noddling..................

[Blown 472]

I was thinking, (thou I dont do it often) that since my boat does not turn a huge rpm that I would buy my next motor, after this one dies to be a torque monster, big lift short duration cam, small ports, small valves and long runners on the intake to be all done at say 5000 rpm.

[Fiat48]

Exactly. Don't forget big cubic inch.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Exactly. Don't forget big cubic inch.
Maybe offset grind a crank and (gulp) use a chivvy rod for a 514.:D

[Fiat48]

I'll design you something...say 514 ish..gasoline, 9.5 to 1 compression and all in all done at 5000. For the Hell of it. See what kinda HP possible. Stay tuned.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
I'll design you something...say 514 ish..gasoline, 9.5 to 1 compression and all in all done at 5000. For the Hell of it. See what kinda HP possible. Stay tuned.
Cool, iron heads too.:D

[Fiat48]

Bore: 4.390
Stroke: 4.250
9.5 to 1 compression
100% Ve and 110% TE
29.5 Barometer
5000 rpm = 425 hp and 517 ft lbs
Max torque occurs 3333 RPM
Intake port area required is only 2.978
Since near any cast performance head is better than that I upped the ante to 6000 RPM. Even if you had to do a jet B impellor to get there:
Hp went to 510 hp. Torque now occurs at 4000 rpm and Intake port area required grows to 3.574. That's easily attainable with any decent iron Ford head. I'd need some flow head numbers to tell what the cam would be.
But then if you were to alcohol and Injectors (you knew that was coming :D ) then we could do 15 to 1 compression:
804.5 Hp at 6000 rpm AND 815 Ft Lbs at 4000 rpm and still only requires 3.574 of intake port area. And no need for a B impellor for sure.
Actually it would be make more power than that if we added the 15% you get for alcohol.
You need a LARGE FUEL TANK. Kinda the size of the bow. :D
PS: Add 1.0275% for chivvy rods. :p

[HBjet]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Torque now occurs at 4000 rpm and Intake port area required grows to 3.574. That's easily attainable with any decent iron Ford head.
So was the torque # at that RPM? Thanks
HBjet

[DogHouse]

Originally posted by Fiat48
...But then if you were to alcohol and Injectors (you knew that was coming :D ) then we could do 15 to 1 compression:
804.5 Hp at 6000 rpm AND 815 Ft Lbs at 4000 rpm and still only requires 3.574 of intake port area. And no need for a B impellor for sure.
Actually it would be make more power than that if we added the 15% you get for alcohol.
You need a LARGE FUEL TANK. Kinda the size of the bow. :D
PS: Add 1.0275% for chivvy rods. :p
Or you could just build a pump gas Chevy and get 813 hp. Must have been the rods... :p
:D

[Hotcrusader76]

Originally posted by Blown 472
...and (gulp) use a chivvy rod for a 514.:D
May the demons never again let you rest alone...:D

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by HBjet
So was the torque # at that RPM? Thanks
HBjet
Yes. Torque ft lbs stayed the same but occured at 4000 rpm instead of 3333. 517 ft lbs.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Bore: 4.390
Stroke: 4.250
9.5 to 1 compression
100% Ve and 110% TE
29.5 Barometer
5000 rpm = 425 hp and 517 ft lbs
Max torque occurs 3333 RPM
Intake port area required is only 2.978
Since near any cast performance head is better than that I upped the ante to 6000 RPM. Even if you had to do a jet B impellor to get there:
Hp went to 510 hp. Torque now occurs at 4000 rpm and Intake port area required grows to 3.574. That's easily attainable with any decent iron Ford head. I'd need some flow head numbers to tell what the cam would be.
But then if you were to alcohol and Injectors (you knew that was coming :D ) then we could do 15 to 1 compression:
804.5 Hp at 6000 rpm AND 815 Ft Lbs at 4000 rpm and still only requires 3.574 of intake port area. And no need for a B impellor for sure.
Actually it would be make more power than that if we added the 15% you get for alcohol.
You need a LARGE FUEL TANK. Kinda the size of the bow. :D
PS: Add 1.0275% for chivvy rods. :p
I wonder if could get a tank fitted into the bow:D
Hows about a 4.420 bore, 4.140 stroke with 6.700 rod and 9.5 to 1 comp ratio. With the non cj port heads, I dont know what the area of the intake port is but I can measure the opening.
Some nice torque numbers, rippen arms off skiers.:wink:

[78Eliminator]

Originally posted by Blown 472
I wonder if could get a tank fitted into the bow:D
No shit. My weak suck 454 eats 13 gallons in maybe 10 miles of river. From Martinez to Piccacho and I am out of gas........
Time to take a trip to the lake with a box of jets, as I am rich as hell.

