Jet pros, why did this happen?

[Danhercules]

My boat sunk today. After getiin it up, I found out why.
The inspection cover on the pump broke. One of the ears that bolts hold down, busted. She went down in 10 seconds it seems like.
Has any one ever seen this?
BBF, 500HP, on berk with a B. No loader, no shoe, no add ons on the pump, just some bowl work and "reworked Impeller"

[Hotcrusader76]

WTF!!!!:eek: :eek: :eek!: :eek!:
Did ya tighten them down too much? I think it was the kick ass Ford you had mounted in that boat that twisted her silly on ya:D
Sorry to here that Dan:( ....Keep us posted on what ya find..
~Ty

[LVjetboy]

I'm no jet pro so don't take my advice too serious. But as I've posted before, epoxy that sucker down...only way to be sure. How often do you use it to clear ski ropes etc. when it's on the inside or half-in half-out and you can't pop it and float? If on the inside and cover or flange design's that sensitive to bolt torque or o-ring alignment why bother with convenience of clearing a rope or debris? I say epoxy that sucker down and be done with it. Or not and leak the seal or maybe sink.
jer

[victorfb]

did you happen to save the broken peices? if so, look to see if you can tell if the crack is new or possibly had been cracking for a while. the change in color will be a good indication. im with LVjetboy on this one, secure it better with either epoxy, or some other type of sytem. im not sure how common this is, but i am now thinking of a strap(metal) or something that will help hold it in place even if it want to crack or break. that really sucks you actually sank the boat, but it sounds like you are ok and thats the most important thing. drying out the motor and all is no big deal, and a new cover is not that expensive. i would like to hear from some of the more knowlegeable poeple on this to see how common it is and what fixes are available. in the meantime ill be working on some sort of design im sure.

[78Southwind]

I have owned my Southwind for 15 years and have never had any problems or heard of such a problem. I have only had to clear a rope once when I let a friend pull me skiing. That’s F@#$ %^ UP Dan. I am going to check mine before the next trip.

[LakesOnly]

I was there helping him with a little "test and tune" by way of a timing light, plug readings, tach and GPS unit.
At 5500 rpm & 70+ mph, we both heard something that didn't sound right. I looked over at the engine and water was spraying up at me. Although I didn't know it yet, there was actually the aforementioned component failure: the access hole cover (a cast aluminum cover) on the top of the pump intake broke at one of the mounting ears and was wedged half-out on the intake's access hole, releasing water into the boat. I thought we blew a cooling hose, and yelled, "Water! Hit the bilge pump!"
Upon hearing this, Dan instinctively lifted off-throttle. At 70 mph, the sudden drop in impeller speed caused the pump intake pressure to skyrocket and the access hole cover blew further off and the boat instantaneously filled with water in just ten seconds and sank as we were scurrying towards shore trying to beach the boat. The water was coming in so fast that I wondered if we cracked a hull at speed (water was a little rough today).
We were 75 feet from shore in a shallow area and when the stern of the boat disappeared, fortunately the pump touched the bottom of the lake and the bow stayed propped up above the water, thanks to the trapped air in the bow. Another boater helped us to drag the boat closed enough to shore where a tractor completed the pull to shore...boat dragging underwater.
I bailed for about 25 minutes with a 5-gallon bucket before I began to put a dent in the waterline. The fact that I was reducing the amount if water in the boat was a good sign. Much later, as the boat began to rise, I heard the trickle of water in the stern...and found the broken piece of cast aluminum.
Once again, a component failure from a single solid piece of material. One can never be too careful. From now on, there will be a safety inspection of my boats anytime they will be put in the water, whether for race or pleasure.
A few words about Dan: The trooper, DanHercules, would not leave his boat's side. He tried for all it was worth to beach the boat before it sank. Then, as it sat there submerged, Dan refused to budge...like the captain of a ship, he stayed with the boat...treading water and not giving up as he dictated to another boat operator exactly how they were going to salvage his baby. That, my friends, is a man and his boat. Frankly, I stood there watching, mezmerized, then felt like a fool for standing ashore.
Paul
p.s.: The good news: we eventually got the boat out of the water/not at the bottom of the lake...10:1 odds. Boat is on the trailer and home. Motor cranks (we pulled the plugs and blew out the water, etc.), most of the electrical works. only time will tell...alll hope is not lost dan; you handled yourself well today and if this is carried over to the boat, then she shall run again.

