Education or License or Nada

[Rexone]

Based on what I see in the Boat length in Topock Gorge thread (bench racers forum) I'm curious as to what your views are on mandatory education and/or mandatory licensing for boaters. Feel free to explain why.

[CrazyHippy]

Voluntary unless you do something stupid, I think a safe boater class should be mandatory after just about any ticket.
BJH

[Brady Bunch]

I 2nd that

[76BARRON]

I don't want to beat a dead horse ,so ill try and keep it short.
1. Boaters with poor boating skill's/education SUCK!
2. PWC's (most,not all) have become a nuisance to all
The fix? liecenceing/education
(We may never be able fix the jerk factor)
3. Big boats on the ocean,lakes and such, GREAT! River?
So before I stick my foot in my mouth with my next comment
let me say where I'm coming from. I'v been on/off the
parker strip over 35+yr's. Parker Strip was made famous
(notorious?)by the many bad ass flatbottom's,hydro's
and other race(type) boats of the day, along with the
many race's held there.(not offshore!) You could go to any of
the 3 or 4 floating bar's and see 6 to 8+ boat's at each ,now
it's 3or 4 big boat's with even bigger stereo's.(and it seem's
like they never leave) BUT ! It does make a GREAT party!
But walk over to it (no boat parking/little or no concern for
smaller boat's that maybe in the area) naturally some NOT all
do try to make an effort to be responsible! kudo's to them!
Don't get me wrong I love boat's!all boat's! even the big
offshore type's! We have flat bottoms and a 26 ft but have yet
see why it is so gosh darn important to put the" BIG" boat on
Parker Strip!!!Oh'well,no worries!It will never change and Im
not going to try.I just go to place's and events that the big
boat growd does not.See! problem solved!
I do not know if any of this could or should be regulated.
BUT!
I do belive that there "MUST" be some sort of liecense or
education certificate involved! I think that most who read these
board's will agree,as we all have been a target /victim of an
jerk/idiot in a boat/P.W.C.
Last but not least ; How many of you boater's have your
U.S Power Squadron,Coast Guard Certificate or equivalent ?
I have mine!
That is the real fix ! A least a start !
so much for kepping it short, sorry

[Roxysnow]

Originally posted by CrazyHippy
Voluntary unless you do something stupid, I think a safe boater class should be mandatory after just about any ticket.
BJH
Full on agree with that!

[eliminatedsprinter]

Ill never support licensing of boaters, because the DMV will screw it up for all of us. I would support doing something simple like making all dealers show a basic law and safety vidio to all who purchase boats or PWC's .
As far as size limits, I'm sure some places could use them. However, the cost of drive units should make that a somewhat self limiting problem.

[Scream]

I have seen way too many knucklheads on the water, and thinking back to when I had my first boat, I probably could have used a lot of instruction in safety and basic knowledge.
Boaters (new) and PWC'ers need at least basic instruction. Probably the best is to require all sales to include a video course, which may not be adequate, but it is better than nothing.

[Havasu Cig]

I was against licenses, but after launching at Katherines a couple weeks ago and seeing all the stupid $hit people were doing I may change my mind.
If people were mandated to take a class it might cut down on some of the stupid things people do. :confused:

[Boatcop]

You shouldn't lump licensing and mandatory education into one category.
I'm dead set against formal licensing, but 110% in favor of mandatory education and certification.
Of the hundreds of students I've taught, not one has gone away without learning something new, and/or finding out they've been doing things wrong. Some of these have several decades of boating experience, including one who writes a column for Hot Boat. (I won't mention any names, Jim.)
Add to this the FACT that of those involved in accidents, over 90% have never had any formal boating education or training.
Come and listen to me ramble on for 8 hours, and I guarantee that you'll walk away a better boater. You could also save up to 25% on your boat insurance at the same time. That alone should have you folks beating down my door to take the class.
Our judges out here are already sending boaters to class for serious boating violations, and California law mandates that those convicted of boating "moving" violations go to class.
But licensing? We don't need any more bureaucracy mucking up the sport. A card that says you've taken a course, should be all that's required.

