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I was reading 396_Z and Circlejerk's comments in another post, and instead of asking there, I started another.
I'm planning on an engine for this 18LP (18' low profile) Raysoncraft flat in the not-too-distant future, and since I'm not into building a rocketship this time, your comments got my interest about the feasibility of a 396/402 in this application. The Casale has 22% gears, 9deg strut, Velvet Drive, etc. and it's a heavy layup. I've already got the waterpump, camcover, Dooley pan, exhaust, distributor etc for a MkIV.
I'm wondering if I'm right to believe that this engine is cheaper to obtain than a 427/454 MkIV as a core/rebuilder, especially in this area of the US. Whaddya think?? $400 complete? Where should this come in at?b
So what would you guys suggest as far as the block I should look for? 2bolt vs 4bolt vs aftermarket 4bolt conversion? Cast vs Forged vs Aftermarket forged crank? Rods? Heads? Induction? (would kinda like some WoW factor to the carb setup :D )
I'm going to the SEMA show in Vegas in November, so I'll get to see/talk to folks from Holley/Edelbrock and others there, too. Ought to be fun...anybody else going? See ya there.
Let your thoughts flow, guys. I'm listening. Could help some other fellas, too.
DaveA
Raysoncrafter
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hey the 402 was a mess up at the factory 71 thur 74 i belive i have two complete 402s at .030 over with all the good stuff in them one is in my boat and one is a spare i am now building a 454 i will sell one for 1500.00 it has about 10 hours run time let me know if it will help tim 540.427.2090
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What we were more talking about was the heads and thats where your power gains will be the greatest. Any big block will work for your application, I'd just go with what I found and call it good.
When you go to rebuild it, if you do get a 396/402, is a mild cam in a 454 is a fairly stout cam in a 396. Displacement seems to calm a camshaft down so do go with some monster cam that revs to 9k rpm's. 2 bolt mains are fine and any crank in good shape will do, your not going to be punishing it like a racer would.
With the set up I have in my Camaro engine (9.7:1cr, mild head work, Comp Cams XE274H) it's been estimated at 425 hp from several sources and Desktop Dyno, I know I still have some room to improve on that if I wanted to get serious.
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DaveA:
I was reading 396_Z and Circlejerk's comments in another post, and instead of asking there, I started another.
I'm planning on an engine for this 18LP (18' low profile) Raysoncraft flat in the not-too-distant future, and since I'm not into building a rocketship this time, your comments got my interest about the feasibility of a 396/402 in this application. The Casale has 22% gears, 9deg strut, Velvet Drive, etc. and it's a heavy layup. I've already got the waterpump, camcover, Dooley pan, exhaust, distributor etc for a MkIV.
I'm wondering if I'm right to believe that this engine is cheaper to obtain than a 427/454 MkIV as a core/rebuilder, especially in this area of the US. Whaddya think?? $400 complete? Where should this come in at?b
So what would you guys suggest as far as the block I should look for? 2bolt vs 4bolt vs aftermarket 4bolt conversion? Cast vs Forged vs Aftermarket forged crank? Rods? Heads? Induction? (would kinda like some WoW factor to the carb setup :D )
I'm going to the SEMA show in Vegas in November, so I'll get to see/talk to folks from Holley/Edelbrock and others there, too. Ought to be fun...anybody else going? See ya there.
Let your thoughts flow, guys. I'm listening. Could help some other fellas, too.
DaveA
RaysoncrafterHey Dave,
Lets see some pics of the hull. My dad has a '69 Rayson Craft LP. He's the original owner.
ssmike
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DaveA I had a 402 BB Chev with Velvet Drive in my 1965 Miller. It was just a 2 bolt main with steel crank, oval port heads machined for larger valves and ported. Pistons were 10 1/2:1 TRW's, cam Crower .546/.541 lift 284/310 duration. Carburation was 2 660's on a Edelbrock tunnel ram. Ingnition Accel dual point. I could turn 5600 RPM. Prop was 12X13 3 blade, not sure what % on the V-Drive. I was not fastest boat on the water but not the slowest either. I ran this set up for 16 years with no problems. I wish I still had this boat, but the family got bigger with the grandkids so I had to sell and buy a V-Drive mini cruiser. BTW the cruiser has a 396 with Velvet drive. I say go for the 402 build for reliability and enjoy.......
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I had a 1970 El Camino SS396 with a 402 , Chevy went from the 396 to the 402 in order to keep it smog exempt [new smog reg's for that year]
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A few years ago I built a 396 with cast pistons to run on pump gas. It wasn't enough to push the Bezer into the sweet spot, but in a heavier hull with less rocker it should do fine for ski duty. The same engine was in a homemade 16' flat when it pulled six skiers out of a deep water start on slalom skis! Sold it for $1500 to break even.
Eric
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DaveA; No one has mentioned $$$$. BBC stuff is almost cheaper than small blk when it comes to boat hardware. The 406, 30over 10.5-1 race motor in BBS's boat cost me 1500 with hyd cam and HEI. Chuck Neuton 750 carb with tm2 edelbrock would cost $800. So from a cost prospective, this is cheap horsepower which will turn an 18 gear and ll" prop 6000 rpm which is in the 80's with a 700 pound hull! And,most important, do it all day! without 4 bolt mains! and 92 octane pump gasoline! Jerkover :rolleyes:
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Wow!
Thanks for all the input, folks! I'll try to address your comments with mine:
Tim, you're close enuf for me to consider if there's nothing closer to home. Thanks for the offer.
396Z, good advice about the cam- stands to reason. I wouldn't be that aggressive there, anyway.
SSMike, this hull ain't pretty right now. It's about half stripped of several coats of paint, down to the spiderwebbed gelcoat on the upper deck along the gunwales. I've got some serious hull work to go- gotta replace the bottom coring between the stringers- a common Rayson problem it seems. Got about 50% of it dug out, 'glass tanks removed (boy did the core ever reek of GAS!) and the hardware out. If I can, I'm gonna take some digital pix this weekend.
Boatski, thanks for the specs and your experiences with it. Sounds like the road I'm wanting to go down. I may have questions as I get more involved in the powerplant end.
Flatracer, your comments are encouraging too. Thats typical of the performance I'd need, even tho I've already got the ski/wakeboarding tractor that gets a workout around here.
And last, but not least, CJerk! You're one busy guy when it comes to flatties in the NW! Thanks for keeping us all up to date. Re: your 396, again, encouraging information if I find a deal on one. Fortunately I have all the hardware for installation, I just will need the big lump of iron to bolt it all onto. I'll bet the key to your success was proper carburation, too.
Five star replys, everyone!
DaveA
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I have a 402 in my 66 Stevens. I have run it for the last three years. TRW forged pistons,steel crank, and oval port heads. The boat will run 68 on a GPS at 5200 rpm,s. :D