[Hotcrusader76]

Good point to safety Paul. Excellent story as well.
I've been in a sinking boat as well when the exhaust log hoses blew off the transom due to an exhaust fire. Don't ask because I don't know why...it wasn't my boat....I was just an innocent on looker:D
Nonetheless it too sank only inches away from the shore/ramp. It does really pant the grim reality of dangers presented to us in this high speed sport.
Thank god you both are safe though...and you both know how to swim:D
~Ty

[Petrofied]

DAN, Sorry to hear the news, We have lost a couple over the years. It's always stupid shit! What are your plans to salvage? Complete tear down or flush and run. I'm gonna be in norco this week @ Tom Papps let me know if you need anything.
MR.P. :frown:

[Rampager]

Glad to hear you're ok. I sank last year too, I know what its like. You're not really worried about injury but its a very shocking thing to go through none the less. I don't think I will ever forget looking back at my 460 running with the balancer/alt fully submerged!
One tip if you're running an MSD box: drill out the rivits and dry it out inside asap. That was the only casualty from when I sank(well save the 24" hole in the hull) The 6AL would fire the boat up but it would not rev at all, the ignition doesn't seem to advance past idle. I have not yet sent it to MSD. Incidentally its interesting to note they said if it can be fixed the max charge is $55, min charge $19 so I will send it off soon since thats way cheaper than a new box.
Cheers

[JetBoatRich]

Sucks to hear this kind of news:mad: but I am glad to read everyone one is ok. This is probably a fear for a lot of us when in the middle of the lake making passes
Good luck on the repairs, keep us informened of progress.

[UBFJ #454]

How old is the pump's suction piece ... Metal Fatique?
Is the thickness of the wall of the cleanout throat the same all the way around or thinner near the broken off ear ... Core Shift during casting?
Or a Combination of the two???

[roostwear]

I feel for you. I can only imagine what it feels like to see her bow up and there's little you can do.
I would tend to think there was previous damage from that wingnut being overtightened/cocked, etc. Your intake pressure shouldn't have been that high... even if it was 60psi, that's nothing structurally speaking. When was the last time you had the hand hole off?
I agree, after you fix it, epoxy the cover on.
Hope you get back on the water quick.

[MikeF]

That sucks!!! :eek:
Wsuwrhr now see's a market for "BILLET" hand hole covers. :p
Maybe.....add some type of support across the top of the next cover to better hold it in place, along w/ the epoxying it to the suction housing?!
Where did it sink and did you have any problems getting it out?

[XClutchboy725]

Holy Crap Dan! :eek: :confused:

[Danhercules]

Thanks for the support guys.
Lakes Only is a lot of help gettin all the water out.
It was freaky and sad to see just the tip of the boat out of the water. When the other boat was pulling it, before it started to come up, she went all the way down under water, could not see anything. "Please dont let the rope break!!!"
Anyway, I have never taken the cover off. I just had the pump rebuilt, it was off then, but other than that, who knows. It was probally the original part, so it could have been on and off 100 times, or never.
We left it in the 5 gallon bucket that we used for baling, I will try to get it back. It broke right where the metal gets thin. I cannot belive that broke.:frown:
I do have insurance if I need to use it, I am just gonna flush her out and hope all is ok. I hope I can make it on the water soon. I had a trip planned for Blythe this weekend, now, we are goin with no boat. :frown:
Tell ya what though, before all this happend, she was runnin great, I was even scared of her a bit. I am new to this speed on the water thing, and 70 is EFFIN FAST, I dont care what anyone says!!!