[76BARRON]

2 hour's every wednesday for 8 week's.
plus home work every week.
U.S.P.S. work book,coarse plotter,dividers,chart and a good eraser then a 95 question test , is what it takes to get a
U.S. Power Squadron Cert.
It kinda makes you wonder how much you can get out of a 1 hour
or less video tape? I support 100% anyone who does "anything"
to improve their knowledge or skill's on the water.
I can't help but wonder what it's like for "BOATCOP" to have to deal with the dope's on the water every friggin day!
It's good to know your out there! And I will always be polite
when you pull me over to check for "noise" no matter how many time's a day you check me :D I was thinking about putting some number's on my boat like Hmmmm.....89 db .what do you think?:D
THANK'S Boat Cop , Keep after the jerk's

[Kim Hanson]

In Tardvill we don't need it till 2009, but I challenged it and got it..I'm a licenced boater now, if that card really proves anything but that I took the test..it's all bullshit to me..If you where born after 1980, you don't drive anything on the water with out the course .........( . )( . ).........:)

[MrWilliam]

I mainly lurk but on this issue I must reply.
The only requirement for one to get onto the water is credit, which is available to everyone. And in that group there are many who don't know the rules of the road (water). You don't even have to know much; just realize how much trouble you can get into on the water in a hurry.
So my vote is for a mandatory boating class before registration.

[bigkatboat]

What is the difference between 'licensing' and 'certification' ? Do you require your 'students' to PASS a test at the end of your course? I have taken a number of 'courses' over the past 35 years and many follow the basics of COMMON SENSE, so if that is what you are teaching, your certificate IS a license, and you can call it what you like. EVERY boat that I have built, I've taken the new owner out and demonstrated how each and everything works on his/her boat. Most all of the boats I've built have had MAJOR POWER, and I wanted to be sure that the owner and his family understood the 'problems' that may arise from operating a 'performance boat at speeds'. I do not dismiss my responsibility in delivering such a craft, however I want to know where my control ends, and the BOAT OPERATOR'S responsibility begin? It seems that today 'no one is responsible' for their OWN actions, and it's a 'design fault', or a 'part failure'. Today it is too easy for first time boaters to purchase and operate PERFORMANCE BOATS, without ANY instruction. Passing a test and getting a "LICENSE", are the best way to find out who can and who cann't!

[Tom Brown]

I think education is a good idea but I don't believe there is any regulation that can remove the jerk factor.

[Boatcop]

Yes, there's a test at the end of the course. 50 questions, 80% passing. The difference between licensing and certification is the way the program is administered.
By "licensing" I'm referring to a driver's licensing deal. Where you pay your fee, take a 20 question test, get your picture taken and be on your way. Then renew every X number of years. It's developed into an endless bureaucracy. And as we all know, having a drivers license doesn't make one a safe and/or competent driver. As it is now, the only ones who have to take any kind of drivers education or training are those under 18.
Education and certification is taking the class, passing the test, and getting your card. Good for life. The class is the key here.
You can teach a monkey to push a throttle and turn a wheel. But having someone know, understand, and apply proper navigation rules, lighting requirements, and other basics is a different story.
At least with the education aspect, as it applies to boats, the boater will have the basics of nevigation and safe boating. A whole hell of a lot better than it is today.
And in anticipation of the next negative comment, it is not a new "tax" or revenue raising deal. The classes I give are 100% free, and as long as I'm doing it, always will be.

[HCS]

I have benifited highly by taking the Boating safety course every
year. I drills the rules in your head.
Go ahead, ask me anything.:D
j/k I'm do to take it again.:rolleyes:

[Tom Brown]

Originally posted by HARDCORE-SKI
Go ahead, ask me anything.
Why is the BAC limit .08 instead of 0.1 where the good lord intended it to be?

[bigkatboat]

What does the buoy with the black stripes mean?

