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As you know, I was at Westech today. ( Steve, thanks a ton. You are the man!) The motor is broke in and tuned up.
I talked to High Flow Dynamics (Lakes Only) last year about a pump gas motor for my boat. I asked him if he could build a 700 HP pump gas motor that was not a maintenance nightmare. He said he could do it.
Well, HE DID, and boy did he. I have my pump gas 700HP motor.
I could not belive the pulls. The motor sounds like its screaming. I was screaming too, but I was screaming for Mommy! LOL
I will get some Video of it up after dinner. I just poured a stiff cocktail and gonna wind down.
Thanks agian Paul.
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Awesome, can't wait to see the video of another awesome Ford:D
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Congrats dude...good to see another stout Ford out in the world. You notice more and more people going with the BBF. Also, you have my props, you could have taken the easy way out and built a BBC, but you chose to gut it and start fresh...nice job.
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Sweet hell yeah! Let's hear some engine specs, and what RPM and torque numbers!
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Congrats.Dyno days are fun.
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Congrats dan. Now get it in and get your ass to the river.
Cy
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Way to Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Now bring it up north and introduce it to us:eek:
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I talked to High Flow Dynamics (Lakes Only) last year about a pump gas motor for my boat. I asked him if he could build a 700 HP pump gas motor that was not a maintenance nightmare. He said he could do it.
Well, HE DID, and boy did he. I have my pump gas 700HP motor.
I could not believe the pulls. The motor sounds like its screaming.
Thanks again Paul.Hey Herc, glad you're pleased with the build ;)
A great deal of planning and mockup went into your engine (much more than our usual combinations) and it paid off. "700HP / Pump gas / Low Maintenance" is a bit of a tall order, one of which many would reply, "you want the best of both worlds--impossible!" It's not 100% impossible, but a carefully planned combination is paramount. In fact I knew the build would be challenging, but I wouldn't have taken the order had I felt we couldn't deliver satisfactorily.
There will be preventive maintenance, of course, but I think it has been minmized..especially considering the combination.
Funny that you say "the motor sounds like it's screaming," I've always thought that a strong running Ford has this characteristic sound...as though it's angry. :devil:
Didn't come up short on the intended HP numbers and also didn't wildy overshoot them either--and in my mind overshooting is not as impressive as hitting target.
Enjoy,
LO
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I am uploading Vid now. :D
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Sweet hell yeah! Let's hear some engine specs, and what RPM and torque numbers!
As far as I'm concerned, Dan can post whatever secrets he pleases; it's his engine afterall. :) I just wish to add one tidbit of thought:
I have noticed as of late that when somebody posts their engine build, another might come along and say that their engine has similar parts but makes more power. Gee, that's great and all, but that's your engine and what you wanted to get out of your build.
Herc wanted 700HP, and that's what shot for. Yes, the overall combination could certainly support hella more, but this is not what the customer wanted and we would have missed our mark on the build if we shot for bigger numbers. One thing that we absolutely will not do is exploit a customer's engine build, his hard-earned money, etcetera, and use it as an excersize for us to show off max HP capability with said parts at the customer's expense. That is not sincere to the customer's needs. Our builds will always be a direct response to a customer's request, which in this case was 700HP / pump gas / reliable. If we want to build a godawful monster and impress the living crap out of everybody, we'll do that on our dime (unless that's exactly what the customer wants).
I mentioned elsewhere that if this engine generated more than 5% above target, I'd truly be embarrassed (almost as much as coming up short in HP). Well, we are barely within that margin...although I admit that I still feel there is more HP on the table. But I digress...the important thing here is that Herc got the numbers that he wanted.
:)
LO
p.s.: One last important thing, some props: Due to the "big HP number on pump gas" nature of this build, I elected the consultation of Chris Straub (cstraub69) when it came time to profle a camshaft. Chris ground a cam that suited the build perfectly. The cam profile was pretty close to what I estimated, but not exact to what I estimated, and Chris' cam profile hit the number like hitting a bullseye...which means that my presumed grind would not have been as exact. Thanks Chris. http://www.fordforums.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
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I am uploading Vid now. :D
Or you could just post the sheet;) Good job with the build, now get that bad boy on the water:D :D
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover
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Here is a clip. I think its pritty big. I will work on another when I get home.
did not work!!
