Whipple warranty

[Conquest Deck]

Had whipple install supercharger on 496 mag 5/03 40hrs later motor locked up 10/03 whipple to busy to r/r motor have gt perf. remove engine,and whipple picks up engine from gt. 6mo. later engine complete. whipple invoces me for 9800.00 dollars. motor upgraded with forged internals larger 3.3 blower. original cast crank reused.cam and rockers upgraded.heads ported.seems a bit steep to me. looking for advice.

[HighRoller]

Did they give you an analysis of what went wrong, with evidence? If it burned a piston or melted a valve it was the blower's fault. You need to get full documntation from them during the tear down as well as invoices for he new parts. For that price they better have put a new blower on it!

[RACER52]

sounds like you got a better engine,
better internals, bigger 3.3 blower == after market custom engine for 9800.00. If the parts are good and the blower was bigger and new and this included labor maybe not so bad.
But what caused the original engine to lock up??
Racer

[Conquest Deck]

I think dustin said bad piston or possible rod failure not sure. just think 40hrs was a bit premature.If I had know going into this I would have left engine stock, and looked into a 502 based motor,with forged internals.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Well,
I was happy with the Whipple on my 496 MAG HO right up to the point that I sold it and built a Whippled 565.
Dustin and the whole group at Whipple are very "Stand-Up" and I trust what they say. I think most everyone here will agree that Whipple tries very hard to do the right thing, sometimes at there expense, but you can't please everyone all of the time.
I had 140 hours on my 496 when I sold it. It took some time to dial it in, but I was happy with the performance when I sold it.
I do know what you feel like......Once you leave stock, it's hard not to look back........
But 600+HP feels nice.....huh.......
I don't know both sides of the story, but if Dustin & Art were involved, you didn't get ripped off......
Welcome to performance boating.
CJG
:cool:

[Conquest Deck]

I purchased a 540 single whipple from gt perf because of the time frame and I had a powell trip planned.My problem is with the fact that the motor lasted 40 hrs under what I would consider moderate use. I will say this The motor did run Great until it seized up, just wish it would have lasted longer its difficult to justify the expense.bang for the buck.

[Whipple Charged]

That was actually a spun main bearing. Chances of that having to do with the supercharger is pretty slim. There were no signs of knock. I do not think this is a common problem, it's the first 496 bearing that I've seen go bad. The minute the pan was dropped, you couldn't believe the smell.
Time was not are fault, you nor I could get a new crankshaft for the motor. Since GM stopped mfg'ing them and Crower wanted 6 months, $2000 we finally decided to go with the stock crank. GM found the cast crank to be better than the forged crankshaft and thats why they stopped production.
9800 is a great price for the amount of labor. 496's are really hard to work on, it's not like a regular carb motor that you can R&R in a few hours. The motor had to be lined bored, we then bored it .030" over for the custom JE pistons with 8.3:1 compression. Motor has good wrist pins, rings, etc. Crank was machined for clevite bearings and manley h beam rods. Can't forget all the ARP head studs and rod bolts, cometic head gaskets and all the other little stuff that was upgraded. Heads were heavily ported (cast iron, not real fun), inconel exhaust valves, SS intakes, new valve springs for the big camshaft, crane gold rockers, push rods and lifters. Also has a custom ground Crane cam which took some time to get since it's a new motor. It even needed valve cover spacers to clear the rockers. We then upgraded for free to the 3300 blower, new throttle body, machined the IC housing to fit, made new linkage for the longer supercharger, machined the front plate to accept the 3300. We reassembled the engine, closed cooling, wiring, oiling, etc which takes a long time, reinstalled the supercharger kit. We then dyno'd the engine and built a custom calibration (only we can do) which took a couple of days. The amount of time it took to long block the motor was basic, but to reassemble everything else, including a SC install, thats a lot of work. Just look at the motor.
Motor makes a conservative 760hp, 780 torque. This is equal to most other 800-850hp motors. The motor will need a large oil cooler, electric fuel pump and that should be about it.
Thanks,
Dustin

[DetroitJim]

Well, now that the other side of the tale is revealed, I'd say that was a hell of a deal. Tyler Crockett out this way wouldn't do it for that price, no way.
DJ

[HP350SC]

I would agree that was a good deal. I have seen shops charge $9000 to add a supercharger to a small block! That sounds like a properly prepped 496 now, and should last a good while.
Regarding the blower (Whipple or otherwise) causing the motor to blow is a little misleading. As we all know, more often than not it's the fuel delivery, timing, cooling system, etc. that is the root cause. Exception of course would be if the blower actually came apart and motor ingested fragments.

