Dec. 21, 2005
Hello everyone,
:argue:
Just wanted to say that the track records in blown gas jet is Going Down in a couple of rounds.
"Working out those small critters"
Fired up today and its on
Willis
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Dec. 21, 2005
Hello everyone,
:argue:
Just wanted to say that the track records in blown gas jet is Going Down in a couple of rounds.
"Working out those small critters"
Fired up today and its on
Willis
Sounds good, Willis. Knock 'em dead! :crossx:
"What's in the cup, sir?" :p
That is what I am talkin about. :) :rollside:
:) Go get em Willis.
Sounds like a man with a plan!! :idea:
What's the current record?
How do you plan on breaking the record which is 7.62 @ 147.03 MPH when you have an open cockpit boat that is limited to 145 MPH? Your best run from the last race was 8.8 @ 116, no disrespect implied but do you honostly think that you can shave that much time off your ET and add that much MPH by adding a screwcharger? I also don't think that you will be turning that screwcharger fast enough to really see any benefits anyhow, do you plan on making over 40 lbs of boost on that blown gasser? I am aware it takes less HP to turn them and with less friction you gain a cooler charge, but you had a superchiller and you weren't turning that small roots at a high overdrive to rob any power. I just don't see where any significant gains can be made to scrub off over a second on the ET and add over 30 MPH to the top end.
If I am wrong so be it, more power to you. But this is discussion forum, so lay it out for everyone, maybe we all might learn something.
How do you plan on breaking the record which is 7.62 @ 147.03 MPH when you have an open cockpit boat that is limited to 145 MPH? Your best run from the last race was 8.8 @ 116, no disrespect implied but do you honostly think that you can shave that much time off your ET and add that much MPH by adding a screwcharger? I also don't think that you will be turning that screwcharger fast enough to really see any benefits anyhow, do you plan on making over 40 lbs of boost on that blown gasser? I am aware it takes less HP to turn them and with less friction you gain a cooler charge, but you had a superchiller and you weren't turning that small roots at a high overdrive to rob any power. I just don't see where any significant gains can be made to scrub off over a second on the ET and add over 30 MPH to the top end.
If I am wrong so be it, more power to you. But this is discussion forum, so lay it out for everyone, maybe we all might learn something.
kill joy :rollside: lol
How do you plan on breaking the record which is 7.62 @ 147.03 MPH when you have an open cockpit boat that is limited to 145 MPH? Your best run from the last race was 8.8 @ 116, no disrespect implied but do you honostly think that you can shave that much time off your ET and add that much MPH by adding a screwcharger? I also don't think that you will be turning that screwcharger fast enough to really see any benefits anyhow, do you plan on making over 40 lbs of boost on that blown gasser? I am aware it takes less HP to turn them and with less friction you gain a cooler charge, but you had a superchiller and you weren't turning that small roots at a high overdrive to rob any power. I just don't see where any significant gains can be made to scrub off over a second on the ET and add over 30 MPH to the top end.
If I am wrong so be it, more power to you. But this is discussion forum, so lay it out for everyone, maybe we all might learn something.
Dan Nelson ran 7.20's at Ming with a PSI,and Jim Sampica Ran 7.20's at
Red Bluff with the same motor,so I don't see a problem with what Willis is saying.
As far as the MPH,I don't think Willis has a MPH LIMITER installed on his boat.
:argue: :cool:
Dan Nelson ran &.20's at Ming with a PSI,and Jim Sampica Ran 7.20's at
Red Bluff with the same motor,so I don't see a problem with what Willis is saying.
As far as the MPH,I don't think Willis has a MPH LIMITER installed on his boat.
:argue: :cool:
I didn't say that it was never or couldn't be done, I am saying that just by changing superchargers in this application it is doubtful to see that much of a performance gain. As you know, PSI chargers have the potential to make a significant amount of boost, don't you think that the internal components of the engine have to be updated to take advantage of the higher boost capabilities, especially on a blown gasser. To name drop and say it has been done is a weak argument, I am sure that their engine combinations were built around the high boost capabilites of the PSI. So what your saying is to take an engine built for 10 lbs of boost then throw 40+ lbs of boost at it and run the number.
Thanks for all your help last saturday Willis, and good luck with the new set up.
Great to hear its up and running Willis.Go for it!!! :crossx:
Whats the difference in a roots and screw blowers?
Dan Nelson ran 7.20's at Ming with a PSI,and Jim Sampica Ran 7.20's at
Red Bluff with the same motor,so I don't see a problem with what Willis is saying.
As far as the MPH,I don't think Willis has a MPH LIMITER installed on his boat.
