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dimarcobros
06-18-2004, 11:03 AM
My mom would like to buy my dad a surround sound system for Father's day. He likes Bose but that is pretty expensive. Anyone know of any hook ups or any good deals? Any information would also help.
Thanks,
DMB

Bre
06-18-2004, 11:05 AM
What a nice Father's Day present. All Andy got was a book from Costco on the history of Baseball parks:rolleyes: :D

Flyinbowtie
06-18-2004, 11:11 AM
There are a lot of folks out there that swear by Bose gear, and it performs well when powered up properly.
Ask around in your local area about a decent stereo shop, you don't have to buy the system in a box, and a good shop can stay within your budget and still give you decent sound.
If your dad is a music nut, I would suggest spending the majority of the bucks on the reciever and the front speakers, and go the econo route on the the center channel and surrounds. They can be upgraded as he builds the system.
Personally, I like Klipsch speakers, but they ain't cheap,either.:)

dimarcobros
06-18-2004, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Bre
What a nice Father's Day present. All Andy got was a book from Costco on the history of Baseball parks:rolleyes: :D
They are remodeling the house right now so it makes sense since he has spent a small fortune on the kitchen, living, room and two bathroooms alreadys.
DMB

Trash
06-18-2004, 11:34 AM
For the money you spend on Bose (aka Buy Other Sound Equipment), you could get a LOT better system. I would highly recommend avoiding Bose.
To get a true surround system you can go one of two ways, either the HT (Home Theater) in a box package or audition speakers, DVD players, A/V receivers or Pre/pros and amps. The latter will yield better results, but also takes more time, research and patience.
What size room are you talking about? Are small speakers a priority or is sound a priority? What is the budget?
What size TV? Will this be primarily for music or movie or both?
If your budget is less than $1000 you're pretty much stuck with a HT in a box solution. Sony, Yamaha, Onkyo etc. all make these systems. Although not ideal, they are likely the most affordable.
The next step would be a A/V receiver, DVD player and speakers. Yamaha, NAD, and Pioneer Elite etc. make some fairly nice A/V receivers with the necessary tools (i.e. Dolby Digital 5.1 and DTS decoders) to play DVD movies as intended. These receivers go from $500-600 to $2000 plus (high end Elite and Yamaha gear).
Speakers are subjective. Buy what sounds good to YOU. Good Guys and Tweeter have fair selection of entry level speakers to choose from. You can start there.
Moving up the line in speakers you'll need to venture to dedicated high-end stores. I must warn you that once you listen to a high-end speaker, or even a mid-fi speaker, you will not want to go back. I've found Paradigm speakers to be a fairly good value and would recommend taking a look at them. They have a broad line varying from relatively inexpensive ($300-500) to nearly esoteric level speakers in the Signature line (approaching $8000). There are many, many, many other brands, and recommend a little research to see what suits you.
www.avsforum.com and www.htspot.com are two recommend forums for finding a wealth of information.
I've barely scratched the surface, but hope this helps.

Slick
06-18-2004, 11:34 AM
Get ahold of Roz. My buddy bought some little Mirage speakers from him that absolutely rock for the size and cost. He can also hook you up on the reciever and subwoorfer.

Scream
06-18-2004, 11:39 AM
Well, I'll stick up for BOSE. I bought the Acustamass system w/ powered sub a few years ago. Installed easily (sent Debbolas in the attic to run wire) and haven't had a single problem with it yet, except for it being too loud sometimes. LOL
Bose makes great equipment. IMHO.
Scream <---cause the tv's too loud..

Debbolas
06-18-2004, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by Scream
Well, I'll stick up for BOSE. I bought the Acustamass system w/ powered sub a few years ago. Installed easily (sent Debbolas in the attic to run wire) and haven't had a single problem with it yet, except for it being too loud sometimes. LOL
Bose makes great equipment. IMHO.
Scream <---cause the tv's too loud..
It was scary, there was a thunderstorm and it was raining and I'm walking around in the attic full of insulation. (NOT FUN)
Screams favorite part of ANY movie is when the Dolby Surround Sound Noise comes on. He turns it way up loud!;)

ROZ
06-18-2004, 12:20 PM
Originally posted by Scream
Well, I'll stick up for BOSE. I bought the Acustamass system w/ powered sub a few years ago. Installed easily (sent Debbolas in the attic to run wire) and haven't had a single problem with it yet, except for it being too loud sometimes. LOL
Bose makes great equipment. IMHO.
Scream <---cause the tv's too loud.. I believe they definitely have a market niche and great advertising. The saying use to be "no highs no lows, it must be Bose". Not so much anymore. They have some really good stuff on the pipeline, or atleast that's what my bro(tech sales EE who sometimes works with Bose engineers) tells me...
Dimarco, Bose has factory stores that have pretty good prices, and sometimes even better on B-stock.
Trash DOES have very valid points, though.
I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. I sold my Klipsch towers to RD in order to get rid of "furniture" and I'm going the in ceiling route...
What's up Slickmiester!!! Send me a couple cards and info to hand out to the 2 supply yards I deal with :) Hope all is good!!!
One more thing... Buy what you need. Example is not buying a 9channel receiver if you only plan to run 5 speakers in your room. You could easily get decent small system - cables for close to 1k