[Conquest Deck]

Mercury must be building real p.o.s. if all they build into their motors is 120hrs of life expectancy. All I'm saying is that these cast crank, hyperutectic piston, non inconel valve motors may last while in stock applications. But, in a super-charged enviroment they are ify at best . As far as a "free" 3300 blower, that's assuming you return the original 496 blower to me. By the way, I would deal with whipple over the phone or by e-mail. But, as everyone knows, you are very busy and difficult to reach by phone or e-mail. If I had known that installing a blower would shorten the life expectancy of the motor so greatly, I would've gone a different route.
Thanks,
Jorge

[Jrocket]

Originally posted by Conquest Deck
If I had known that installing a blower would shorten the life expectancy of the motor so greatly, I would've gone a different route.
Thanks,
Jorge
A blower doesnt exactly add life expectancy.It can shorten it if your not careful but the rod bearing spinning isnt necessarily from the Whipple.More like bad oiling or bad clearances from the start.If there was major detonation to damage a main bearing you would of had alot more problems up top,like broken ring landings and scored piston tops.
BTW, Gary would of been way more than that.

[nextasex]

I super highly doubt the blower had anything to do with the spun bearing(s). BTW Jorge, you got a super great deal from Whipple on your engine. Hey Dustin, will you build me one of those too?? Pretty please?? Jorge, your boat should be hauling some azz now bro!
Take Care,
Frank

[Rexone]

Originally posted by Whipple Charged
We then upgraded for free to the 3300 blower
Thanks,
Dustin
I don't interpret the above as meaning the whole blower was gonna be free and the old one would be returned. I guess people hear what they want to hear.
Sounds like a hell of a deal to me for a 496 upgrade of this caliber.

[Whipple Charged]

Jorge,
Mercury doesn't build the motors, General Motors does. The motors are not built for superchargers so engine life is always lost to some extent, 120 is certainly not what we or anybody would expect, but as we've said and a few others have mentioned, the spun bearings had very little to do with the SC.
As I also said, the biggest hold up with your motor was the crankshaft and trying to find one. You mentioned the cast crank, General Motors stopped making the forged crank because the Callies designed cast crank had less warranty claims and scored higher on the rockwell (sp?) test. If you look at the crank, it's the best cast crank most have seen. Believe me, if the motor detonates, it will blow the gasket and crack the piston on top of the ring land. Depending on how severe or how long it's detonating, the next thing that happens is the piston crumbles into millions of pieces. With the right air fuel ratios, spark advance and cylinder pressure (under 6psi), yours had 5psi, the motor should live at least three times more than your motor did. The stock valves are fine for the cylinder pressure and cylinder temps we run on the stock package. Your engine spun the bearings, it didn't hurt the pistons, rings, valves or crank (other than where the bearing spun).
The motor did not have to be beefed up, but you asked me to build up, more power, better parts. As for the larger supercharger, it cost more money and it was new. We took the old SC back, traded it with a brand new 3300 as well as new throttle body, injectors, etc. To any other customers, they would have to purchase a new SC, over $2100 and then all the corresponding parts.
Frank, at that price, I'll be even more broke! :D I'm certainly not in the engine building business, so when I do it, if I charge 9000, that means it cost me 18,000 :D Its hard for us to build motors, our niche is superchargers so engine building takes us twice as long and twice as expensive. Theres always Pfaff, TCM, GT Performance, Larrys Engine, Sterling, Eickert, etc. I'm happy to recommend any of them so I don't have to do it :D
Thanks,
Dustin

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Dustin,
Stop working so hard and get that Daytona out to Havasu.....
Say hi to your Pop for me.....
CJG
:cool:

[cola]

Dustin, I want to run your blower on my 2001 HD supercrew. Do you need one for a beta test. I run back & forth to Havasu every weekend. I could bring the truck up to the shop.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/500/1268109_0923_WEB-med.jpg

[hotlavey]

I had a Whipple installed on my HP500EFI(had 70 hours on it). We did an "in the water" diagnosis(fuel, water pressure, timing, etc.) after the install. Boat ran perfectly. Took the boat home, loaded it up with all the stuff and went to Parker. 5 hours of run time later and the engine hydraulic'd. Got towed back, went home, had the engine torn down. Water in four cylinders. Luckily, nothing was broken or bent. Head gasket had blown, and no sign of detonation. New valves and seats, new gaskets, and a big bill, and back to the water. That's boating.

[Jrocket]

Originally posted by hotlavey
I had a Whipple installed on my HP500EFI(had 70 hours on it). We did an "in the water" diagnosis(fuel, water pressure, timing, etc.) after the install. Boat ran perfectly. Took the boat home, loaded it up with all the stuff and went to Parker. 5 hours of run time later and the engine hydraulic'd. Got towed back, went home, had the engine torn down. Water in four cylinders. Luckily, nothing was broken or bent. Head gasket had blown, and no sign of detonation. New valves and seats, new gaskets, and a big bill, and back to the water. That's boating.
Did you replace the head gaskets when you installed the Whipple in the first place.Where they the original gaskets that blew?

