Interesting Stats about illegals...

[rivercrazy]

Illegals should even be allowed an opinion on the topic of immigration.
And those who were once illegal but became actual US Citizens, should be Citizens for at least 30 years before being allowed on opinion on the topic!

[cdog]

Part 4 - Undocumented Workers Give $7 Billion Annually to Social Security
According to a New York Times article on April 5, 2005, "...the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year....Moreover, the money paid by illegal immigrants and their employers is factored into all the Social Security Administration's projections."
However,since illegal immigrant workers are here illegally, and ostensibly presented fake ID to the US employer, they will never collect Social Security benefits. "For illegal immigrants, Social Security numbers are simply a tool needed to work on this side of the border. Retirement does not enter the picture," reports the New York Times.
The Social Security Administration remains solvent in large part due to deductions taken from the paychecks of illegal immigrant workers, yet Social Security will never pay benefits to those workers. The workers pay in, but they never receive back.
Wouldn't the federal government detect fake Social Security numbers? According to that April 6, 2005 New York Times article, "Starting in the late 1980s, the social Security Administration received a flood of W-2 earnings reports with incorrect---sometimes simply fictitious---Social Security numbers. It stashed them in what it calls the 'earnings suspense file' in the hope that someday it would figure out whom they belonged to.
The file has been mushrooming ever since: $189 billion worth of wages ended up recorded in the suspense file over the 1990s, two and a half times the amount of the 1980s.
In the current decade, the file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year, generating $6 billion to $7 billion in Social Security tax revenue and about $1.5 billion in Medicare taxes.
...the mismatched W-2's fit like a glove on illegal immigrants' known geographic distribution and the patchwork of jobs they typically hold. An audit found that more than half of the 100 employers filing the most earnings reports with false social Security numbers from 1997 through 2001 came from just three states: California, Texas and Illinois."
As shown by this information, the federal bureaucracy clearly knows which companies employ probable illegal immigrant workers, and it even knows which workers are likely illegals.
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From the link I posted above....
Either way they still commited identity fraud in order to pay SS. It's a very tired and worn out agrument you posted.
If i rob a bank and donate all the money to the local childrens hospital does that make it ok to rob the bank ?
Fraud is illegal! Period. They came here illegally. They broke the law. From the figures I've seen they are still in the hole by 10 billion thru the social services they use.

[CA Stu]

Either way they still commited identity fraud in order to pay SS. It's a very tired and worn out agrument you posted.
If i rob a bank and donate all the money to the local childrens hospital does that make it ok to rob the bank ?
Fraud is illegal! Period. They came here illegally. They broke the law. From the figures I've seen they are still in the hole by 10 billion thru the social services they use.
Got a source / link for that figure?
Identity fraud? That's a stretch.
If they took out credit using someone else's info, that's true, but to work and pay into the SS system with no way to retrieve their money... Who loses then?
Thanks
CA Stu

[redneckcharlie]

hey ca stu, tell me you just didn't use the new york times as a source? how reliable has that periodical been in the past? better yet, how many times have the new york times been busted printing false information? as for believing everything i read on a message board, you must be kidding. i'm not sure if you were trying to question my intellect or my ability to make up my own mind? the stats do not look that out of line. not to have to qualify myself, but i will. my family has land on the border here in nm. anytime you want to come down here and stand around the border, your more than welcome. there is a reason why everyone who has land around the border is armed to the teeth. hell, i'll even pay for your transportation if you'll spend one night out there by yourself with nothing more than the cloths on your back and your moralistic ideals!

[THREADED INC.]

Subject: LA Times Information!
Subject: LA COUNTY!!!
(All 10 from the Los Angeles Times)
1. 40% of all workers in L.A. County (L.A. County has 10 million people) are working for cash and not paying taxes. This was because they are Predominantly illegal immigrants, working without a green card.
2. 95% of warrants for murder in Los Angeles are for illegal aliens.
3. 75% of people on the most wanted list in Los Angeles are illegal Aliens.
4. Over 2/3's of all births in Los Angeles County are to illegal alien Mexicans on Medi-Cal whose births were paid for by taxpayers.
5. Nearly 25% of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals here illegally.
6. Over 300,000 illegal aliens in Los Angeles County are living in Garages.
7. The FBI reports half of all gang members in Los Angeles are most Likely illegal aliens from south of the border.
8. Nearly 60% of all occupants of HUD properties are illegal.
9. 21 radio stations in L.A. Are Spanish speaking.
10. In L.A.County, 5.1 million people speak English. 3.9 million speak Spanish (10.2 million people in L.A.County).
Less than 2% of illegal aliens are Picking our crops but 29% are on welfare.
AND THESE ARE THE PEOPLE DEMANDING AMNESTY !!!!
And your illegal right