:argue: :cool:
i remember dan running a best of 7.40 at ming in november of '00 with a much heavier stealth than willis has. if i recall correctly, dan said he had that thing turned way up over 40. jim ran 7.50s at red bluff, which was below dan's ihba best of 7.62 that he ran at chow. harold had the njba record a long long time ago at 7.45.
to think it's "not possible" for willis to run quicker than 7.62 is a little short sighted, simply because he has had his problems and had it turned down at the last race. willis has proven he ain't no quitter, he has his eyes on the prize, and yes, he has the equipment to better the 7.62. all he has to do is do it.
I think more boost,less heat and it takes less power to turn.
the last time i checked the blown gas jet record was held by an eliminator at 139 MPH. 147 mph wow! when was this done and what kind of boat did the deed? i assume the 147 mph was done with a PSI blower?
I didn't say that it was never or couldn't be done, I am saying that just by changing superchargers in this application it is doubtful to see that much of a performance gain. As you know, PSI chargers have the potential to make a significant amount of boost, don't you think that the internal components of the engine have to be updated to take advantage of the higher boost capabilities, especially on a blown gasser. To name drop and say it has been done is a weak argument, I am sure that their engine combinations were built around the high boost capabilites of the PSI. So what your saying is to take an engine built for 10 lbs of boost then throw 40+ lbs of boost at it and run the number.
It all depends on how strong you rods/pistons are.Willis should have NO Problems.All Dan did was to buy a PSI to run the numbers,with alot of help from Tommy Papp.They both have the same boat EDGE.Jim Sampica had a Papp/Cheyenne.Willis can DO IT.He has the best parts money can buy.
to think it's "not possible" for willis to run quicker than 7.62 is a little short sighted, simply because he has had his problems and had it turned down at the last race.
You say he had it turned down for the last race, funny, because that was the fastest time posted for the entire year. I am not bagging on Willis, he is not a quiter, I would just like to see some facts that back up his statement.
You say he had it turned down for the last race, funny, because that was the fastest time posted for the entire year. I am not bagging on Willis, he is not a quiter, I would just like to see some facts that back up his statement.
Dude set a goal for himself.Let it go.I better not say I'm running my 21 in BGJ in 06.I might get railed.
the last time i checked the blown gas jet record was held by an eliminator at 139 MPH. 147 mph wow! when was this done and what kind of boat did the deed? i assume the 147 mph was done with a PSI blower?
The NJBA Blown Gas Jet record is retired at 147.03 MPH,set by Don Harris.
It will take a 141.14 MPH to establish a new record. (with a 1% backup). :cool:
It all depends on how strong you rods/pistons are.Willis should have NO Problems.
There are many factors other than rod/piston strength to account for; fuel system, static compression, cam overlap, etc... He may have the best parts money can buy for 10 lbs of boost, but they weren't designed for 40+ lbs of boost.
The NJBA Blown Gas Jet record is retired at 147.03 MPH,set by Don Harris.
It will take a 141.14 MPH to establish a new record. (with a1% backup). :cool:
what kind of boat was he using and was he using a PSI blower? also how long ago was this done?
Dude set a goal for himself.Let it go.I better not say I'm running my 21 in BGJ in 06.I might get railed.
There is nothing to let go of, this is a discussion forum and they usually work in this manner. Somebody posts something, a discussion follows and information is exchanged. I would just like to see more facts backing up this incredible statement. Like I said earlier, maybe we can learn something from this.
i remember dan running a best of 7.40 at ming in november of '00 with a much heavier stealth than willis has. if i recall correctly, dan said he had that thing turned way up over 40. jim ran 7.50s at red bluff, which was below dan's ihba best of 7.62 that he ran at chow. harold had the njba record a long long time ago at 7.45.
to think it's "not possible" for willis to run quicker than 7.62 is a little short sighted, simply because he has had his problems and had it turned down at the last race. willis has proven he ain't no quitter, he has his eyes on the prize, and yes, he has the equipment to better the 7.62. all he has to do is do it.
Bob
I remember Dan Nelson running 7.20"s at Ming the last year he ran the boat
but they didn"t give him the record because of some B/S. He left pissed off and never came back.It could have been the same year the "BIZ" ran 144.18 MPH in Pro Gas Jet.A november race with real good air and water conditions. :cool:
what kind of boat was he using and was he using a PSI blower? also how long ago was this done?
Don has a Eliminator Daytona with a B/B
Ford engine.It was set over 2 years ago. :cool:
The NJBA Blown Gas Jet record is retired at 147.03 MPH,set by Don Harris.
It will take a 141.14 MPH to establish a new record. (with a1% backup). :cool:
I think it sucks ass that they "retire" records after a peroid of time.
