The Quagmire (iraq)

[bigq]

Nice Kronic ...and tell your little brother thanks.
I hear "WMD" and I know what's coming next, always the same shallow banter. Lately I have been at odds with the Bush Administration for a variety of issues, but I do believe they are on the right track for cutting back on world terrorism.

[SHAKEN Not Stirred]

No wepons of mass destruction ?????
Ten's of thousands of bodies buried in mass graves......
Even small arms fire can be a wepon of mass destruction.....
Sometimes in your life you just gotta make a stand.....
We already waited too long.......
Are these people stoned, stupid, or both ?????
Don't you get it ?????
We're fighting for our right to exist !!!!!
Or did you miss that part ????
CJG
:hammerhea

[Blown 472]

MMD,
I could not have said it any better. These boneheads that tell you they support our troups then turn around and undermine them with their very next breath. NUTS
Perhaps you could join the army and go over there to help out??
Some of you said you would be ok with this war if it were just for oil, is that correct??

[Blown 472]

How do I feel about this mess we have going in Iraq? Hmm. Glad you asked. Well first of all I don’t subscribe to Rolling Stone. I feel that the magazine sucks almost as much ass as the pussy cry-core corporate major label bands that they incessantly promote. Some one interested in conspiracy theory would probably have a field day investigating the relationship between that magazine and the corporate music world. If I did choose to read Rolling Stone I probably would have to take any political piece that they wrote with a grain of salt considering who their audience is and who they are attempting to sell their magazine to.
Back to the topic at hand. Before I begin please allow me to qualify myself. My father is a Vietnam veteran and my little brother is a west point graduate who is currently an officer in the us army. Much of the info that I have gathered on the conditions inside of Iraq has come directly from my brother while he was serving in Iraq. While in Iraq he was not just a foot soldier. He was assigned to work alongside the commanding generals and was privy to top-secret information that few people know. He has spoken with rumsfeld and met with him on his visits to Iraq. “The news is bad and getting worse?” That’s a pretty vague and general statement and although it might seem like things are bad now I happen to feel that things are much better than they were and at least at this point there is a possibility of improvement. As for the statement “Most of the Iraq Police forces trained by our forces are defecting to the insurgents!” Where did you get this statistic? Did you know that there are Iraqi Special Forces being trained by us who in order to become a member they either personally had to have been tortured or have had an immediate family member killed by Saddams’ men? The sad truth is that there is no shortage of these individuals and they are quite happy to take up the cause. As for the other Iraqi forces my brother has personally hung out with and gone on missions with many of them. He explained that most of the people who are drawn to the insurgency do it for purely financial reasons not religious fanaticism. Maybe the insurgency pays better? I wouldn’t want to be on their side though.
As far as the cost of the war. Do you know the cost of terrorism? When you add up the financial costs of airport security, Sept. 11th, the cost of the world trade centers in both real estate and innocent life (plus all the other peoples lives that were negatively affected). Not to mention the financial effect it had on the country, the stock market, the airline industry, the post office etc. etc. (remember the cost of cleaning up all that white powder) and oh by the way, I hope you don’t think that the anthrax was created in a small cave in Afghanistan. All things being equal, what is the most logical source of the anthrax? A rag tag bunch of fruitcakes or a belligerent nation who would love to injure us who, oh by the way had some lying around quite recently. Hint: don’t ask Michael Moore. By the way what do you think things would have been like if they had been a bit wiser in the delivery of that anthrax?
$192 billion, Sounds good to me. Oh by the way how about a few reasons to go to war even without any evidence of WMD? Here are a few…
1. The oil for food scandal. I’d pay the 192B just to right the wrong of saddam paying off French and Russian officials and in the meantime allowing the citizens/children of his country starve to death and die of easily treatable maladies.
2. Russia selling silkworm missiles, brand new rpg9’s right out of the box along with gps jamming hardware and personnel to train saddam’s troops on their use to use against our troops
3. The French selling missiles, explosives, grenades and hardware to saddam (but c’mon what kind of pussies use French weapons)
4. To try Saddam for war crimes and genocide