AquaBoogie
06-18-2004, 12:27 PM
Screams favorite part of ANY movie is when the Dolby Surround Sound Noise comes on. He turns it way up loud
I do the same thing. My son loves it too.

Debbolas
06-18-2004, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by AquaBoogie
Screams favorite part of ANY movie is when the Dolby Surround Sound Noise comes on. He turns it way up loud
I do the same thing. My son loves it too.
Did you see, in the "Finding Nemo" DVD, they plug that moo'ing cow can into the dolby thing and a whole herd of cattle come stampeeding through.....LOL:D

ROZ
06-18-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by HUFFPOWER
i believe the latest and greatest is 7 to 1, has THX......
RXZ9 by Yamaha.. 9 screamin channels, Right HDD ? :cool::cool::cool:
Originally posted by HUFFPOWER
its all about the $$ Unfortunately, your right :D

ROZ
06-18-2004, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Debbolas
Did you see, in the "Finding Nemo" DVD, they plug that moo'ing cow can into the dolby thing and a whole herd of cattle come stampeeding through.....LOL:D My daughter loves that too!! :)

AquaBoogie
06-18-2004, 12:37 PM
Originally posted by Debbolas
Did you see, in the "Finding Nemo" DVD, they plug that moo'ing cow can into the dolby thing and a whole herd of cattle come stampeeding through.....LOL:D
I haven't been able to sit down and watch that movie yet. My kids always grab it and watch it in the car. I'll have to sit down and watch it after I finish remodelling my family room. I had to take down the surround speakers to put up the crown molding.

Debbolas
06-18-2004, 12:42 PM
It's a great movie! ( I love it when Dorey speaks whale) and the opening "moo" thing is great!
:D

Cheap Thrills
06-18-2004, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by HUFFPOWER
the reciever IS the most important component in a "true" surround system. i believe the latest and greatest is 7 to 1, has THX, and other stuff, high end yamaha, sony, pioneer elite is what i'd choose, have had bose, they sound great, but there is better, its all about the $$
thats a common misconception. in fact the MOST important in ANY sound system is the speakers.
If your speakers cant play it you cant hear it !
C.T. :wink:

AquaBoogie
06-18-2004, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Cheap Thrills
thats a common misconception. in fact the MOST important in ANY sound system is the speakers.
If your speakers cant play it you cant hear it !
C.T. :wink:
What will the speakers play if there isn't anything sending it a signal? The speakers are only as good as the signal they are receiving.

rivercrazy
06-18-2004, 12:47 PM
Gotsta agree with CT on this one (i.e. speakers are the most important piece). All that 7 and 9 channel stuff is nice, but try to find DVD's recorded in 9 channels. Its marketing add on's that lead to a higher sales price.:D
A clean watt is a clean watt is a clean watt....:D

Cheap Thrills
06-18-2004, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by AquaBoogie
What will the speakers play if there isn't anything sending it a signal? The speakers are only as good as the signal they are receiving.
thats one way to look at it . but your looking at it wrong .
most all amplifiers will produce a signal from 20Hz ~20Kz (the extent of human hearing)
say you purchased a $1,000.00 amp with all the bells and whistles and hooked it up to a couple of crappy speakers all youre going to get out of that beautiful new amp is crappy sound.
you can take a set of good speakers and make a shit amp sound good !
C.T. :wink:

ROZ
06-18-2004, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Cheap Thrills
you can take a set of good speakers and make a shit amp sound good !
C.T. :wink: Yes. A killer set of speakers can also show the inadquacies in your system, namely your source....