MAJOR slap in the face to the teams that set them.
Just wanted to say that the track records in blown gas jet is Going Down in a couple of rounds.
"Working out those small critters"
I seem to remember listening to someone 3 years ago down here saying that same exact thing ... and he's still "working out the critters".
Good luck Willis ... you have the advantage now ... your hull alone is 300 lbs lighter than Ron's ... not including your lighter equipment. It should be an interesting year for BGJ ...
BigBlockOldsJet ... all I hear is that you keep claiming to know what Willis' engine internals are and what they are capable of ... have you been over at Willis' since the last race? From what I know Willis has the right components ... and it was built with the intention of holding up to big boost numbers ... secondly, Willis has had Tom Papp set up the bottom of that boat and pump to run the same as Frank Nagore's ... for big numbers ... Now he went to PSI directly, boought all of the right parts ... so why the negativity?
We bolted a PSI on Ron Fuentes' 454, which at the time was set up for 15 lbs. of boost, 871 & a bird, steel rods, flat top pistons ... no "special deal" blower package ... picked up 8 tenths right off the bat with a horrible tune up ... ended up with a 1.2 second gain with that motor ... just by changing blower/hat ... so it can be done and has been done by at least 6 other racers in the past (Dan Nelson, Harold Bruce, Don Harris, Jim Sampica, Frank Nagore & Ron Fuentes ... all in that order I believe) ... so why do you have to come out and rain on Willis' parade?
Just thought I would chime in here to be part of your "discussion" which sounds like a lot of negativity instead of support to me.
Again good luck Willis ... again, if you need any more help ... just call.
Brian
I think it sucks ass that they "retire" records after a peroid of time.
MAJOR slap in the face to the teams that set them.
I too didin't agree with that originally ... but after getting involved ... I understand why the "retire" rule is there ...
With the introduction of new safety rules ... the possibility of setting a record sometimes becomes impossible. Perfect example is the 145mph Jet Boat rule ... with Don's BGJ @ 147 and Harold Jr's BFJ @ 155 ... current racers cannot ever beat it ...
I think that there should be a "current record" and of course the real overall record ... which are always there in reality for those of us who saw them make the pass ... that can never be taken away.
I know that I have made the motion during the rules meeting to rid the club of the 2 year limit of records with exception of the ones that were never able to be beat ... and they never got enough support to make it to the ballot ... maybe this year ... but yes, it does suck.
Busby,
Where is there negativity, I asked for a discussion on Willis' intentions and question the reasoning behind the equipment he has upgraded to. Just because someone wants to talk about lofty goals and is not a member of the good ole boys doesn't mean there is any negativity attached. Discussions lead to knowledge transfer, which hopefully makes us all more informed and educated. We have seen the blower swap from a small roots to a PSI screw. One can only make an educated guess by looking at the original small blower setup (top pulley just a bit smaller than the bottom) and come to the conclusion it was not making a lot of boost. Now presumably without any bottom end modifications strapping on a blower that can make in excess of 40 lbs boost does not sound right. I do recall him having issues with burnt pistons in the past. Either the engine tune was really soft to begin with (which doesn't expalin the burnt pistons) or he plans not to turn up the screw charger. If the latter is the case, I don't see where he plans on making up over a full second of ET, my original question.
This is not a witch hunt or a negativity session, I as well as others would like to know how he plans on acheiving his goal. The answers may or may not help myself or others but it could lead to a great discussion.
Busby,
Where is there negativity, I asked for a discussion on Willis' intentions and question the reasoning behind the equipment he has upgraded to. Just because someone wants to talk about lofty goals and is not a member of the good ole boys doesn't mean there is any negativity attached. Discussions lead to knowledge transfer, which hopefully makes us all more informed and educated. We have seen the blower swap from a small roots to a PSI screw. One can only make an educated guess by looking at the original small blower setup (top pulley just a bit smaller than the bottom) and come to the conclusion it was not making a lot of boost. Now presumably without any bottom end modifications strapping on a blower that can make in excess of 40 lbs boost does not sound right. I do recall him having issues with burnt pistons in the past. Either the engine tune was really soft to begin with (which doesn't expalin the burnt pistons) or he plans not to turn up the screw charger. If the latter is the case, I don't see where he plans on making up over a full second of ET, my original question.
It's all good ... one cannot tell the tone of another's typed words ... more than one came on here and read negativity ... that's all ...
I believe that Willis was having a leaned out situation for a number of his engine melt downs ... not a boost problem ... During this build ... he has been speaking to a number of others who have made the change ... there is a lot of behind the scene stuff going on with his build (new flowed fuel system, etc.) He's doing it right ... just prolly dosen't want to post all about it.
