Hey BoatCop

[redneckgirl]

At our local lake this weekend, Lake Nacimiento, we past a Sheriff boat and waved... We were in the 5 MPH zone, I was sitting on the engine cover with my feet on the back bench seat, he asked me to sit in the boat??? Is this considered to be against the rules/laws... and if so what about the teak surfs you see all the time... I would never sit on the engine cover facing backwards with my feet on the swim step... Is it also wrong to lay on the engine cover in the 5 MPH zone??? just curious...
Thanks
RNG

[Lake Pirate]

What were you wearing? It's pertinent to your case. :D

[RiverToysJas]

We'll see what he says, but I think they like to pretend that is illegal, because they (the man) considers it unsafe. But in fact, there is no law against it. At least that's the way it used to be.
RTJas :D

[Mandelon]

You can even bowride at a no wake speed.

[Lake Pirate]

Riding on Bow, Gunwales or Transom is allowing passengers to ride or sit on the gunwales or on the decking over the bow while underway on a motorboat 26 ft. or less in length, unless the motorboat is equipped with adequate guards or railing to prevent falls overboard this activity is illegal and the driver will receive a misdemeanor offence.

[LASERRAY]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
Riding on Bow, Gunwales or Transom is allowing passengers to ride or sit on the gunwales or on the decking over the bow while underway on a motorboat 26 ft. or less in length, unless the motorboat is equipped with adequate guards or railing to prevent falls overboard this activity is illegal and the driver will receive a misdemeanor offence. Nice Google!:yuk: Quote your sources next time troll.:rolleyes:

[Lake Pirate]

here ya go laserwit
http://www.boat-ed.com/ar/handbook/oper.htm

[summerlove]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
Riding on Bow, Gunwales or Transom is allowing passengers to ride or sit on the gunwales or on the decking over the bow while underway on a motorboat 26 ft. or less in length, unless the motorboat is equipped with adequate guards or railing to prevent falls overboard this activity is illegal and the driver will receive a misdemeanor offence.
see Mr Know It All Mandy....:p I have a bow rail!

[LASERRAY]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
here ya go laserwit
http://www.boat-ed.com/ar/handbook/oper.htm
;) :D

[summerlove]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
here ya go laserwit
http://www.boat-ed.com/ar/handbook/oper.htm
uh-oh.....:eek:

[Lake Pirate]

I think it's universal? I googled The USACOE, the Coast Guard and the fish and wildlife. They all said the same thing and F&W mentioned the offence and the fine.

[RiverToysJas]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
here ya go laserwit
http://www.boat-ed.com/ar/handbook/oper.htm
That's just the bow, the original question conserns the engine cover. ;)
RTJas :D

[Lake Pirate]

The transom is on the back Captain Nemo.

[Dr. Eagle]

Uh-oh........... the more you know...........
You will know this is a no-no...http://www.boat-ed.com/generic/handbook/graphics/bowriding.jpg

[RiverToysJas]

Originally posted by Lake Pirate
The transom is on the back Captain Nemo.
I missed that! ;) I'm not sure the front edge of the engine cover would be considered "transom" though.
I know there was a law suit in Parker over this. The driver was cited, and it went to court, the driver proved in court, using the boats own literature, that it was OK to ride on the engine cover. They won, and now it's not cited anymore. That's the way I remember the story. I'll see if I can find it, unless Alan gets here first and clears it up!
RTJas :D

[redneckgirl]

Thanks for your reply guys... I was even sitting in the middle "not on the edge of the boat".... it would be pretty hard to fall in from the middle of the engine cover... our engine cover is not small by any means!!!
RNG

[RiverToysJas]

Read Froggy's reply & RD's reply in this thread (http://www.***boat.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=997)....
RTJas :D

[Lake Pirate]

I'd be interested to hear what the "cop" has to say. It's seems logical that the engine cover would be akin to riding on the hood of a car. Even if you are going slow it's probably unsafe by "cop" standards. This might be one of those gray areas whereas a cop can make a judgement call depending on the situation?

[Boatcop]

I know there was a law suit in Parker over this. The driver was cited, and it went to court, the driver proved in court, using the boats own literature, that it was OK to ride on the engine cover. They won, and now it's not cited anymore. That's the way I remember the story. I'll see if I can find it, unless Alan gets here first and clears it up!
Not a law suit. The owner plead not guilty to the charge, bringing in photos of the boat in advertisements, showing that people can ride there, according to the manufacturer. The Judge sided with the boater and dismissed the ticket.
However, that decision applied to that particular make and model of boat, only. It had no impact on the law or safety of riding on engine covers. Especially considering that since that time there have been 4 or 5 serious injuries here resulting from people sliding off the cover and into the prop at slow speeds.
You have to look at your boat pretty much the same way you look at your car. There is no law that says you can't sit on the window sill of your car as you drive down the street. Same with the hood, top, or trunk lid. However if you tried to do this, even in a parking lot marked for 5 MPH, you'd get stopped for unsafe driving. It's the same way with boats.
Just because there's upholstery on a part of the boat, doesn't mean it's safe to sit there. Look at some pontoon boats and bass boats. They have seats, either on the bow area, or, in the case of bass boats, up near the bow or stern to make it easier to fish.
But those seats are not designed for people to sit on at all speeds, and people are routinely warned and/or cited for there.
There's a reason that individual actions aren't spelled out in Boating Law, regarding unsafe operation. If we we're to specifically list every specific operation that injures or kills people on boats, the book would look like a set of encyclopedias.
We look at what causes injuries and deaths, and try to prevent others from doing the same thing. That falls under the catagory of "Careless, Reckless, or Negligent Operation of a Watercraft". If we cite someone for that section, it's up to US to prove how that particular operation is unsafe, and falls into that section. We do that by providing accident and incident reports that show people have been seriously injured or killed doing the exact same thing.
If someone were to contest a citation for riding on the engine cover, even under the case outlined above, we would probably prevail, since the data is now available showing several injuries, just in OUR jurisdiction, not to mention hundreds of others nationwide.
Teak surfing also comes under this catagory, even though it's not specifically meantioned in the statute.