[Dave C]

done it, twice........ good stuff I tell ya.....
Originally posted by Blown 472
I was thinking, (thou I dont do it often) that since my boat does not turn a huge rpm that I would buy my next motor, after this one dies to be a torque monster, big lift short duration cam, small ports, small valves and long runners on the intake to be all done at say 5000 rpm.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
I wonder if could get a tank fitted into the bow:D
Hows about a 4.420 bore, 4.140 stroke with 6.700 rod and 9.5 to 1 comp ratio. With the non cj port heads, I dont know what the area of the intake port is but I can measure the opening.
Some nice torque numbers, rippen arms off skiers.:wink:
The big bore and shorter stroke comes out 508 inches. At 6000, the Hp possible is 503. Torque is 464 ft lbs @ 4000. Intake port are required is still 3.529. I beleive the non CJ head is capable of that.
The reason I say that is a set of Dart heads I had flowed and measured way back when had a port restriction measurement of 4.004. But then that was a chivvvy. :D

[LakesOnly]

Hey Blown,
You know you can build a 514 with a 6.800" rod?
Also, if you want more torque, how about steppin' up to a 533 with the 4.300 stroke. (521 @ .030" overbore).
LO

[LakesOnly]

521 w/ 4.300 stroke and flat-tops is just 10:1 with an iron D3 head. :D I intend to build a 533 for the next shortblock that gets my D3's...
LO

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
521 w/ 4.300 stroke and flat-tops is just 10:1 with an iron D3 head. :D I intend to build a 533 for the next shortblock that gets my D3's...
LO
Can ya get that stroke by offset grinding?

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Can ya get that stroke by offset grinding?
Sorry...no. 4.15" is the max you can go with the stock crank and a 2.200 rod journal, and that's assuming a perfect crankshaft and a good grinder.
Chevy 2.100 could get you to 4.25", but I'm not sure what their big-end width is vs. the 460 journal.
Could do a Ford 240 6 cyl rod...they are 6.795' (6.800" after resizing) and you can offset grind to 4.225". Must use the C8AE rod, not the earlier C5AE (C8AE has a .975" pin so .990 pin is easy oversize).
4.225 stroke & 4.39 bore = 511
.....................4.44 bore = 523
These are still around 10:1 c/r w/D3 heads...D0VE's with 22cc dish will net about the same c/r.
LO

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
Sorry...no. 4.15" is the max you can go with the stock crank and a 2.200 rod journal, and that's assuming a perfect crankshaft and a good grinder.
Chevy 2.100 could get you to 4.25", but so could a Ford 240 6 cyl rod...they are 6.795' (6.800" after resizing) and you can offset grind to 4.225". Must use the C8AE rod, not the earlier C5AE.
4.225 stroke & 4.39 bore = 511
.....................4.44 bore = 523
These are still around 10:1 c/r w/D3 heads...D0VE's with 22cc dish will net about the same c/r.
LO
I have a bench grinder in the garage:D
Do you have any flow numbers for a mild ported dove? and intake port area numbers?

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
Sorry...no. 4.15" is the max you can go with the stock crank and a 2.200 rod journal, and that's assuming a perfect crankshaft and a good grinder.
Chevy 2.100 could get you to 4.25", but I'm not sure what their big-end width is vs. the 460 journal.
Could do a Ford 240 6 cyl rod...they are 6.795' (6.800" after resizing) and you can offset grind to 4.225". Must use the C8AE rod, not the earlier C5AE (C8AE has a .975" pin so .990 pin is easy oversize).
4.225 stroke & 4.39 bore = 511
.....................4.44 bore = 523
These are still around 10:1 c/r w/D3 heads...D0VE's with 22cc dish will net about the same c/r.
LO
Hummm that rod might live in a low rpm dealio. I might have to go junk yarding, they can be bushed to a .990 pin too?