Willis has prooven that he's not afraid to melt it down to run a good pass ... I just think he was listening to the wrong people about his set up. My opinion.
You go Willis
It's all good ... one cannot tell the tone of another's typed words ... more than one came on here and read negativity ... that's all ...
I believe that Willis was having a leaned out situation for a number of his engine melt downs ... not a boost problem ... During this build ... he has been speaking to a number of others who have made the change ... there is a lot of behind the scene stuff going on with his build (new flowed fuel system, etc.) He's doing it right ... just prolly dosen't want to post all about it.
Willis has prooven that he's not afraid to melt it down to run a good pass ... I just think he was listening to the wrong people about his set up. My opinion.
It seems that questioning without mal intent for whatever reason still seems to invoke a negativity knee jerk reation.
A leaned out condition could also be classified as a boost problem, too much air (boost) and not enough fuel. Lower the boost and the lean condition suddenly disappears. Or in the case which you noted, keep the same boost and add more fuel. Either way the lean condition is put to rest. To me, if a blown gasser is on the ragged edge with 10-15 lbs of boost, what is going to happen when 40+ lbs of boost added to the equation. I understand that upgrading the fuel system solves many problems, but keeping the same static compression and cam specs with a huge increase in boost could lead to more issues.
It seems that questioning without mal intent for whatever reason still seems to invoke a negativity knee jerk reation.
A leaned out condition could also be classified as a boost problem, too much air (boost) and not enough fuel. Lower the boost and the lean condition suddenly disappears. Or in the case which you noted, keep the same boost and add more fuel. Either way the lean condition is put to rest. To me, if a blown gasser is on the ragged edge with 10-15 lbs of boost, what is going to happen when 40+ lbs of boost added to the equation. I understand that upgrading the fuel system solves many problems, but keeping the same static compression and cam specs with a huge increase in boost could lead to more issues.
IT'S STILL RAINING!!! :220v:
Is Don still racing? I hung around with him in the early 90's. I moved away and lost track of him.I'm glad he got a record,he work so hard at it.He loves those Ford's. :)
Is Don still racing? I hung around with him in the early 90's. I moved away and lost track of him.I'm glad he got a record,he work so hard at it.He loves those Ford's. :)
Don bought a new '25 Daytona ... he and his wife Laura are having fun motoringaround lakes now-a-days ... I speak to him often, this year he was building a new 30x60 shop/barn at his home in Napa ...
He is planning on coming back every now & then to kick some tail ... he's got that thing dialed ... 7.70's all day long ... high 7.40's on a good day!
It seems that questioning without mal intent for whatever reason still seems to invoke a negativity knee jerk reation.
A leaned out condition could also be classified as a boost problem, too much air (boost) and not enough fuel. Lower the boost and the lean condition suddenly disappears. Or in the case which you noted, keep the same boost and add more fuel. Either way the lean condition is put to rest. To me, if a blown gasser is on the ragged edge with 10-15 lbs of boost, what is going to happen when 40+ lbs of boost added to the equation. I understand that upgrading the fuel system solves many problems, but keeping the same static compression and cam specs with a huge increase in boost could lead to more issues.
Well ... I'm sure that Willis will chime in here sooner or later to defend ... oops, I mean discuss, his engine build with you ...
Again ... here I go with my opinion, Willis was trying to get a proper fuel mixture, that is where his problem was ... he needed to step out of what equated right and run what had been prooven on a Jet gasser ... he was having a hard time and had too much input from too many individuals ... again my opinion here ... now, he's stepped back and is taking advice from the ones who have made these numbers work in the past ...
Now, I'm not sure that he'll even come back and discuss with you the exacta's about his motor ... but give the guy some props for trying ... not come out and point out his past defeats ...
I think the "knee jerk" was coming out saying that he didn't have the motor to support the PSI in the first place ... maybe he does now.
With the introduction of new safety rules ... the possibility of setting a record sometimes becomes impossible. Perfect example is the 145mph Jet Boat rule ... with Don's BGJ @ 147 and Harold Jr's BFJ @ 155 ... current racers cannot ever beat it ...
but they can run more cubic inch. ;)
IT'S STILL RAINING!!! :220v:
You can put away your umbrella, I guess we all should have a drink of the grape kool aid and be done with it. Why is it that most take the path of least resistance and follow the crowd of complacency.
It's the winter and most including myself are working on their boats and would like information to ease the pain that the school of hard knocks provides.
but they can run more cubic inch. ;)
Yeah ... he thought he needed the cubes ... and that motor would still be illegal ... that's why he's engineless ...
Harold Bruce's 509 ... still the champ IMO ...