[bear down]

hey ca stu, tell me you just didn't use the new york times as a source? how reliable has that periodical been in the past? better yet, how many times have the new york times been busted printing false information? as for believing everything i read on a message board, you must be kidding. i'm not sure if you were trying to question my intellect or my ability to make up my own mind? the stats do not look that out of line. not to have to qualify myself, but i will. my family has land on the border here in nm. anytime you want to come down here and stand around the border, your more than welcome. there is a reason why everyone who has land around the border is armed to the teeth. hell, i'll even pay for your transportation if you'll spend one night out there by yourself with nothing more than the cloths on your back and your moralistic ideals!
Maybe your confusing the paper to the New York Post. Some post a reliable source and then I'll believe it.

[redneckcharlie]

actually i'm not confusing the two. but now that you mention it, both of those news papers have been very suspect in the past for distorting and slanting stories.

[cdog]

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...dobbs0828.html
U.S. policy on immigration is a tragic joke
By Lou Dobbs
Special for "The Republic"
Aug. 28, 2005 12:00 AM
There is a common front in our illegal-alien crisis, the war on drugs and the global war on terror. That front line is easily defined as our nation's borders, airports and seaports. And Arizonans know only too well the pain and problems of living and working on the front line of our border with Mexico.
South of that border is a corrupt and ineffective government run by President Vicente Fox, who has no apparent incentive to control the flow of drugs being shipped from Mexico into the United States and every incentive to continue the exportation of illegal aliens into this country. This year, in fact, remittances back to Mexico from the estimated 20 million Mexican citizens living in the United States, most of them illegally, surpassed oil as Mexico's No. 1 source of foreign revenue.
In the United States, an obscene alliance of corporate supremacists, desperate labor unions, certain ethnocentric Latino activist organizations and a majority of our elected officials in Washington works diligently to keep our borders open, wages suppressed and the American people all but helpless to resist the crushing financial and economic burden created by the millions of illegal aliens who crash our borders each year. advertisement
They work just as hard to deny the truth to the American public. That's why almost every evening on my CNN broadcast we report on this country's "Broken Borders." The truth is that U.S. immigration policy is a tragic joke at the expense of hard-working middle-class Americans.
What has been the response of the Bush administration? It proposed a guest-worker program giving legal status to millions of illegal aliens. But national opinion polls reveal an overwhelming majority of Americans are contemptuous of such cynical proposals. The latest Zogby poll shows only 35 percent of those surveyed support the president's approach. The American people want our borders secure, want our immigration laws enforced and want those who hire illegal aliens both punished and held liable for the economic and social costs of breaking our laws.
We are a nation of immigrants, and there is no more diverse and welcoming society than ours. But we are first a nation of laws, and upholding those laws and our national values makes this great country of ours possible.
Arizonans are to be commended for passing Proposition 200 and creating the political will that led to last week's declaration of the state of emergency by Gov. Janet Napolitano. Neither act is sufficient to solve our illegal-immigration crisis, but both acts constitute a beginning in resolving what may well be the most critical issue facing the United States.
Last week, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said he wanted to "stabilize" our borders and create more detainee beds and expedite more deportations. Stabilizing our borders is not enough. If we do not take control of our borders, deportations amount to little more than inconvenience to illegal aliens and whomever else wants to enter our country.
Failure to secure our borders means that we will continue to lose the war on drugs and lose a generation of Americans to those drugs. It also means the crushing burden of our failed immigration and homeland security policies will continue to fall exclusively on the shoulders of working men and women. Not only do illegal aliens and those who employ them cost the nation tens of billions of dollars in social services, principally in health care and education, they also depress wages for American citizens by an estimated $200 billion a year.
The most reasonable response I have seen to this illegal-immigration crisis is legislation introduced by one of your state's distinguished senators, Jon Kyl, who co-sponsored a bill with Sen. John Cornyn. That bill seeks 10,000 new Border Patrol agents and detention beds, fraud-resistant Social Security cards, increased penalties for employers and current illegal aliens would have to leave the United States to apply for permanent citizenship.
Reform begins with the truth. And our elected officials must begin to recognize the reality that a war on terror and war on drugs can be won only by securing our borders and that any reform of our immigration policies must begin first at the front line of the crisis: our border with Mexico.
Anything less is just another sad joke, and we know at whose expense.
Lou Dobbs is the anchor and managing editor of CNN's "Lou Dobbs Tonight."