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Do you have any flow numbers for a mild ported dove? and intake port area numbers?
Just came accross intake port area numbers for D0VE's this morning and can't remember, but I recall they satisfy Fiat's C.I. program requirments in (pretty much) both cases. 3.4X" comes to mind...
D0VE's flow about 290 cfm as-cast and with the stock 2.08" intake. Bowl blending helps the most out of all the D0VE intake porting requirements. Max effort can get you 375+ with the bigger valve, etc. (My D3's flow 345 @ .600 and 370 @ .800 measured at 28 in.)
LO

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
Just came accross intake port area numbers for D0VE's this morning and can't remember, but I recall they satisfy Fiat's C.I. program requirments in (pretty much) both cases. 3.4X" comes to mind...
D0VE's flow about 290 cfm as-cast and with the stock 2.08" intake. Bowl blending helps the most out of all the D0VE intake porting requirements. Max effort can get you 375+ with the bigger valve, etc. (My D3's flow 345 @ .600 and 370 @ .800 measured at 28 in.)
LO
What size valves? 2.190 or 2.225? 1.76 exhaust?

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Hummm that rod might live in a low rpm dealio. I might have to go junk yarding, they can be bushed to a .990 pin too?
Ya know, I admit I've never run those rods, and I hear many others question their integrity. Yes, there are other (stronger) options these days. The C8AE's sure seem to have held up in those marine applications, though. The guy at DSC told me he has a customer in Vegas spinning one of those motors to 8000 rpm. I admit I too am not sure what to think about that one...but 5000 can't be a big deal to those rods. Prep 'em well and they can't be any weaker than the CJ rod.
By the way, I understand that AW Brown offers several unique-displacement rotating assemblies that are in addition to the standard 514-533-557 dealios. Most of them are not advertised and you need to call an inquire. They are not one-off crank salvage deals but simply other viable options, so they're usually in-stock...just not advertised.
Don't know about bushing a C8AE rod; I have some SCJ rods that were not bushed but have been opened up enough to float the pin...maybe you could do this with the 240 rod if you really feel it's necessary.
LO

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
What size valves? 2.190 or 2.225? 1.76 exhaust?
If you are asking about my D3's I now have 2.19" intake and 1.72" exh.
I think a 2.19" would be better than a 2.25" for what you're building, and also better suited for the D0VE intake port cross-section (in most applications).

[Blown 472]

Just came accross intake port area numbers for D0VE's this morning and can't remember, but I recall they satisfy Fiat's C.I. program requirments in (pretty much) both cases. 3.4X" comes to mind...
D0VE's flow about 290 cfm as-cast and with the stock 2.08" intake. Bowl blending helps the most out of all the D0VE intake porting requirements. Max effort can get you 375+ with the bigger valve, etc. (My D3's flow 345 @ .600 and 370 @ .800 measured at 28 in.)
Ok Fiat48 a bigger stroke and smaller bore will help with my quest for a low rpm torque monster, correct? Do these numbers help with a cam selection?
Also for shits and grins can you run another combo? 4.420 bore, 3.590" stroke, 11.3 to 1 comp ratio. 6:71 with a bug catcher on 100% alky and about 15 psi. Same head flow as above.
What hp and torque will it make and what kinda cam would it want?? Thanks, this is fun stuff on a rainy day.

[LakesOnly]

A.W.Brown @ "Performance Crankshaft, Inc.: 1 (586) 549-7557
Gotta go; I exploded the Sure-Grip in my tow vehicle...accidental neutral drop! I pulled dropped a unit from a diff in a yard and need to do swap out with my blown one...TTYL
LO