[berk]

well i sure am glad i have my cover outside my boat! is a wonder they arent all outside hearing this! heres a stipid ?: if the hole is designed to clean out a ski rope or whatever then what good is it if the boat sinks in 10 seconds with it off? does this mean you have 6-7 seconds to clear the rope and get the cover back on while a million gallons of river muck enter at the rear? WTF? maybe this is why many river racer weld the cover closed perm. also in my experience with epoxy it would give you about 2% more strength thatn the origional, i mean if you got the pressure to blow out a seal or bust the damn aluminum then epoxy aint gunna do shit. weld it or set back your pump.

[nielly]

Sorry to hear that, I am glad it didn't happen with your family on board.

[RobR.]

Not that it matters but where did this happen? Having a tractor on the beach to pull the boat out made me wonder. I hope everything works out and you are back on the water real soon.

[Lawler]

This is an exact example why I would like to have insurance on my boat. Anyone have any information for me? Who will cover a high performance boat? I have been looking on the internet with very little success. I know some lakes are requiring at least $300k liability insurance. Any suggestions?

[sanger mike]

dan and paul, im sorry that this happened. it sucks:frown: but im sure glad to here you are both safe :D and still insane:D :D :D this could be a big lesson for all of us. when i bought the sanger it had a metal bracket over the hand hole cover to hold it down. and i looked at it like WTF is this, but maybe it's not a bad idea.:eek:

[roostwear]

Not to blow your buzz, but if that "bracket" is the one held down by two 1/4 turn fasteners, it's just the wrench for the hand hole retaining nuts. If it really is a bracket, it's a good idea. Got a picture?

[LakesOnly]

This morning when I awoke, two memories kept playing in my head over and over that I think everyone will appreciate:
1) With my own eyes, I watched that boat disappear underwater. In an instant, it was gone, man. And so it was so strange to have that feeling...that memory in my head...and yet look over my shoulder moments later from the cab of the pick-up and see the boat on the trailer! That feeling was great, at least.
2) Dan staying by his boat's side. Now, I hope everyone can understand that what I'm about to describe here is my interpretation of a good thing: As I stood from the shore and watched in horror the tradgedy of Dan's boat disappearing underwater, the subsequent "never-say-die" commitment of Dan treading water in an oil slick, gathering floating debris and still holding the boat's ignition key, all the while directing a nearby boat that was assisting him...I mean that kind of gung-ho all-out dedication for his boat...I think it might have been the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
LO
p.s.: I understand Roy Miersch makes billet clean-out hole covers.

[HotHallet]

Dan sorry to hear that man. Hope you are back on the water soon. Let me know if you need any help!

[victorfb]

lakesonly. what you witnessed is more than just dans dedication to HIS boat. he would have done the same thing if it were anyone elses boat aswell. though the fear of having to tell his wife and losing personal belongings wouldnt have been there, but thats not the point. we all have that fear of seeing our boats under water, and there is no way to know how we are going to react untill the unfortunate deal happens. im sure the level of adrenelin was much higher since it was infact his own boat, and i can only imagine all the thoughts going through his head at the moment, but the determination of saving it and the dedication of imediate salvage is just something thats in his blood. then again, there was probably a full can of coors light in the boat, and we all know dan wont allow that to go to waste. :D (had to put some funnin in there dan):p

[Liberator TJ1984]

I have seen where one was drilled thru and had holes tapped into the housing { 1/4" } held down by 6 allen head bolts along with the wing nuts ??? maybe that would work for you too ???

[bighead]

I am sorry tohear about your incident on the water but you are a inspiration in the way you stayed with her and the subsequent recovery. It is a very good lesson for all learn from, stay calm and think fast. Best of luck on a speedy return to the water.