[Old Guy]

Hey CA Stu,
This contempt you have for the rule of law, were you born that way or is it something you learned?

[cdog]

http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...ssuecentersf13 4
The Huddle Study
Because the number of illegal aliens can only be estimated, similarly the fiscal cost (government budget outlays) for those aliens can only be estimated. Dr. Donald Huddle, a Rice University economics professor, published a systematic analysis of those costs as of 1996 (see table below). The study also estimated the tax payments of those same aliens.
At that time, the illegal alien population was estimated to be about five million persons. The estimated fiscal cost of those illegal aliens to the federal, state and local governments was about $33 billion. This impact was partially offset by an estimated $12.6 billion in taxes paid to the federal, state and local governments, resulting in a net cost to the American taxpayer of about $20 billion every year. This estimate did not include indirect costs that result from unemployment payments to Americans who lost their jobs to illegal aliens willing to work for lower wages. Nor did it include lost tax collections from those American workers who became unemployed. The study estimated those indirect costs from illegal immigration at an additional $4.3 billion annually.
During the years since that estimate, the illegal alien population is estimated to have roughly doubled, so the estimated fiscal costs also will have at least doubled. Furthermore, the passage of time is accompanied by inflation in the costs of services, e.g., school budgets continue to climb. Therefore, what was estimated to be a cost to the American taxpayer of $33 billion in 1996 today would be at least $70 billion. Similarly, tax collections would have increased — sales taxes at least — so that the net expense to the taxpayer from illegal immigration would currently be at least $45 billion. The indirect fiscal costs would have also increased, especially during a period of already high unemployment, to perhaps and additional $10 billion annually.
1996 Costs Table from the Huddle Study 1
Programs
(billions)
Public Education K-12 $5.85
Public Higher Education $0.71
ESL and Bilingual Education $1.22
Food Stamps $0.85
AFDC $0.50
Housing $0.61
Social Security $3.61
Earned Income Tax Credit $0.68
Medicaid $3.12
Medicare A and B $0.58
Criminal Justice and Corrections $0.76
Local Government $5.00
Other Programs $9.25
Total Costs
$32.74
Less Taxes Paid
$12.59
Net Costs of Direct Services
$20.16
Displacement Costs
$4.28
All Net Costs
$24.44
Other More Recent Estimates
Other estimates have been done on components of the cost of illegal immigration. For example, FAIR estimated in 2003 that the cost of K-12 education for illegal alien children was at least $7.4 billion annually (see Breaking the Piggybank). This would be less than double the about $5.9 billion estimate above, but would be of the same order of magnitude. FAIR’s 2004 report on the medical expenses incurred because of illegal immigration (see The Sinking Lifeboat) shows uncompensated costs in excess of one billion dollars.
The cost of incarceration of illegal aliens in state prisons has also risen rapidly. In fiscal year ’02, the Department of Justice’s State Criminal Alien Assistance Program (SCAAP) distributed $550 million to the states to help defray their expenses, but this was estimated to cover only about one fifth of their outlays. Between FY'99 and FY'02, alien detention increased by 45 percent (from about 69,300 inmate years to over 100,300 inmate years), and that trend is continuing. These expenses do not include the costs of illegal aliens incarcerated in federal prisons, public safety expenditures, detention pending trial, expenses of trial proceedings, interpretation, public defenders, or the incarceration expenses of immigrants for minor offenses that do not meet the standards of the SCAPP reimbursement program. Therefore, it is clear that outlays for Criminal Justice and Corrections costs is today much greater than double the 1996 estimate.
While the cost of outlays for illegal aliens may be shifted by legislation among the levels of government and the private sector, the fact remains that illegal immigration creates an enormous fiscal burden on America and its citizens — a burden that Congress has levied upon us through short-sighted and haphazard immigration policy and succeeding administrations have aggravated by spotty enforcement of the law.
A Call for Action
Americans should demand that Congress and the administration work together to establish control over our borders and the interior of the country so that we have the assurance that aliens, whether immigrants or visitors, are legally present in the country. That objective is of vital importance for the sake of national security as well as for the impact on our tax bills.