[HighRoller]

I've always thought that anyone who wanted to rent a Sea-Doo should have to take a four hour course first. The first benefit is the education, and the secondary benefit is eliminating those who aren't really serious about getting on the water. I think a safety course should be mandatory for operating a boat nowadays because it's not just stab and steer anymore. How many times have we seen people driving on the wrong side of the road/river? I will definitely take boatcop's course when I buy my next boat because there are certain things I want to know about even though I've been boating for 30+ years. As far as the boat length limit, I would like to see something done in the gorge but just limiting length isn't enough because there are a lot of 26ft cats running around recklessly. I think a 40mph speed limit would be nice, enforced with a radar picket and also a mandatory safety/OUI checkpoint right where Havasu narrows into the river. It's nice and shallow there and I'm thinkin after a few Don Johnson wannabees frag their drives trying to get going again they'll just stop going up there. Or at least one can dream!!

[bigkatboat]

The renewal is the 'key' to keeping people UP TO DATE on the latest ideas and problems. I took the USCG safe boating course back in 1970 for the first time. So I don't need to update? I need up dating almost every year, I boat on Havasu and Parker. (lots of traffic) I need to know what (that's new) to look for, and still keep my 'basics' up to date. Education IS THE FIRST THING, but refreshing your 'basics', I feel is a never ending job. With the power and speed that PWC's and REAL BOATS have today, I think it's FOOLISH to go boating without any type of safety course FIRST. I feel, EVERY TWO YEARS, go back and get yourself "back into reality" . Boating is fun, if you make it safe for everyone. Also, some 'basics of boat systems' should be required. Many people don't know what the 'switches on the dash' are for. Boaters need to know "how things work", so that they don't panic in a critical situation.

[Boatcop]

If you only know what 1 buoy is for, the white buoy with the black stripes is probably one of THE most important ones out there.
The other ones usually have what they mean, on them. No Wake. Boats Keep Out. Hazard. Reef. etc. Anyone who know's how to read can see what they're for. (If they'd take the time to look.)
The white w/black stripes means DO NOT GO BETWEEN BUOY AND SHORE!
All of our lakes, here in the west, are nothing more than flooded canyons. Those canyons retain their original land formation, so the ridges, arroyos, etc. extend out into the water, often making narrow strips of shallow water.
The buoys with the black stripes are set out at the end of those strips, indicating that the area between them and the shore is shallow.
They used to be white with red stripes, but too many people mistook them for red nun channel buoys, so in 2002, they were changed to black.

[Mandelon]

I'd hate to have to submit to more regulation and fees to be able to do one of the last free things that I really enjoy.
I see more issues caused by PWC's than by boaters too, since the owners let any numbnut friend take them out for a spin. And the rental companies are even worse. No education, no video just put on your vest and buzz up the wrong side of the channel at whatever speed you want.....
I think a video would be a good start for rental companies, even if its just 20 minutes, to let the riders know the basics.......before they pull out in front of a 50 mph boat......:mad:

[LHC30Victory]

To keep my post short - my eyes are still sore from reading all of Deb's post in the Sandbar :D - I agree with Boatcop. Licensing is different from holding a cert. I will go farther than the USPS course in that a BOAT HANDLING COURSE should be included. I completed the USPS course and learned only a little but the most value for what we all see/ experience/ need on the lake and river is how to handle the craft. It is kinda like Boatcop said:
"Of the hundreds of students I've taught, not one has gone away without learning something new, and/or finding out they've been doing things wrong. Some of these have several decades of boating experience."
Size of the craft then would be mitigated, IMHO.

[68campbell]

My Opinion: Anything that is not mandatory will not work. Jerks and morons don't care and/or don't think they are the problem and therefore won't take the class. Also, in regards to PWC's how many of us have ridden a buddies PWC. Now think about how many "non-boaters" have been to the river and done the exact same thing. I admit I am guilty of riding stupid even though I know how to boat safe and have been doing so for 30+ years.
I have taken the coast guard classes and would have no problem with a license or a certificate.

[sorry dog]

Come and listen to me ramble on for 8 hours, and I guarantee that you'll walk away a better boater.
Come and ride with me for an hour and I guarantee that you'll walk away...happy I don't live in Arizona :D
In Bama we have had licenses for a few years now. I'm not sure what's it's done for accidents or revenues but it wasn't that big of deal, but I did have to study the book for an hour or two to make sure I passed. There is an exception for people who rent- they can still drive on a temp basis.
Hey Tom - I hear Budda thinks it should be .12 - Would .11 be a fair compromise?