[jerry billet]

I've broken two covers. Mostly from excessive intake pressure. Doesn't help if you fly it. when sets down the pressure spikes real hard. Of course,flying the boat at nearly 100 mph is another story. Because it is set back, and 3/4 out of the hull, the hull and alum cover held in place. just some leaking. Machined the top of the cover flat, made a matching piece and drilled the whole thing into the bowl with (8) 1/4" bolts. No problems since. Now I've added a pop-off.
Jerry

[MudPumper]

Originally posted by victorfb
then again, there was probably a full can of coors light in the boat, and we all know dan wont allow that to go to waste. :D (had to put some funnin in there dan):p
I just had this vision of Dan diving down, Baywatch style and coming up with a Can of CoorsLight in his hand and a huge grin of victory on his face. :D But in all reality, first off, glad nobody got hurt. Secondly sorry to hear about the boat going down, luckily you were able to salvage it. Could have been in deep water and the whole thing would have been lost. Get to work, get that thing back on the water soon!!!! ;)

[HotRod Sprint]

Originally posted by Lawler
This is an exact example why I would like to have insurance on my boat. Anyone have any information for me? Who will cover a high performance boat? I have been looking on the internet with very little success. I know some lakes are requiring at least $300k liability insurance. Any suggestions?
I have mine insured through American Family. They are really good to work with. For an extra like 30.00 bucks a year I went with 500,000.00 liability. With some of the boats on Lake Pleasant that might just cover me. ;)
Dan, really sorry to hear about your mishap. As lots of others have said, the important thing is every one came out ok.
Rod

[ttmott]

I had this happen, almost. Noticed the cover spraying everywhere and over 6-inches of water in the aft. My cover only warped up in the middle but leaked profusly running or stopping; It could just as easily have broken. Come to find out the tie-down bolts were sliding to the outer edges of the ears on the cover when the pressure was up in the bowl allowing the cover to blow the o-ring out and warp up in the middle. The original installation had a tie bar across the two tie down bolts to hold the pivioting bolts in; should have been on mine.
I installed a billet cover and now the bolts come up through holes in the cover rather than slots.
My lesson was not as costly.

[LakesOnly]

[Danhercules]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
As I stood from the shore and watched in horror the tradgedy of Dan's boat disappearing underwater, the subsequent "never-say-die" commitment of Dan treading water in an oil slick, gathering floating debris and still holding the boat's ignition key, all the while directing a nearby boat that was assisting him...I mean that kind of gung-ho all-out dedication for his boat...I think it might have been the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.
LO
Might have been the most beautiful thing you have ever seen?
Are you sure your not refurring to me with no shirt on covered in motor oil??
Now I know how those poor seagulls feel when Exxon lets a drunk drive a oil tanker!!!

[Rexone]

Well I see down the line this has turned into another typical name calling jackass thread so I'm gone.... no time or patience for it any longer.

[Oldsquirt]

Originally posted by Rexone
It should only leak when under pressure. It's designed to be removed for inspection with the boat at rest where the water level should remain inside the pump. Not designed to be removed when underway.
From the personal experience of a friend back in the late 70's, the only time it is truly safe to remove that cover is when the boat is on the trailer. He had his boat tied up to the shore when he attempted to pull the cover. Quite a bit of water got in before he could reseal it.

[LVjetboy]

"also in my experience with epoxy it would give you about 2% more strength thatn the origional, i mean if you got the pressure to blow out a seal or bust the damn aluminum then epoxy aint gunna do shit."
What exactly was that experience? Did you measure rupture stress on the hand hole cover with and without epoxy fill and compare? Did you just epoxy the flange or did you test with epoxy filling between the plug face and intake wall? Or is that 2% based on some test or WAG that has nothing to do with epoxy filling a hand hole cover...some mfg specs? Did you test to 100 mph? Just curious.
Come to think of it, has anyone epoxy filled a handhole cover and had it fail?
"...weld it or set back your pump."
My pump is setback and the hand hole's still inside. But I have a PlaceCraft so I guess your advice doesn't apply.
If you're throwin' out numbers berk be ready to back them up.
jer

[calperf19]

You remember when we had those races in your backyard? out past the bbQ durring the flood you left a stake out there and you clipped it!!!!!! Hope Everything is OK BK

[berk]

hey asshole i am not ready to start another bull S war with anyone but i am speaking from some base of knowledge ok? aluminum is hard to get anything to stick to and epoxy isnt really a very good adhesive it turns out. too brittle. its a ghetto solution to what welders were designed to do. epoxy is for glass layup period. has no business being near aluminum or wood. if you can sit there and think after reading these people tell stories of warped blown up broken castings and think some brittle plastic glue is going to be a real fix then go for it! if you want to spout off then well you did. maybe your mouth had a cover on it at one point too. no i never went even close to 100 and thats why my cover is OK. 2% was a figure i was guesstimatingm + or - 53% OK? i said about.
ps if your cover is inside then i guess your pump ISNT set back either.

