geardrive

[kurt]

i recently rebuilt the top end on my 454.i installed a new geardrive and even though i didnt use a roller cam set i installed the thrust washer and button.useing modeling clay i verified that all clearences were good.5 mintutes into the cam break in procedure i hear this god aweful clatter comeing from behind the timeing cover.i take the cover off and notice the thrust washer is just floating behind the cam gear.i attemt to reinstall the washer but it wont stay put.what gives guys?can i run this without the washer?i tore it apart again and installed the cam gear without the washer or button.i will wait for advice before i fire it again.thanks in adavance....

[Fiat48]

What brand gear drive did you install?
You're losing me with the "thrust washer just floating around behind the cam gear."
And I am sure you need it and need the cam button. Don't fire it.

[Moneypitt]

Bob, I think he's refering to the torrington bearing that installs behind the upper gear, and yes, if the cam is not retained to the rear it will fall behind the thrust surface of the gear. I'm wondering what type/style timing cover he has.......Ray

[kurt]

the geardrive was made by proform,there tech support said it wasnt nessecary to use the bronze washer or the button unless i was useing a roller cam set.the cam just wont go far enough back toward the block to pinch the washer,so it just walks off the back of the camgear.i lit it up yesterday only to hear the same clatter,plus the geardrive isnt makeing the whineing sound that it supposed to.bad gearset i think.im going back to a standard chain set to see if it takes the clatter out,if it doesnt ill have to look at the fuel pump rod area.hell maybe i need a longer rod...........frustrated in MO...............kurt

[Snowboat]

The chain kept the cam from walking, before the gear drive was installed. If the gear drive has spur cut gears (straight ones), the cam will walk until it hits the cover. Any rub marks on the cover? Call them back and try a different rep.

[Fiat48]

Better find out why the camshaft won't go back against the face of the block/washer. Rear cam plug installed too deep may be the reason.

[GofastRacer]

According to his first post, it's not a roller cam therefore there is no cam walk, the lifters keep the cam from moving forward and don't need a button!. The Proform is a dual idler like the Jackson. With a flat tappet cam the only end play adjustment on those is the distance of the idler gears between the block and cover!. If that washer is falling off that means the cam gear is not against the block and I will have to agree with Fiat, the cam plug may be pushed in too far preventing the cam from going all the way back!. Or maybe the front oil galley plugs are not in far enough and they are rubbing against the back of the gear??? ....

[LeE ss13]

au contraire oh owner of a purple boat !!! Haven't you ever read the back pages of an old Iskederian Cam catalog ??? Cams DO walk in flat tappet and Hydraulic setups. Sometimes the lifter bores aren't machined correctly. I saw one years ago in a BBC. The guy that put the engine together could not understand why when he raised the engine speed, the ignition timing would retard. (as the cam goes forward, the timing backs up because of the helical cut gears.) Most of us V-Drive guys don't worry about it 'cause we have water pumps holding the cam back.

[GofastRacer]

Originally posted by LeE ss13
au contraire oh owner of a purple boat !!! Haven't you ever read the back pages of an old Iskederian Cam catalog ??? Cams DO walk in flat tappet and Hydraulic setups. Sometimes the lifter bores aren't machined correctly. I saw one years ago in a BBC. The guy that put the engine together could not understand why when he raised the engine speed, the ignition timing would retard. (as the cam goes forward, the timing backs up because of the helical cut gears.) Most of us V-Drive guys don't worry about it 'cause we have water pumps holding the cam back.
Yep I've read it and it's true if the bores aren't machined right the lifters won't hold it back. I guess I been lucky, I never ran a water pump on my Lavey and never had a flat tappet cam walk yet!.:rolleyes:

[Fiat48]

I set end play on everything. You learn that real quick if you drive an injector pump off the cam.

[GofastRacer]

Originally posted by Fiat48
I set end play on everything. You learn that real quick if you drive an injector pump off the cam.
Yeah no shit!..:D

[kurt]

thanks for the advice guys,snowboat,no there are no rub marks on the cover even after starting it with the button off.fiat,im sure youre right with the cam plug being to far in but i didnt change it from the last cam and i never had any probs with that one other then i lost a lifter[but thats was years of abuse].go fast racer,after reading your reply i went out to the boat and checked the plug clearence and its fine.i came in to cool off and checked the post.im headin back out to install the chain set.the idler arm on that gear set seemed to flex alot.maybe i just got a bumm set.thanks again guys ill let you know what happens in a couple hours.

[kurt]

well the geardrive came out and the chain went back in.clatter still there.took the boat to a hi-perf shop and they said it sounds like the crank is hitting something as its turning and not a bearing or rod.i took the dipstick and dipstick tube out and clatter still there.supposed to rain for a few days so ill be pulling the motor AGAIN.

[GofastRacer]

Originally posted by kurt
well the geardrive came out and the chain went back in.clatter still there.took the boat to a hi-perf shop and they said it sounds like the crank is hitting something as its turning and not a bearing or rod.i took the dipstick and dipstick tube out and clatter still there.supposed to rain for a few days so ill be pulling the motor AGAIN.
If you have a windage tray in there, I'll bet a rod is hitting it somewhere, need to lower it a bit!..

[Rexone]

Originally posted by GofastRacer
If you have a windage tray in there, I'll bet a rod is hitting it somewhere, need to lower it a bit!..
If that was the case why would it wait for 5 minutes of break in before making noise.
I don't have the answer either btw.

[GofastRacer]

Originally posted by Rexone
If that was the case why would it wait for 5 minutes of break in before making noise.
I don't have the answer either btw.
You're right, forgot about the 5 minute breakin dealio!:rolleyes: Hmmmm, something came loose somewhere maybe???:confused:

[kurt]

thanks for all the suggestions guys,i think i found the culprit.the oil pump was loose.it appears to me that the nylon part of the nut isnt engageing on the stud far enough and it walk up.longer stud and some red locktite and i think ill be back in business.i just hope i didnt flatten the cam with all the starts and shut downs.