[hotlavey]

They were original. I was told by Dustin(whipple pres) and others that with only 70 hours on the engine I didn't need to replace the gaskets. I found out differently.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

Hey Dustin.......
When did your Pop make you the President ?????
Hehehehehehehehe!!
CJG
:cool:

[hotlavey]

Well, maybe he isn't pres, but he's darn close. He has the correct last name.

[Jrocket]

Originally posted by hotlavey
They were original. I was told by Dustin(whipple pres) and others that with only 70 hours on the engine I didn't need to replace the gaskets. I found out differently.
That sucks.Most people have good luck with no problems on stock gaskets,atleast for awhile.How did it run before it broke?How was the power?How much HP do they think your making now?

[hotlavey]

According to the installer and the folks that did the repair I should be making about 700-750 hp. It ran great before it blew the gasket. Picked up only 5-6 mph tho. There were 4 loose valve seats found so I am not sure the engine ever put out the full power it was supposed to. I went from a 26Bravo to a 30 Bravo and could not pull more then 5K RPM's. Should be able to reach 5300 at least. We'll see next time out. Going to try it on Elsinore (ugh) before heading to the River. This coming Wed(4th) is the day.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

5-6 MPH gain ????
That does not make sense !!!
My hull is not as efficient as yours.....
Here's my history.
Stock 496 MAG HO @ 420 HP = 61 MPH on GPS w/22P Prop
Whippled 496 MAG HO @ 620 HP = 75 MPH on GPS w/26P Prop
Whippled 565 @ 875HP = 87 MPH on GPS w/28P Prop
Something is not right !!!!
I don't think you are making 700-750HP. I could be wrong, but if you started with 470HP and get another 200HP from the Whipple, that makes under 700HP.
Am I doing the math right ???
Anyone ??
:confused:
CJG

[Whipple Charged]

Hotlavey,
From what I know:
Blown factory gasket = motor detonating
Dropped valve seats = water PSI problem
Low MPH pickup = low power output, possible spark retard do to detonation.
What was the water psi @ WOT? If you go to a better gasket and don't solve the problem, it will hurt the piston.
Dustin

[502procharger]

dustin, i saw you on tv big dog.:D

[bajaboater502]

Well, it seems like the right guys are in the here for this question. stock 500Hp carb motor 150 hours on it. thinking of giving whipple a call, what upgrades does this motor need to increase life expectancy? What are the best head gaskets to run under this application and if I could what would be the best parts such as cam,crank,valves,pistons should I use? I may tear it down and do a refresher on it over the winter, have a great engine guy here but he is not a boat guy. would an ati procharger be the better setup? Thanks you gentlemen for any insight, I worked real hard to get this motor I don't want to ruin it from ignorance.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

ProCharger !!!....Do you kiss your momma with that mouth !!!
Dustin.....Help this guy out before he goes to the dark side !!!
:D

[HP350SC]

Originally posted by bajaboater502
Well, it seems like the right guys are in the here for this question. stock 500Hp carb motor 150 hours on it. thinking of giving whipple a call, what upgrades does this motor need to increase life expectancy? What are the best head gaskets to run under this application and if I could what would be the best parts such as cam,crank,valves,pistons should I use? I may tear it down and do a refresher on it over the winter, have a great engine guy here but he is not a boat guy. would an ati procharger be the better setup? Thanks you gentlemen for any insight, I worked real hard to get this motor I don't want to ruin it from ignorance.
Do yourself a favor and change the head gaskets before you do a blower. The stock HP500 gaskets are too weak and why risk hurting other components? Have machine shop do a wider seat on the exhaust valve and check your inner and outer valve springs too.

[bajaboater502]

I plan on doing a complete run through over the winter, I was figuring on installing the blower and running 5-6 psi of boost for this season then do some upgrades to engine then maybe run 8-9 psi next year. I have no problem changing the head gaskets now but who makes the best ones. Thanks for the input so far.

[HP350SC]

I run the fel-pro 1047 on a gen VI 502. Chose these for 2 reasons. They are plenty adequate as I wasn't goint to run over 9 lbs. And although Cometic is the latest newfangled thing I like to go with a tested and proven part. Not sure what cost difference is but probably fairly substantial.

[bajaboater502]

Thanks hp I will check out both of those.

[bajaboater502]

Thanks to all for the input. the procharger was just thrown in there to get a last minute reaction because I was sending a check to Dustin the next day for a whipple charger ( the eliminator whith twin quad rotor vipers runnin 155 kinda sells it)and just wanted some input before I spent all my jing. I agree that the whipple is the best looking blower out there and the instant responce is a big plus. Talked to Dustin yesterday and I should have it by wednesday or thursday of next week so if anyone has any install tips let me know. Thanks again to all the great and informative people I have talked with on here.