[RiverDave]

Alan is the guy to ask (as posted above)
But to the best of my understanding.. At a wakeless speed sitting on the engine hatch of a boat (or up on the gunnels as I remember the wording of it being stated) with your feet inside is technically "legal" by AZ standards (so long as it's wakeless).. But it is ill advised by law enforcement
But by California law the same law is worded differently.. It sais "while underway" which means even at wakeless speeds you can get a ticket if it's under power?
Looking at Alan's post though it looks like they can write you a ticket either way, becuase of the negligent operation stand piont?
Is that right boatcop?

[redneckgirl]

Originally posted by Boatcop
Not a law suit. The owner plead not guilty to the charge, bringing in photos of the boat in advertisements, showing that people can ride there, according to the manufacturer. The Judge sided with the boater and dismissed the ticket.
However, that decision applied to that particular make and model of boat, only. It had no impact on the law or safety of riding on engine covers. Especially considering that since that time there have been 4 or 5 serious injuries here resulting from people sliding off the cover and into the prop at slow speeds.
You have to look at your boat pretty much the same way you look at your car. There is no law that says you can't sit on the window sill of your car as you drive down the street. Same with the hood, top, or trunk lid. However if you tried to do this, even in a parking lot marked for 5 MPH, you'd get stopped for unsafe driving. It's the same way with boats.
Just because there's upholstery on a part of the boat, doesn't mean it's safe to sit there. Look at some pontoon boats and bass boats. They have seats, either on the bow area, or, in the case of bass boats, up near the bow or stern to make it easier to fish.
But those seats are not designed for people to sit on at all speeds, and people are routinely warned and/or cited for there.
There's a reason that individual actions aren't spelled out in Boating Law, regarding unsafe operation. If we we're to specifically list every specific operation that injures or kills people on boats, the book would look like a set of encyclopedias.
We look at what causes injuries and deaths, and try to prevent others from doing the same thing. That falls under the catagory of "Careless, Reckless, or Negligent Operation of a Watercraft". If we cite someone for that section, it's up to US to prove how that particular operation is unsafe, and falls into that section. We do that by providing accident and incident reports that show people have been seriously injured or killed doing the exact same thing.
If someone were to contest a citation for riding on the engine cover, even under the case outlined above, we would probably prevail, since the data is now available showing several injuries, just in OUR jurisdiction, not to mention hundreds of others nationwide.
Teak surfing also comes under this catagory, even though it's not specifically meantioned in the statute.
So what you are saying is there is no specific law against it... but they could sight me or the driver for "Careless, Reckless, or Negligent Operation of a Watercraft". They were trying to protect me.... Thanks for your reply...
RNG

[superdave013]

The lake I grew up on all of the above was a no no at any speed. They did let you sit on an engine cover only in the mid engine ski boats.
I can't show you the law books on it but I know for a fact that Ralph Taylor of the DNR would stop you for it EVERY time.

[roostwear]

Originally posted by Boatcop
Just because there's upholstery on a part of the boat, doesn't mean it's safe to sit there. Look at some pontoon boats and bass boats. They have seats, either on the bow area, or, in the case of bass boats, up near the bow or stern to make it easier to fish.
But those seats are not designed for people to sit on at all speeds, and people are routinely warned and/or cited for there.
So would I be cited for having someone riding in the bow seats in my 18' Advantage open bow? It doesn't have bow rails, and I never get on it with someone up there, just on plane.

[HavasuDreamin']

Is it just me or is this guy a potential candidate for the Darwin Awards?
http://www.boat-ed.com/generic/handbook/graphics/bowriding.jpg

[RiverDave]

Originally posted by roostwear
So would I be cited for having someone riding in the bow seats in my 18' Advantage open bow? It doesn't have bow rails, and I never get on it with someone up there, just on plane.
I'm pretty sure that you have to have some sort of grab handle or rail on an open bow? Some people that are going for the cleaner look put them down on the seat pedestals (vertical part beneath the seat)
RD

[Dave C]

In Norcal the cops will tell you to sit in a seat while underway, including idling.

[Mandelon]

I've seen countless people bowriding through the channel and sitting on the engine hatch, with their feet inside. The Police may warn them, but that's it.
I asked the officer on the water in the channel about it and he told me that at no wake speeds it was not an offense. He thinks it is stupid, but they don't cite for it.
Man---->talked to the "man" about it<--------delon.
:cool:

[superdave013]

Originally posted by roostwear
So would I be cited for having someone riding in the bow seats in my 18' Advantage open bow? It doesn't have bow rails, and I never get on it with someone up there, just on plane.
Sitting in an open bow is not the same as sitting ON a bow.
Now if they were sitting on the gunnels fo the open bow that would be a no no.
Is my thinkin correct here?

[lucky]

SURVIVAL OF THE SMARTEST :D STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES .

[Boatcop]

Arizona Law is silent on rails or grab handles. It USED to be that by California Law you could ride on the decked over bow if it was equipped with bow rails, at least 12" high, but that was changed years ago.
Sitting in built-in bow seats, as in a bow rider, is perfectly legal and safe. However, Arizona law also says that no one can sit forward of the driver in a way that blocks his view.
It might be OK with Billy Barty in the bow seats, but I think Shaq would be a no-no.