Democracy Runs On Oil: Part 1, Occupation

[Flying Tiger]

Now check this experience out:
I have a Japanese friend that I help with his A/c biz from time to time,, and he helps me from time to time.
He lived in Japan as a 12 year old during WWII.
OK Now this:
An German Couple I hang out with at Parker lived in Germany, both were 12 during WWII.
Their common take on war?:
Ya can't occupy a nation without anihilation of the civilian population.
All big conquering armies throughout time have done this.
The Romans, The Vikings, ect ect,,,
You beat the population into a state where they are not going to rise against you.

[v-drive]

So that I just don't get this wrong what are you saying? v-drive

[mickeyfinn]

I think he is saying that if we are at war we should be at war against a country. Not an individual,militant group or an army,but the whole country. Every man woman and child. We should have learned this in Vietnam. I dont disagree with the need to be in Iraq,but I do think that we should be at war with the whole country. After all the people allowed themselves to be ruled by the individual.If we do want to persue an individual then send in a team of assasins. If we at war with the country rhen lets start rounding people up and getting them out of harms way because our military should be considering EVERYONE a potential deadly enemy. The idea of just fighting the military makes war too sanitary. Wars should cause massive death and destruction. It is supposed to be serious business to be taken serious and avoided if at all possible. Just my .02

[steelcomp]

Now check this experience out:
I have a Japanese friend that I help with his A/c biz from time to time,, and he helps me from time to time.
He lived in Japan as a 12 year old during WWII.
OK Now this:
An German Couple I hang out with at Parker lived in Germany, both were 12 during WWII.
Their common take on war?:
Ya can't occupy a nation without anihilation of the civilian population.
All big conquering armies throughout time have done this.
The Romans, The Vikings, ect ect,,,
You beat the population into a state where they are not going to rise against you.
What's your point? Where are your comments targeted? Do you think two people make a consensus?
We (occupied) Afganastan and Iraq both with little consequence to the civilian population, except mostly for the unfortunate victims that the enemy tried to use as a human shield. There is no more indiscriminate bombing of civilians or property on our part. That's why our technology is so important. That's why we need to have a strong military "technologically", which is expensive, but it saves untold lives, with better results. Now the terrorists...that's another subject. Their target is strictly civilian, but they're not trying to occupy a country, now, are they.

[steelcomp]

Mickeyfinn...I totally agree with you, but it is not a country that attacked us three years ago, nor is it one that we can "occupy" that will solve the problem. it's a philosophy, which is prevelant in many countrys, including our own.

[Jeanyus]

I think it's a problem, to capture the enemy soldiers, and then release them, so they pick up arms and attack our soldiers again. We try to fight wars to please the pacifists, and allow politics to determine our stratigies. We can't put enemy soldiers in prison camps, that violates thier civil rights, we can't interrogate them, and we can't eliminate them. If were going to fight a war then lets do it. News flash people get killed in wars. I think thats why they call it a war! Insurgents are hiding in a Mosk. 1 tomahawk missle puts an end to that. If you race your boat do you put a throttle stop on it, and use only 1/2 throttle, only if you plan on losing the race.
We send our military to war and tie one hand behind there back. Let the military finish the job.

[steelcomp]

I think it's a problem, to capture the enemy soldiers, and then release them, so they pick up arms and attack our soldiers again. We try to fight wars to please the pacifists, and allow politics to determine our stratigies. We can't put enemy soldiers in prison camps, that violates thier civil rights, we can't interrogate them, and we can't eliminate them. If were going to fight a war then lets do it. News flash people get killed in wars. I think thats why they call it a war! Insurgents are hiding in a Mosk. 1 tomahawk missle puts an end to that. If you race your boat do you put a throttle stop on it, and use only 1/2 throttle, only if you plan on losing the race.
We send our military to war and tie one hand behind there back. Let the military finish the job.
so true, so very true.

[Kurtis500]

Germany and Japan were completly behind thier governments and the war against the US at the time. To turn the population against thier contries fight the US bombed civilian targets killing unbelievable amounts of people.
Years ago I used to go on Thursday mornings with my grandpa and his neighbor Bud to eat breakfast. Like driving Miss Daisy they would sit in the back seat while I drove the new Cadillac up front by myself. Bud retired a full Colonel in the air force. He also flew 43 missions as a Captain with the Army's 8th air force in England. 30 in a flying fortress and 13 in a Liberator. 41 were bombing missions and 2 food drops. Pretty amazing stats for sure, and a list of medals and commendations to go with it. Funny thing, he used to always talk about being in England during the war but rarely talked about the fighting and more about the prostitutes He kept apologizing to me for bangin those english guys wifes at home while they were at war. :jawdrop: Anyways, while discussing something related to flying he slipped into a rare moment and told me about a bombing trip to Berlin. He said the sole purpose was to bomb the people. They loaded incendiary bombs on the planes and had maps of the civilian streets in Berlin. The point was to create a very large ring of fire with the buildings miles across and let the fires burn together, compounding the effect. Bud still had the reconisance pictures of the neighborhood. You could see the patios, buildings, school, cars and so-on...pretty sad. Surprisingly, he told me the exact number of people killed and it was somewhere in the 60,000 plus range. A figure he probably researched later on since realtime info wasn't available. As he was telling the story he was getting teary eyed, that kind of thing stuck with him 50+ years later. He knew kids, women and the elderly were the majority of those burned to death since the able bodied men where elsewhere. He wasn't the least bit proud of it, but I didnt sense regret, just a sadness for being called on to do it. The whole thing left you with a sense war being a big waste of life

[ONAROLL]

Kurtis500
I was very fortunate to have a similar conversation with an old bomber veteran but he had a profound sense that he had saved millions of lives when he released his atomic bomb on Hiroshima, because he knew if the Japanese were not stunned into submission then Americans were going to have to occupy Japan, Colonel Paul Tibbets upon my direct question about feeling any personal guilt answered " No, never have ".............

[v-drive]

I recall similar conversations with a marine uncle. I like to think that we have risen above total anililation but I guess when it comes down to it you have to show your superiority. If this is the case we will be taking on the whole region. v-drive