trailer brakes question

[throttlejunkie]

I have 2003 Nordic Rage with the Nordic trailer, dual axle and disc brakes, and tow with 1/2 ton suburban. I have a house in Searchlight, Nevada and always launch at Cottonwood Cove. The trip is 13 miles, and downhill the whole way. The problem I have is, by the time I get to the marina, the left wheel becomes extremely hot. It seems like the trailer is constantly pushing against the back of the truck and applying the trailer brakes. This only happens when towing downhill. I took the trailer back to The Boat Broker in Havasu for service, and the mechanic said that he just needed to bleed the brakes. Well needless to say, that did not do the job. Anybody else here experience this problem, or have any suggestions on how to fix it.

[Havasu Hangin']

The surge brakes will be the problem- they are probably constantly engaging down that hill.
You gotta remember that the brakes are what's slowing you down. Any pressure off the trailer will be transfered to the truck brakes (not good).
I'm wondering why only one wheel gets hot- the other one may not be working properly.
I have seen people that tow on hills alot add another set of brakes to the other axle- it will spread out the load a little. However, I'd make sure both of your current discs are working properly before going that route.

[Dr. Eagle]

When I am on a downhill with the boat trailer, I will usually brake and slow down and then touch the gas to unload the brake Master Cylinder. Then I coast and let the rig pick up some speed, then do it again... I do this of course checking on vehicles following behind... it'll drive them nuts. But in the slow lane it isn't such a big deal most of the time. It helps keep the brakes cooler.
I never had one disc brake drag or carry most of the load before myself like HH says. I too wonder if the other brake is not functioning properly.

[Huckleberry]

I try to do the same thing as Dr. Eagle, but it is a pain in the arse to keep doing it. One of the board members had a homemade pneumatic system on his trailer that basically held the trailer surge brake open when going downhill, and then he would release it a the bottom of the hill. He lives at the top of the hills in Havasu, and was on the brakes all the way to the lake. It was a pretty trick system. The only down side was in a panic stop, you no longer had the benefit of the trailer brakes, but in driving around town in Havasu, you only drive slow anyway. Maybe Dennis will see this and post some pics of his work.

[welk2party]

I also tap the brake to slow then go again.

[BROS&HOS]

You could always switch to electric. You can also lock them like a parking brake when you are on the ramp too.

[throttlejunkie]

Thanks for the feedback guys. I will check the right side brakes to make sure they are working. And I think I will try the tap / gas idea also. If anybody else has any suggestions, I would like to here them.

[Moe_Havi]

Under correct working conditions you should not have a problem. Your brakes are not working right and eventually (read soon) it will get worse because the brakes won't be wearng evenly causing one side to burn out. If you do find the problem you should probably change the pads anyway. I have gone down that grade many times and it isn't really that steep at all.
Moe

[dkreuzen]

Originally posted by Huckleberry
I try to do the same thing as Dr. Eagle, but it is a pain in the arse to keep doing it. One of the board members had a homemade pneumatic system on his trailer that basically held the trailer surge brake open when going downhill, and then he would release it a the bottom of the hill. He lives at the top of the hills in Havasu, and was on the brakes all the way to the lake. It was a pretty trick system. The only down side was in a panic stop, you no longer had the benefit of the trailer brakes, but in driving around town in Havasu, you only drive slow anyway. Maybe Dennis will see this and post some pics of his work.
What's up with "Huckleberry" Jim?
Yes, I had the downhill brake problem with my last few trailers. And where I used to live and boat I had to go over some very steep hills where low gear would slow me down enough but that would also activate the trailer brakes. After frying a few sets of brake shoes and wheel bearings I made up the system Jim is referring to.
This pneumatic system would prevent the brakes from activating on the downhill runs in low gear but with the right amount of air pressure the brakes still worked when the truck brakes were applied, just not as soon. I used it for about 6 years without any problems. Now that I live in Havasu the problem wasn’t as bad and when I got my new boat the system didn’t get installed on the new trailer.
Dennis

[Tom Brown]

Originally posted by BROS&HOS
You could always switch to electric.
I also think this is a good idea. :)

[coolchange]

Here's my exp with that problem. A quick slowing jerk to the tongue puts pressure to the brakes but is never fully released in a down hill situation. Heavier the trailer/ worse the problem.
Added a shock absorber with a spring to the master cylinder off a motorcycle. Shock slows the reaction down and the spring releases the pressure as in a down hill compression braking situation( off the gas but not on the brakes).

[throttlejunkie]

Thanks again for the responses.
dkreuzen.....I may be in need of your help / details of this pneumatic system that you came up with. In the meantime, I will check the right side brakes to make sure they are working properly.