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p.s.: One last important thing, some props: Due to the "big HP number on pump gas" nature of this build, I elected the consultation of Chris Straub (cstraub69) when it came time to profle a camshaft. Chris ground a cam that suited the build perfectly. The cam profile was pretty close to what I estimated, but not exact to what I estimated, and Chris' cam profile hit the number like hitting a bullseye...which means that my presumed grind would not have been as exact. Thanks Chris. http://www.fordforums.com/images/smilies/thumbsup.gif
Paul it was a pleasure. It's working with guys like you that make my job what it is. . . a blast. I hope DanHercules is happy with the engine powerband. I am anxious to hear how throttle responsive this BBF was. Having dones several BT headed Fords, I am always amazed at the power these 500 inchers will make with these heads.
Looking forward to seeing the dyno sheet.
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Chris, I know there's no comparison between the Blue Thunders and Edelbrocks, but have you done a 500+ in. BBF with the Ebrocks?
Looking to rebuild mine soon as a stroker and would reuse my heads. Maybe not the best, but it's what I have.
I'd like to get a recommendation/cam from you and can shoot you my current specs?
Personally I like the way Dan went after his "target" and I'm not necessarily looking for the big numbers so much as the pump gas and reliable deal. In addition I'd add that having the horsepower at a usable rpm range is really the key for me. I could care less if it makes more horsepower, but it doesn't come in until 7000 rpm.
Anxious to see some numbers (dyno sheet).
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Reminds me of when Lamborghini first started...he requested a V12 engine that made "X" amount of power. Then he said, now detune it so it lasts...the potential is there but with more reliability than a mega horse job...
Congrats :D
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Chris, I know there's no comparison between the Blue Thunders and Edelbrocks, but have you done a 500+ in. BBF with the Ebrocks?
Looking to rebuild mine soon as a stroker and would reuse my heads. Maybe not the best, but it's what I have.
I'd like to get a recommendation/cam from you and can shoot you my current specs?
Personally I like the way Dan went after his "target" and I'm not necessarily looking for the big numbers so much as the pump gas and reliable deal. In addition I'd add that having the horsepower at a usable rpm range is really the key for me. I could care less if it makes more horsepower, but it doesn't come in until 7000 rpm.
Anxious to see some numbers (dyno sheet).
Squirtcha,
No problem with the Ebrocks making good useable power. Drop me a PM and I will be more then happy to work with you on a cam.
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Here is a clip. I think its pritty big. I will work on another when I get home.
Dyno pull. (http://media.putfile.com/BBF-528-dyno-run)
I tried to watch it three times. It has locked up my browser every single time. I am on a T1 too, it must be huge.
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Try this one.
Its smaller, so you cannot read the screen. :mad:
Dyno pull (http://media.putfile.com/BBF-528)
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very nice Dan. What was your rpm range?
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What do ya mean by RPM range? :confused:
I can tell ya about oil pressure!!! Makin 80 all around with the HFD prepped oil pump!!
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what was the max hp, and at what rpm?
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I can tell ya about oil pressure!!! Makin 80 psi all around with the HFD prepped oil pump!!The stable oil pressure is a big plus that comes from the block oiling mods in conjuction with the Stage 1 prepped pump. Of course, the rest of the oiling system can have a major influence on pressure and needs to be working harmoniously in order for the oil pressure to be maintained, but the narrow range in overall pressure is something that I've always found pleasing with the block mods and Stage 1 oil pump combo.
Some of the key mods in our oil pumps play multiple roles in improving certain oiling characteristics, and one of the benefits is the narrow, consistent pressure range. Another mod both reduces oil pump drag and another stabilizes distributor timing.
I'm not going to go into every little detail on the pump mods that we do, but for the purposes of illustrating the modification efforts, I'll display one of the features. Look at the pictures below.