[LVjetboy]

"ps if your cover is inside then i guess your pump ISNT set back either."
Would anyone here care to enlighten berk? Maybe not worth the time...
"...no i never went even close to 100 and thats why my cover is OK. 2% was a figure i was guesstimatingm + or - 53% OK?"
It was pretty obvious your 2% was bogus. Just figured I call it out. I suggest not stating a number if it's a total shot in the dark otherwise you loose credibility. Yes, certain epoxies do stick to aluminum...some quite well. Especially if the failure mechanism is shear along the entire length of the plug. And even with intakes loading at 100 mph.
jer

[ShowDown]

berk originally posted...
"ps if your cover is inside then i guess your pump ISNT set back either."
LVjetboy originally posted...
My pump is setback and the hand hole's still inside. But I have a PlaceCraft so I guess your advice doesn't apply.
Doesn't a Placecraft have a setback pod on it like a Southwind TD thus making it almost impossible to set the pump back far enough for the clean out to be outside the boat???

[LVjetboy]

Older PlaceCrafts have a pod that makes the hand hole unlikely to completely clear the pod with normal setback. Also transom adaptor plays a role. My pump's setback 3.25 inches (you can count on that number) and the hand hole's entirely inside the boat.
jer

[Rampager]

I'm not much into pissing contests either but since when is epoxy not a good adhesive? wtf?
Its actually a phenomonal adhesive for wood and is often stronger than the wood itself. I'm also quite sure its used extensively in aircraft construction these days, but I guess they aren't very concerned with quality.... :rolleyes:
Properly prepare 2 hunks of aluminum and epoxy them together, you will be shocked how hard it is to get them apart.
Again glad to hear this didn't turn out too bad and thanks for posting, it has obviously served as a warning for many of us to keep an eye on this part of the pump
Cheers

[Wally_Gator]

Dan,
I am sorry to hear about your boat.
I don't think we ever heard where you were when this happened?
How goes the drying process?
Any Idea on when you will be back on the water (not in)?

[Danhercules]

COMMON GUYS!!!!!!!!! I JUST SUNK MY BOAT!!!!!!!!!!!
I need help here. I am reading all this info and taking it in. I am trying to make light of the situation and cracking a joke, but dont run off and start smacking off in my thread!!!!! I would love to hear from Jack, Duane, and others. No one is gonna be reading anymore!!!!!

[Danhercules]

Originally posted by Wally_Gator
Dan,
I am sorry to hear about your boat.
I don't think we ever heard where you were when this happened?
How goes the drying process?
Any Idea on when you will be back on the water (not in)?
On the water, not in, LOL Thats funny!!
It happend at the green so cal lake.
So far so good. I will know more tonight. Hopefully I can get her to fire tonight or in the morn. My ingitions switch is shorting out, I think its still full of water, other than that, I got spark, and everything seems to be OK. Time will tell.

[berk]

dude are you on the rag? i dont even know why i try. i think anyone with a brain would know what i was talking about but i am glad i could clear it up for you LV. rampager your statement about epoxy being stronger than wood is exactly why it shoudnt be used on wood! i can go into much deeper discussion on this but i dont think its really worth the time and this guy doesnt care anyway. airplanes are designed by engineers not hacks in thegarage with a tube of jb weld. are you actually arguing against welding in favor of smagging epoxy in there? wow. i am not saying epoxy isnt glue, it is. but in recent years some other glues have come around which are freakishly strong and toxic and are much better for a certain application like you are suggesting. oh as far as suggestions go LVjetboy, you can shove yours up your or your boyfriends ass. for real. i am tryin to help and you are being a dick. :yuk:

[Rampager]

Well Berk I don't know you nor do you know me however I can say from quite a bit of hands on experience that if you don't think epoxy bonds wood together than you know something I don't.
I am probably a bit rare on the board in that I run a WOOD jetboat regularly and yes you guessed it it was built using EPOXY. It seems to handle regular 70 mph beatings quite nicely and in fact the times I have damaged the hull and broken and or delaminated things guess what? The epoxy bond did not fail!
When I have had sections of the bottom delaminate the inner laminations of the marine ply gave way and the outer layer of glass/epoxy stayed very intact and bonded to the outer ply of veneer.
Further when I origionally made the scarf joints to make the sides of the boat in one long sheet I played around with numerous scraps to see just how good that type of joint was. I will tell you now that when the sheet yeilded it snapped away from the joint! From that I conclude the joint was stronger than the plywood itself
Am I saying you can just slather JB weld all over and expect it to help? Of course not but lets face it you can't just throw a wire feel aluminum weld on there if you have no clue how to weld or prep the surface either.
I just don't agree with throwing out a blanket statement that "epoxy doesn't bond well".
When my jetboat falls apart at the seams I may buy that but untill then I'm conviced epoxy can be and is a VERY good adhesive. Nothing works very well if not used the way it was designed and that includes proper preparation and following the manufacturers directions. If it works for the pro's it CAN work for joe blow if he does things correctly.
I'll go one step further to say that in fact epoxy is generally ONLY used as a bonding agent because as you said it is too brittle to be used to make stand alone fibreglass structures. Save for formula one and other complex manufactured products there are not many glass stuctures that use epoxy as the resin.
I'm not gonna go on about polyester resin but I have alot of first hand knowledge of epoxies
Im done now, sorry Dan
Cheers

[LVjetboy]

"are you actually arguing against welding in favor of smagging epoxy in there? wow"
Nope. I think either will work if done well but I wouldn't throw out a percent or claim an epoxied hand hole is just a backyard hack unless I had a clue. My guess is it'd take a lot of force to shear the plug loose with epoxy filling the gap between the plug and the hand hole wall.
Tensile lap shear strength of jb weld is 1040 psi, so for a plug epoxied surface area of 32 sqin that's 33,280 lbs of force to fail. Which means nearly 2,000 psi of intake pressure on the plug if the plugs exposed (intake wall) area is 16.8 sqin. Not accounting for epoxy on the flange. How that compares to the failure strength of a non-epoxied cover with two bolts not sure. But I'd say it's a significant improvement. From experience? I've run mine on the lake for over ten years with an epoxied hand hole at speeds higher than 70 mph, no cracks or sign of failure.
Another benefit of an epoxied hand hole is no more worries about a poor seal sucking air. And you can blend the inside wall for smoother intake flow.
Sounds like you're the one on the rag with the name calling...
"hey asshole i am not ready to start another bull S war with anyone but i am speaking from some base of knowledge ok?"
If you post from some "base of knowledge" then use that knowledge to back up what you say or explain why you know my pump is not setback or why you know an epoxied plug is only 2% stronger than a non-epoxied plug. Those your only two comments I questioned. Be ready to back up your statements or don't get your panties in a bunch if someone challenges.
jer

[berk]

well i think i have been backing it up and if you dont understand me its because i am not speaking in a five year olds vocabulary. please put the silly percent thing behind us ok? im really sorry i used such a confusing choice of words. let me ask this: whats the reason for not welding? any job shop would charge maybe 25$ to do it and it would be good. i have been using polyester and epoxy in vaccum bagged carbon fiber and kevlar molds for 7 years. i have run chopper guns and hand layed up more resins than youre likely to imagine. i bond aluminum to these parts regularly and have seen the results of many failures. i would never use epoxy to bond aluminum simply because there are better choices! its like if i need an 1/8 hole in something, well i would use an 1/8 bit, not 1/2". sure 1/2" would work, but why do the wrong thing intensionally? this guy is asking people for opinions and i am giving mine, it doesnt make me an idiot. go ahead and defend your ghetto hack solution, or grow up and become LVjetman.
ps nice psi numbers, but the cap on a pump isnt in shear its tension dumbass.