NoCal NoBoat
06-18-2004, 01:45 PM
DMB -
At the risk of getting flamed by the guys here that know there stuff, I took the "single dad con grande child support" approach and went with Cambridge Soundworks. Not the biggest or the best, but it sounds good to me in my condo-sized living room.
They will piss off the neighbors if I crank it during "Tora, Tora, Tora"

dimarcobros
06-18-2004, 02:13 PM
Thanks for all the input guys. The system will be going in our living room and he wants the speakers in the ceiling. The room is about 18' x 30' or about 500 sq feet. (give or take) I am not sure if that changes anything. I know nothing about this stuff but how to turn on the tv and change the channel.
DMB

AquaBoogie
06-18-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
Yes. A killer set of speakers can also show the inadquacies in your system, namely your source....
Ditto.

hot_diggity_dog
06-18-2004, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by ROZ
One more thing... Buy what you need. Example is not buying a 9channel receiver if you only plan to run 5 speakers in your room.
Hey Roz do they even have an 9-Channel Reciever??? :rolleyes:
Come on I thought 6 or 7 channels was out of control.:p :p
HDD:cool:

rivercrazy
06-18-2004, 03:33 PM
The fact of the matter is that assuming you have a good quality AV receiver (i.e. Denon, Sony ES, Harman Kardon, etc), your not going to hear the difference in sound quality. A clean watt is a clean watt period! Now if your talking about REALLY high end seperates from some of the finest manufacturers out there, you might hear a very small difference. But its not significant.
Speakers is where its at baby! :D

Some Kind Of Monster
06-18-2004, 04:21 PM
I have a Theater Research 5.1 system pushed by a Technics DX930 receiver. My neighbors know when I have the tunes up. My theater system is only beaten by my full guitar stack.. The neighbors know when it's guitar time too.

goeasy8
06-18-2004, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by dimarcobros
My mom would like to buy my dad a surround sound system for Father's day. He likes Bose but that is pretty expensive. Anyone know of any hook ups or any good deals? Any information would also help.
Thanks,
DMB
I was really impressed with this sony system I saw. For the price I think its pretty dam good and it sounded excellent.
I hope this link works for you
SON http://www.circuitcity.com/detail.jsp?c=1&b=g&u=c&catoid=-10041&qp=0&oid=76610&m=0

Trash
06-19-2004, 10:40 AM
There were some good points made, but let's clarify a few things.
More channels is not better. THE DEFACTO STANDARD for creating DVD sound tracks is Dolby Digitial 5.1 or DTS (Digital Theater System) 5.1. There are a FEW Dolby Digital EX and DTS ES DVDs, which offer a matrixed 6th channel (rear mono pole or pair of rear speakers) and even fewer with discrete 6th channel. There are NO 7.1 channel DVDs in existence. The systems that are 7.1 (seven channels of amplification and speakers to include left front, right front, center, left surround, right surround, right rear, left rear and one sub) derive the rear information from the surround channel information. It is usually only beneficial IF you have a long viewing area. Even then it is not required. So in essence, a 7.1 system is creating sound that isn't there in the first place. I'm not sure why it's now the latest thing other than companies are able to sell more amps and we like to tweek systems. Yamaha systems are notorious for adding channels and extensive DSP libraries. In the end, you don't end up using them, and sonically they are various combinations of echo, reverb, time delay etc. which may not be true to the original source.
THX is NOT required, and in fact will add cost simply because of the licensing fee to attach the THX label to the receiver or pre/pro. It does add a few features, but in the few trials I've done to date I would not say it is a must have feature. If you're into tweaking then it might interest you. It's more important to have a system with good bass management and a flexible crossover to blend main speakers and subwoofer in my opinion.
Bose: Everyone tends to automatically assume they are the greatest. Ask yourself who says so? Most of the time its Bose touting that message or a friend of a friend who's an engineer within the company. Point being the source is usually biased. They do have one of the greatest marketed products, but it doesn't make it the best, or even better. Try to perform an A/B comparison against Bose and you will find it nearly impossible. Why? Most other systems sound better and Bose doesn't want you to find out. Thats why they have Bose stores with only Bose equipment (even the Bose at Circuit City are isolated). There are simply other products that sound much better for the same price or less. IF you listened to many different systems, and IF tiny tiny speakers appeal to you and IF Bose still sounds the best to YOUR ears, then by all means buy it. I think in most cases your ears and wallet will steer you elsewhere.
I recommend finding the speakers you like first, as others have said. A speaker will 'color' the sound more than any other piece of gear, with the possible exception of room acoustics.
You don't buy a powerful amp to play music louder!!! You have to double the power for every 3dB increase in volume!!! YOU DO buy a big amp for soundstage, dynamics and reserve for the transient passages that require it. A 200 watt (per channel) amp will only play 3 dB louder than a 100 watt amp. However, that 200 watt amp will have loads of reserve for the cymbal crashes, bass drum thump and other dynamics that occur during music, or more specifically the extremely dynamic tracks of a movie. You will find a more powerfull amp will allow minute details to be revealed that you've never heard before on music you've been listening to forever.
Since your room is fairly large (18 x 30) and you want in ceiling speakers you are tying your hands a little bit. There are some companies that make good in wall and ceiling speakers, but there are usually sonic tradeoffs.
Don't immediately rule out separates (i.e. a dedicated pre-amp/processor and separate amps). There are some good sytems out there for the same price as some A/V receivers.