The first picture is of an oem Ford specification Melling stock replacement oil pump, NOT the high volume M84DHV. Notice that the pump's exit gallery is mostly blocked off by the bypass piston protruding into the exit gallery (left side of gerotor cavity):
Stock Spec Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...mellingoem.jpg
That's a stock spec 460 pump above. Now, the M84DHV has a taller gerotor and therefore moves a greater volume of oil. Therefore in the M84DHV, the bypass piston has been extended somewhat further away from the pump's exit gallery so as to reduce its obstruction and allow more oil flow:
M84DHV Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...ing2before.jpg
Now, look below at this feature in one of our modified pumps:
Modified Melling M84DHV Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...gmod2after.jpg
Note in the above photo that the bypass piston is installed and yet in no way does it obstruct oil flow as the oil exits the pump. That's how an oil pump's exit gallery should look on the inside.
(Important note: The above photo shows this single modification while still "in process" and not the finished product, after all other mods elsewhere, chamfering, blending, cleaning, etc.)
I dare consider that the modifications of our oil pumps reduce HP loss complared to an unmodified one, and possibly versus an unmodified oem standard volume pump. Further, our pumps potentially improve/add HP by way of one of their featured mod's that also stabilizes distributor timing which we all know results in better power. And finally, they can deliver more oil which is great for high load engines.
It is this kind of detail that was applied throughout Herc's engine, and so far we've only talked about (part of) his oil pump. ;)
LO
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what was the max hp, and at what rpm?
Max RPM was at 6400.
Our goal was to spin at 6200 RPM, in the boat. At 6200 RPM I made 4 less HP than I did hat 6400. :D :D :D WAY TO GO HFD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...sheet-med.JPGq
:D :D :D :DThe numbers are pleasing; also, I'm afraid there's still more HP in it. Due to some top end oiling debugging from the start of the day, some valve train parts were changed out for the sake of getting to the pulls, and the replacement parts installed by the facility--I feel certain--cost the top end about 11-14 HP. Additionally due to the time constraints, trials of carb spacers were never evaluated and I think we might have found abouther 9-12 HP there (the posted results are without a plenum-increasing carb spacer). In other words, this engine could have conceivably generated about 760 peak horsepower on pump gas. I realize this goes against our goal of hitting absolute target, but as good as the recorded numbers are, I just know from lots of personal experience that there is another 25HP or so in the longblock in its current configuration.
Bottom line is, when the day was over and Herc had his 700+HP, he felt there was no need to search for any more.
Also, I wish to emphasize the fact(s) that this engine recorded 737HP with a very conservative 9.8:1 compression ratio and one carburetor. :D
LO
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The numbers are pleasing; also, I'm afraid there's still more HP in it. Due to some top end oiling debugging from the start of the day, some valve train parts were changed out for the sake of getting to the pulls, and the replacement parts installed by the facility--I feel certain--cost the top end about 11-14 HP. Additionally due to the time constraints, trials of carb spacers were never evaluated and I think we might have found abouther 9-12 HP there (the posted results are without a plenum-increasing carb spacer). In other words, this engine could have conceivably generated about 760 peak horsepower on pump gas. I realize this goes against our goal of hitting absolute target, but as good as the recorded numbers are, I just know from lots of personal experience that there is another 25HP or so in the longblock in its current configuration.
Bottom line is, when the day was over and Herc had his 700+HP, he felt there was no need to search for any more.
Also, I wish to emphasize the fact(s) that this engine recorded 737HP with a very conservative 9.8:1 compression ratio and one carburetor. :D
LO
Paul,
Also note the torque band. We cant say for sure since the recording of the pull starts at 4600 but the torque band is very flat only loosing 5% of peak by 5900 rpm. . .1300 rpm on the topside of the power curve and still has over 600#/ft at 6200. This thing should pull like a freight train....
Chris
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Nice...when we going to Elsinore:D
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What's up Dan? Congrats on the #'s. Sounds like a good solid BBF. You Amy Melinda and I need to get together for some cocktails. Tow up to Mead and we'll hang.