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Just came accross intake port area numbers for D0VE's this morning and can't remember, but I recall they satisfy Fiat's C.I. program requirments in (pretty much) both cases. 3.4X" comes to mind...
D0VE's flow about 290 cfm as-cast and with the stock 2.08" intake. Bowl blending helps the most out of all the D0VE intake porting requirements. Max effort can get you 375+ with the bigger valve, etc. (My D3's flow 345 @ .600 and 370 @ .800 measured at 28 in.)
Ok Fiat48 a bigger stroke and smaller bore will help with my quest for a low rpm torque monster, correct? Do these numbers help with a cam selection?
Also for shits and grins can you run another combo? 4.420 bore, 3.590" stroke, 11.3 to 1 comp ratio. 6:71 with a bug catcher on 100% alky and about 15 psi. Same head flow as above.
What hp and torque will it make and what kinda cam would it want?? Thanks, this is fun stuff on a rainy day.
What you want is cubic inches. I always prefer biggest bore possible because of valve unshrouding. I would also use the larger valves. Not a have to. The bigger the motor...the quicker the cylinder head is used up.
On the camshaft end of it, the program usually wants a mid lift flow number. In the case of the 4.390 bore and 4.250 stroke dealio....the program wants to know flows at .533 lift on Intake and exhaust. I am assuming a 1.73 rocker ratio and solid type cam. But I can change that.
The shits and grins dept:
1055.5 Hp at 6000 rpm
973 ft lbs torque at 100% efficiency @ 4000 rpm
And since it is alcohol...you could add a conservative 100 hp to that 1055.5 hp number.
To do the cam for that one....I need port flows at .495 lift.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
What you want is cubic inches. I always prefer biggest bore possible because of valve unshrouding. I would also use the larger valves. Not a have to. The bigger the motor...the quicker the cylinder head is used up.
On the camshaft end of it, the program usually wants a mid lift flow number. In the case of the 4.390 bore and 4.250 stroke dealio....the program wants to know flows at .533 lift on Intake and exhaust. I am assuming a 1.73 rocker ratio and solid type cam. But I can change that.
The shits and grins dept:
1055.5 Hp at 6000 rpm
973 ft lbs torque at 100% efficiency @ 4000 rpm
And since it is alcohol...you could add a conservative 100 hp to that 1055.5 hp number.
To do the cam for that one....I need port flows at .495 lift.
Yes, solid cam, 1.73 rockers. Dang it I need to find some flow numbers.
Why is it that alky makes so much more power? that is a big number for such a small motor.
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2004/05/EdelbrockFlowTest/index.shtml
This is the best I could do, tried to cut and paste and no go.
The standard 429/460ci cylinder head sports 2.09-inch intake and 1.65-inch exhaust valves. Port sizes are 2.18x1.87-inch intake and 1.99x1.30-inch exhaust. What this means for you is healthy airflow in stock form.

[Fiat48]

The 1055 Hp is a gas number. But remember..to get that number you have to get 100% VE. Which would not be hard with this motor and a supercharger.
Actually adding 10% Hp for alky is conservative. I think the rule of thumb is 15% for putting it in the tank and about 25% if compression and camshaft optimised for alcohol.
Roughly you use 2.2 times more alcohol than gasoline.
So this 1055 HP could be done with gasoline....as far as the program is concerned... but 11.5 compression and 15 lbs of boost is alcohol city...not gas territory.

[LakesOnly]

AS- CAST:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/ExcellFlowSheetStreetAsCastFinal.jpg
PORTED:
http://www.reincarnation-automotive.com/ExcellChartBBFheadsPortedStreet.jpg
D0VE's are at the top left of each chart. For ported flow spec's use "D0VE-C 2/2" for standard intake port cross-section and "D0VE-C 3/2" for SCJ intake port match. (Notice loss of low-lift flow with the SCJ port match; Blown, you want standard port cross-section for that torque motor.)
LO

[Blown 472]

Lakes thanks for the numbers, get that mopar fixxed?
That is what I was thinking, small port heads, use my port o sonic and weld the ports to match the heads or trade it for a small port one as this one is set up for a dominator carb.

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Lakes ...get that mopar fixxed?
The dealer refused to sell me the factory tool! Internal only...I need it to set preload on the carrier bearings.
Time to call Snap-On...
LO

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by LakesOnly
The dealer refused to sell me the factory tool! Internal only...I need it to set preload on the carrier bearings.
Time to call Snap-On...
LO
For adjusting the spaners on the brgs? get a piece of flat stock and put a couple bolts thru it to adjust them, or use two screw drivers and a pry bar. Or a really big hammer. :D :D

[Fiat48]

