Didn't say anything was wrong with the MSD just that when you are trying to find a problem. and you don't have a complete new replacement parts it is hard to walk down the pits and find someone that is running the items that MSD calls for with alky. as compared to the number of people that have Mags. and yes it is hard to start a injected motor with out a blower because of the compression. (roll motor over first with mag off and then turn mag on after the motor is spinning) may start better.