Trav
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Paul,
Also note the torque band. We cant say for sure since the recording of the pull starts at 4600 but the torque band is very flat only loosing 5% of peak by 5900 rpm. . .1300 rpm on the topside of the power curve and still has over 600#/ft at 6200. This thing should pull like a freight train....
ChrisYeah, no doubt. ;)
I'm sure others observed this on the spec sheet above as well, but for those that wish to have clarification I put together a clear picture of what Straub is talking about:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...HPTQ_Chart.jpg
The red line is increasing HP as rpm's go up; the blue line depicts the flat-as-hell torque band. Note that the chart's scale ranges from 4600-6500 rpm only and the torque has essentially levelled off at 4600-4800 and ju-u-u-u-st started to ever so lightly decend. So, if we extrapolate backwards from 4600 rpm and below, it's painfully obvious that there's a HUGE story to be told powerwise in the lesser rpms. I would loved to have had this data captured at the facility; their reasoning for dismissing low rpm evaluation is due to the jet boat application of the engine; my reason for wanting it is, of course, to study the overall usable power of the engine.
This ain't no single-sided peaky-ass HP motor. :)
LO
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Yeah, no doubt. ;)
I'm sure others observed this on the spec sheet above as well, but for those that wish to have clarification I put together a clear picture of what Straub is talking about:
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...HPTQ_Chart.jpg
. I would loved to have had this data captured at the facility; their reasoning for dismissing low rpm evaluation is due to the jet boat application of the engine; my reason for wanting it is, of course, to study the overall usable power of the engine.
This ain't no single-sided peaky-ass HP motor. :)
LO
Ditto that. It's a shame it wasn't pulled from a lower RPM. Reguardless of the intended application , when it was obvious that at 4600 was the peak trq. # how do you know what, or more importantly where the max trq. number is. Love that 672 trq. # though regardless as to where it is, that's a stump puller ; or in this case an impeller puller. What impeller does Dan plan on running with it?
While you're there you might as well find out what the numbers are.
Does anyone know the spec's on this engine other than 9.8:1 and Blue Thunder Heads ? Bore, Stroke maybe?
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover
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Ditto that. It should have been pulled from a lower rpm. Reguardless of the intended application , when it was obvious that at 4600 was the peak trq. # how do you know what, or more importantly where the max trq. number is.
While you're there you might as well find out.
Does anyone know the spec's on this engine other than 9.8:1 and Blue Thunder Heads ? Bore, Stroke maybe?
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover
I can tell you that. Its a 528 CU. Bore is 4.42 and stroke is 4.30.
ANY OTHER MOTOR INFO PLEASE CONTACT HIGH FLOW DYNAMICS (Lakes Only)
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I can tell you that. Its a 528 CU. Bore is 4.42 and stroke is 4.30.
ANY OTHER MOTOR INFO PLEASE CONTACT HIGH FLOW DYNAMICS (Lakes Only)
I did an edit on my post read it again please. Great numbers Dan. How far out til you get it in the water?
Sleeper CP
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Ditto that. It's a shame it wasn't pulled from a lower RPM. Reguardless of the intended application , when it was obvious that at 4600 was the peak trq. # how do you know what, or more importantly where the max trq. number is. Love that 672 trq. # though regardless as to where it is, that's a stump puller ; or in this case an impeller puller. What impeller does Dan plan on running with it?
While you're there you might as well find out what the numbers are.
Does anyone know the spec's on this engine other than 9.8:1 and Blue Thunder Heads ? Bore, Stroke maybe?
Sleeper CP
565" Ford Lover
dan if you look at the other pulls on you disc, i'm sure there's a pull down in the 3,500 rpm range, maybe even 2,500 rpm. Its pretty common to not tug a max effort race engine down that low on the dyno because that's not where that type of motor lives, but i'd be surprised if Steve didn't make a pull that low with yours.
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Congrats on the motor and nice numbers to match. Maybe one day Ill run my Hallett down to Elsinore and play with some of you guys