Now you got some numbers on flow. Tell me what configuration you want the cam dealio done on.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Now you got some numbers on flow. Tell me what configuration you want the cam dealio done on.
I am thinking flat tappet for both of them, the torque monster and the alky if you dont mind. I will have to port match the heads to a cj port on the alky deal as the intake is set up for that.
I am sure a roller will make more power but I dont want to pull it apart every year to inspect the lifters. read: lazy and cheap:D
Just got back from soccer.
The torque motor 4.420 bore, 4.140 stroke with 6.800 rod and the ported dove numbers. 9.5 to 1, 2.19 valve and a 1.72 exhaust. Standard 2/2 chart for the dove with this one.
The alky deal 4.420 bore, 3.59 stroke, 11.3 to one and the ported dove numbers with the same size valves. 3/2 dove chart for this one.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
I am thinking flat tappet for both of them, the torque monster and the alky if you dont mind. I will have to port match the heads to a cj port on the alky deal as the intake is set up for that.
I am sure a roller will make more power but I dont want to pull it apart every year to inspect the lifters. read: lazy and cheap:D
Just got back from soccer.
The torque motor 4.420 bore, 4.140 stroke with 6.800 rod and the ported dove numbers. 9.5 to 1, 2.19 valve and a 1.72 exhaust. Standard 2/2 chart for the dove with this one.
The alky deal 4.420 bore, 3.59 stroke, 11.3 to one and the ported dove numbers with the same size valves. 3/2 dove chart for this one.
Torque Motor
designing for 29.5 barometer 100% VE and 110% TE. 6000 rpm.
508 inches. 503 HP @6000. 510 ft lbs @4000.
3.529 Intake port area required.
Using DOVE-C head flow chart. 1.73 rocker ratio. Solid camshaft .025 lash
Program wants lift at .530 flow numbers. Example head shows 264/135 at .500. Will use 268/135 for .530 lift. Head all in and all done at .500 exhaust? Not good..don't like it. But anyway:
Camshaft called for:
.740 intake lift and 256 @ .050
.703 exhaust lift and 280 @ .050
But...exhaust all done at .500 lift...so no reason to open doors wider that don't flow. Cylinder head won't work. "As Cast"
So we step to the ported DOVE-C
307/195 flows
Using 310/199
Camshaft called for:
Intake .683 lift and 254@.050
Exhaust .649 lift and 268@.050
Lobe seperation calls for only 105. Believe I would do 108.
My opinion: I beleive the HP numbers could be real given the flow numbers provided are accurate if the ported cylinder head was used.
But in order to follow the camshaft design plots to achieve the desired Hp/torque results, the camshaft grind should follow the plots at .050, .100, .200, .300, .400 .
I'll post that right here:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374torque-med.JPG
ALKY deal:
440.6 cubic inches
15 lbs boost
6000 (?) rpm
100% Ve and TE
Only a 3.060 Intake port area required. (little motor)
1055.5 Hp @6000 973 ft lbs at 4000
Using cylinder head CJ 3/2
.500 lift 314/195
Camshaft required:
Intake .590 lift and 232@.050
Exhaust .560 lift and 252 @.050
Timing plots and tuned length chart will be here:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374Blown472440-med.JPG

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Torque Motor
....Head all in and all done at .500 exhaust? Not good..don't like it. But anyway:
Cylinder head won't work. "As Cast"
Completely agreed, but hold on here....let me make one thing clear: We ALL agree that the as-cast BBF heads have dismal exhaust flow numbers and characteristics. You two guys shouldn't even be wasting your time with those unported heads...unless AT LEAST the exhaust is ported.
Originally posted by Fiat48
So we step to the ported DOVE-C
307/195 flows
Using 310/199
Camshaft called for:
Intake .683 lift and 254@.050
Exhaust .649 lift and 268@.050
Lobe seperation calls for only 105. Believe I would do 108.
My opinion: I beleive the HP numbers could be real given the flow numbers provided are accurate if the ported cylinder head was used.
No worries there Fiat, the ported flow numbers have repeatedly been proven to repeatedly be repeatable, no mattter how many times the flow testing was repeated on various flow benches for the sake of proven repeatable repeatbility. I repeat...:D
LO
p.s. Yes, these numbers have been verified on several benches accross the country (same heads/several flow benches). 1000+ HP 440 BBF; looks good, Guys...