[LVjetboy]

"ps nice psi numbers, but the cap on a pump isnt in shear its tension dumbass"
There you go with the name calling.
The fastener bolts on the cap are in tension. If you epoxied the flange alone, the epoxy on that joint would be in tension. But the strength I calculated with those psi numbers based on the failure mode for epoxy filling the gap between the plug and the hand hole wall. That would be shear not tension. The plug's like a cylinder with the bottom surface cut at an angle to follow the contour of the intake. Pressure on the plug tries to shear the epoxy filling the gap.
The difference between that and bolt tension failure or an epoxied flange is why I posted...
"Not accounting for epoxy on the flange. How that compares to the failure strength of a non-epoxied cover with two bolts not sure."
As for welding? Not a problem. If you feel the need...go for it. But to state that epoxy's just a ghetto fix and won't do sh*t, well, be ready for someone with a different view who can back it up. Without your petty name calling.
jer

[HammerDown]

Take the BS name calling and Drama somewhere else!

[flat broke]

Originally posted by berk
well i think i have been backing it up and if you dont understand me its because i am not speaking in a five year olds vocabulary. please put the silly percent thing behind us ok? im really sorry i used such a confusing choice of words. let me ask this: whats the reason for not welding? any job shop would charge maybe 25$ to do it and it would be good. i have been using polyester and epoxy in vaccum bagged carbon fiber and kevlar molds for 7 years. i have run chopper guns and hand layed up more resins than youre likely to imagine. i bond aluminum to these parts regularly and have seen the results of many failures. i would never use epoxy to bond aluminum simply because there are better choices! its like if i need an 1/8 hole in something, well i would use an 1/8 bit, not 1/2". sure 1/2" would work, but why do the wrong thing intensionally? this guy is asking people for opinions and i am giving mine, it doesnt make me an idiot. go ahead and defend your ghetto hack solution, or grow up and become LVjetman.
ps nice psi numbers, but the cap on a pump isnt in shear its tension dumbass.
you know what?... you still haven't backed up your claims / assault on LV's suggestion with any factual data other than a resume of being skilled in the use of composite materials and some vague references to failed bonds between composites and aluminum.
LV proposed an alternative, and you jumped all up in his sh*t deeper than a proctologist doing a throat exam the hard way. Plenty of jets run stong numbers and relatively high intake pressures with just the stock hand hole cover and upgraded bolts, and never see a failure. So are those people doing the wrong thing as well? The epoxy would only aid in such an effort and afford an extra measure of assurance when properly applied.
And speaking of your example of hole sizes. If the epoxy method provideds enough strength for the application in question, why would we then drill your proverbial 1/2" hole by opting to weld instead? Especially since welding on a cast aluminum part can open a whole new can of worms.
You're entitled to your opinion, and its just that an opinion. But the second you start smacking someone elses, you'd better have a little proof in your puddin'
Chris

[roostwear]

Don't go and tell him how his INTAKE is held in!

[LVjetboy]

Dan, hope all goes well. Just replying to berk...and keeping the thread on top.
If pro's have time to read this thread and have something to add they will. Or pm you. Hard to know why I doubt it happens often for the loading most jets see. Lake use can be harder than race in some ways.
Maybe someone in the past pinched the o-ring on one bolt side and cranked the bolt till the follower cracked? Maybe a casting flaw in the follower? Maybe the mating surface on the pump side follower's uneven. My thought, if the followers mate evenly there's no good reason for bending stress to exceed design unless a casting defect.
The bottom line to me: beef up the new plug with epoxy or weld if you choose. Either way will work. No more sinking.
I've cleared a ski rope and rock from my intake on the water...both while the boat was in the water...not using the hand hole of course. So I've never needed one for the 20 years I've jetted. Mead's deep so good luck to me if it sank.
jer