[cruser]

If you have a disk brake system you could install a switch to energize the revers/backup solenoid the disable the brake as needed.
cruzer

[1stepcloser]

Originally posted by BROS&HOS
You could always switch to electric.
Electric brakes dont fare too well with water. Something about water being a conductor.
Larger boat trailers, Myco for example, use a combination of electric and hydraulic, an electric actuator applies the hydraulic master cylinder.
This is the the best method, IMO. However, its kind of a bulky system and takes up space on the tounge.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by 1stepcloser
Larger boat trailers, Myco for example, use a combination of electric and hydraulic, an electric actuator applies the hydraulic master cylinder.
And don't forget there is a small (but wonderful) delay (which may or may not seem like an eternity) as the electric pump builds pressure...

[1stepcloser]

I'm guessing you have this with the new tug?:cool:

[Desert Rat]

Originally posted by cruser
If you have a disk brake system you could install a switch to energize the revers/backup solenoid the disable the brake as needed.
cruzer
This would be the easy way to go. A simple circuit with a switch to engage the reverse solenoid that provides an open loop to port brake fluid back to the reservoir. It would help to install a decent sized diode in the circuit so that when you do use the switch it will not feed back into the tow vehicle and turn the reverse lights on. I would also use a paddle type switch that is backlighted so you have some type indication to remind you that you have disabled your trailer brakes.

[Havasu Hangin']

Originally posted by 1stepcloser
I'm guessing you have this with the new tug?:cool:
Yes. I learned two important lessons early on:
1. With electric over hydraulic they stop hard...but you'd better be looking a couple seconds ahead.
2. If not adjusted properly...my boat will push me through an intersection just because it can.
The look on my face ------> :eek:

[Dr. Eagle]

Originally posted by cruser
If you have a disk brake system you could install a switch to energize the revers/backup solenoid the disable the brake as needed.
cruzer
You could, but you'd have to be careful how you wire it. You'd need to insert a Diode between the Solenoid and the backup light or you'd energize the backup light while moving forward... something you can get a ticket for.
Also you need to REMEMBER to set the switch to a normal position after going downhill. How many people forget that their signal is on? It'd work for sure...

[Seadog]

If you want to stay with disc brakes, you can go with a electric over hydraulic actuator. It would be a bolt on replacement for your existing hitch actuator. They work extremely well, but are pricey ($600-900).
You can go to totally electric brakes. These only come in drum style at present, but are much better in stopping power than surge drum brakes. You need to get the Fulton water-tite model that is offered at BoatUS and other places. These are even good in salt water. They are not RV brakes that everyone badmouths. They are a complete system that is sealed against the water. It is easy to install yourself and are fabulous. For 14" single axle, they run $350-400 for the kit. If there is a negative, it is that you have to coil and tuck the excess wiring away. Being a sealed system, you cannot cut the wire to length.

[1stepcloser]

Originally posted by Havasu Hangin'
Yes. I learned two important lessons early on:
1. With electric over hydraulic they stop hard...but you'd better be looking a couple seconds ahead.
2. If not adjusted properly...my boat will push me through an intersection just because it can.
The look on my face ------> :eek:
:D
Same thing happened to me the first time I towed my RV trailer. I hooked it up, set the brakes according to the manual that came with the actuator, and headed for home.
Everything was going well, brakes seemed ok.....(I remeber thinking, wow, this trailer seems to push alot....)
getting off the 60 freeway at Euclid, little slope to the bottom, green light, cool....slow down a little for the dip.....light goes yellow.....no biggie, still time to stop.....get on the brakes.....a little harder than normal......:confused: WTF? this thing aint slowing down......at all! :eek: deep in the brakes now......little slowing....but nowhere near enough.....:eek: on the horn now....rolled right on through the intersection.
I learned that day that the brake actuator also depends on something called inertia to increase the current to the pucks.
No more gentle slowing.....

[dkreuzen]

Originally posted by cruser
If you have a disk brake system you could install a switch to energize the revers/backup solenoid the disable the brake as needed.
cruzer
This would definitely kill the brakes on a downhill run but since some of the valves bleed off the fluid and pressure from the master cylinder your brakes wouldn’t work again until you closed the valve and pulled on the trailer enough to reset the master cylinder so it will have fluid again. Some other system just shut off the flow between the master cylinder and the brakes which may work but you could trap pressure on the brake side making the barkes stay on. Maybe a combination of valves may work.
This is why I didn’t attack the problem with the switch and valve as you could be without trailer brakes if you really wanted to stop while in this mode. I urge any of you that are considering this to think again or let me know when you are coming down that hill so I can get out of the way! :eek:
Dennis.

[cruser]

I should have added that this is something I wouldn't be comfortable doing if the hill was very steep or long. I personally would want to know why the brakes are not being applied equally on both sides.
cruzer

[Havasu Cig]

Originally posted by 1stepcloser
Electric brakes dont fare too well with water. Something about water being a conductor.
Larger boat trailers, Myco for example, use a combination of electric and hydraulic, an electric actuator applies the hydraulic master cylinder.
This is the the best method, IMO. However, its kind of a bulky system and takes up space on the tounge.
This is the only way to go IMO. I would never go back to surge unless the boat was small and did not weigh much.
Between this system and the Allison in our truck going down hills is easy. The tranny down shifts and will hold you at speed and you can tap the brake actuator for some extra help if needed.