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
The torque motor 4.420 bore, 4.140 stroke with 6.800 rod and the ported dove numbers. 9.5 to 1, 2.19 valve and a 1.72 exhaust. Standard 2/2 chart for the dove with this one.
Oops, I guess we both missed it on this one, Fiat:rolleyes: ...Blown did in fact specify the "2/2" ported D0VE's on the torque motor as well...maybe the word "standard" threw us off to think "unported"? Why don't you run that torque motor through the program again with the ported heads@STD (2/2) D0VE cross section? I'm curious too. Thanks. :p
LO

[Fiat48]

Lakes...actually I chose the first head on the chart....then noticed it was the stock unported head. I started to abort and use the flowed head....but thought doing it this way would drive home to everyone who reads this thread:
It's all about cylinder heads.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Lakes...actually I chose the first head on the chart....then noticed it was the stock unported head. I started to abort and use the flowed head....but thought doing it this way would drive home to everyone who reads this thread:
It's all about cylinder heads.
Thanks Fiat, one question thou, why is the .050 duration so big on the low rpm motor and the opposite on the higher rpm motor?
And dang it I cant see the charts, my settings are screwed up, Lakes can you email them to me agian?? thanks.

[Fiat48]

Both motors were designed for 6000. That's what you wanted. The (?) after 6000 on the alky deal was my way of saying you can do more.
Duration big on the unblown because BIG UNBLOWN.
Duration small on Blown because...small motor blown. 15 lbs of boost waiting to get in. Why hold the doors open longer? You just need to fill the cylinder.
Wise man once said "You make no power while valves are open."

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Both motors were designed for 6000. That's what you wanted. The (?) after 6000 on the alky deal was my way of saying you can do more.
Duration big on the unblown because BIG UNBLOWN.
Duration small on Blown because...small motor blown. 15 lbs of boost waiting to get in. Why hold the doors open longer? You just need to fill the cylinder.
Wise man once said "You make no power while valves are open."
Wery interesting, I would have thought the exact opposite, this has been a real learning experiance, thank you very much for you time and effort.;)

[Blown 472]

Since we are talking blown cams too, what do you think about my isky
547 lift 256 intake
555 lift 265 exhaust on a 114
Since I have to recam you think I should look at some thing different? I do run 10 to 12 psi in this 440 dodge
this is close to where I am flow wise in the dodge
lift----in/ex
.100--63.9/55.2
.200-140.0/106.2
.300-197.6/145.5
.350-216.3/161.2
.400-227.5/173.4
.450-238.7/181.8
.500-243.5/185.5
.550-246.7/189.1
.600-248.3/190.3
.650-249.9/192.8
the bore and stroke is 4.320 and 3.75 with a 7.7 to 1 static.

[Fiat48]

Back to the drawing board.
Torque motor with ported heads@STD (2/2) D0VE
Head spec at .500 lift 307/195
Still trying to get 100% Ve and 110% TE
Camshaft called for:
Intake .685 lift and 254@.050 duration
Exhaust .650 lift and 268 duration
Still calling for 105 L/S

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Since we are talking blown cams too, what do you think about my isky
547 lift 256 intake
555 lift 265 exhaust on a 114
Since I have to recam you think I should look at some thing different? I do run 10 to 12 psi in this 440
The plots of where the cam open at all the various lifts is critical. That's the big deal about the cam program. Just because you might have a camshaft that is what the program calls for at .050 lift...does not mean it has the same duration the program requires at .400 (or other) lifts. Kimosavee?
To match the cam program I had to have camshafts ground to be sure all plots were what the program wanted. Did it work? Yes.
In other words...say you got a cam that happens to be 254/268 @ .050 and about the .670 lift range. It will be close and I am sure ballpark of power one might be looking for..but not the same unless it plots with the program. Program is trying to fill the cylinder with known factors specified. Can't cheat it.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
Since we are talking blown cams too, what do you think about my isky
547 lift 256 intake
555 lift 265 exhaust on a 114
Since I have to recam you think I should look at some thing different? I do run 10 to 12 psi in this 440 dodge
this is close to where I am flow wise in the dodge
lift----in/ex
.100--63.9/55.2
.200-140.0/106.2
.300-197.6/145.5
.350-216.3/161.2
.400-227.5/173.4
.450-238.7/181.8
.500-243.5/185.5
.550-246.7/189.1
.600-248.3/190.3
.650-249.9/192.8
the bore and stroke is 4.320 and 3.75 with a 7.7 to 1 static.
need rpm.

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
need rpm.
I shift at 6500 rpm.
So with the plots is that where the low lift flows come into play? I am going to reread my isky book and digest everything I have read today as it is late and my head is spinning, I hope to continue this at length tomorrow if you dont mind.:)

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Fiat48
need rpm.
Ok..6500 shift.
440 inches
698 hp at 6500
594 ft lbs at 4333 rpm
3.308 Intake port area required
1.5 rockers as I remember
Intake lift .722 Duration 258@.050
Exhaust lift .685 Duration 256 @ .050
112 L/S
Throw the pistons away and make it 12 to 1.
Hp= 1089 at 6500 rpm
torque is 1019.5 at 4333 rpm (that should break trans nicely)
same exact cylinder heads and flow numbers
Camshaft required:
Intake .722 lift and 258@ .050 duration
Exhaust .685 lift and 266 @ .050
Add 100 HP for alcohol and you can see why it is said " Gasoline is for washing parts."

[Blown 472]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Ok..6500 shift.
440 inches
698 hp at 6500
594 ft lbs at 4333 rpm
3.308 Intake port area required
1.5 rockers as I remember
Intake lift .722 Duration 258@.050
Exhaust lift .685 Duration 256 @ .050
112 L/S
Throw the pistons away and make it 12 to 1.
Hp= 1089 at 6500 rpm
torque is 1019.5 at 4333 rpm (that should break trans nicely)
same exact cylinder heads and flow numbers
Camshaft required:
Intake .722 lift and 258@ .050 duration
Exhaust .685 lift and 266 @ .050
Add 100 HP for alcohol and you can see why it is said " Gasoline is for washing parts."
This cam is bigger then the 440 ford due to the lower flow numbers and the smaller port area and lower boost, right????

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Fiat48
Lakes...actually I chose the first head on the chart....then noticed it was the stock unported head....but thought doing it this way would drive home to everyone who reads this thread:
It's all about cylinder heads.
Indeed it is, indeed it is...good call.
Another example: when I rebuilt my jet boat motor, I used the very same cam and lifters, same piston brand and part number, etc. No changes to the bottom end other than a freshening. The heads, though, were wildy ported and I went from single for to two-fours, thru-transom to OT Headers, etc.
The Results: WAS 420HP; IS 580HP. Same displacement, cam and c/r.
It's all about cylinder heads.
LO

[LakesOnly]

Originally posted by Blown 472
...I cant see the charts, my settings are screwed up, Lakes can you email them to me agian?? thanks.
They're on their way...
LO

[058]

Regarding the stock 460 heads alot of people have asked why Ford made such a fu*ked up exhaust port when the intakes are almost a work of art. They did the bad ex. port to create turbulance to mix fresh air from the air injection with the exhaust for a cleaner exhaust emission and the bad port location [low] was for chassis clearance as the chassis engineers had more clout than the engine guys. Just thought ya might want to know.

[Fiat48]

Originally posted by Blown 472
This cam is bigger then the 440 ford due to the lower flow numbers and the smaller port area and lower boost, right????
Yes.
Kinda amazing to go from 698 hp to 1089 hp just by changing the compression from 7.7 to 1 to 12 to 1, never turn any more rpm and only have to add 10 degrees of duration to the exhaust pattern of the cam. 391 Hp gain. If we threw in 10% for alcohol fuel...that would be a 500 Hp gain.
Old alky sure lets you do amazing stuff.
Kindsvater flat......are you reading this? :) I was wondering about you making your own fuel. An ethanol powered Blown Flat? :D

[Blown 472]

Thanks for the info Fiat.
Oh yeah Kflat, put a hat on that puppy and run some alky and go out and kick ass on them chivvys.:p

[Fiat48]

Noodling of the torque motor.
What I have done here is to try to tweak as much as I could out of the motor design and still be limited to 9.5 compression and 6000 RPM. Using the ported Ford DOVE-C STD 2/2 cylinder head and assuming that intake port restriction area is close to 4.00 which I believe it would be.
I use 29.5 as corrected barometer as it is closer to real world than 29.92.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374Ford1-med.JPG
In the photo below, pay no attention to deck height, pin height, rod stroke. All other numbers are real.
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374Ford2-med.JPG
Don't know if it will fit in the motor and clear...but here's your door openings:
http://www.***boat.com/image_center/data/520/374Ford3-med.JPG