5. How about just to scare the living crap out of the Arab world so that even if they don’t respect us they will at least fear us because what the hell if every time the us gets F’ed with we invade a country I’d be willing to bet that people won’t F with us anymore.
6. Upset the illegal drug trade that finances much of terrorism.
7. Scare the crap out of Syria and Iran
8. Give the terrorists somewhere to go and something to do in a different part of the world.
9. Last but not least because my little brother says so. Like I said before my brother is privy to info that is not common knowledge. When I asked him what this whole war was about and was it all worth it he said hell ya. Without telling me anything that he shouldn’t he said that in 20 years when people start interviewing primary sources and some of this stuff becomes unclassified he said that yes, history will show that we were in the right. Oh, and by the way my brothers Bradley fighting vehicle was hit and his gunner and commander were killed.
10. Ask a Kurd. Any Kurd off the street. Ask em’ what they think. I’ve met and have known many Iraqi Kurds who grew up in Iraq under saddam hussien. I could tell you stories that they have told to me but I doubt they would be printed in this forum or if you would believe me.
Explode into a civil war? You mean to say that the murdering, raping, lying, stealing, cheating minority can’t get along with the majority of the population that they have tortured, beaten, raped and killed for the last 30 years? Hmm That’s odd. I recall that we had a civil war in this country a while back. Things seem to have ended up pretty well if ya ask me.
What the hell are we still doing there; didn’t we learn our lesson in Vietnam? Yeah, we did. Thanks. My dad got his guts ripped apart by an RPG in Vietnam. He is very proud of his service and believes that we were trying to do the right thing. Don’t believe him though, go to Vietnam. Look around. Ask the first person you meet whom they would rather have won the war.
As for the journalists. I could tell you stories of what they have done that would make you wish you could have killed them yourself. Like how every morning they call by phone (because they don’t leave the hotel) to ask how many soldiers had died the night before. When the answer is none my brother has actually heard a sigh from the other end and an abrupt hang up. They will then dial the next number on their list to try to locate a fatality to report. They do all of their reporting by phone over there, did you know that? What if the person who answers the phone lies to them, how would they know? Curious huh? Do you know how many hospitals they have opened over there? How many have you seen on the news? Schools? Libraries? Water treatment facilities? My brother prepared press kits for our journalists to attend these events. Guess how many showed up? ZERO!!! Al Arabia and al jazeera actually made it to more than we did. It’s no wonder that people think things are actually getting worse over there. Sorry, but I don’t believe it. My brother was there for the election and there was a change after that. What we are seeing may be the death throes of this insurgency who while we are on the subject dupe unsuspecting foreigners into becoming suicide bombers. Did you know that? Did you know that most suicide bombers are innocent foreign workers looking for a job? When they answer the add in the paper the “boss” tells them that they are to drive this delivery truck to this address and deliver a package. Guess what? The truck is loaded with explosives.
We aren’t supposed to be fighting this? We aren’t supposed to be standing up against the people who would do such things? I don’t care how we got there. I don’t care what the reasons. All I know is that I hope every one of these a-holes is dead before we leave.
As for the president and the Saudi prince. Ask Michael Moore about that. I mean the president meeting with a foreign head of state? What would they talk about? What could it possibly mean? He’s the president he meets with people. I find it more difficult to believe that the president has to meet with leaders from Russia and France who sold us out and stabbed us in the back for money. Because yes, countries are self-serving and yes they do what is in their best interest.
You left out of your list the US selling chemical weapons to iraq and the cia training them oh yeah and rummy shaking hands with saddam as the US did nothing about him gassing the kurds.

[bigd1]

It's simple: Since Bush was drunk, stoned, and wired during VietNam and missed all the action, he decided to create another one so he could experience the same type of failure. So far so good.

[Schiada76]

It's simple: Since Bush was drunk, stoned, and wired during VietNam and missed all the action, he decided to create another one so he could experience the same type of failure. So far so good.
This is GREAT! I have finnally found someone with the facts on GW.
When can we meet? Since a liberal would never make a statement like this without PROOF you must have some great sources for these "facts", which, I'm sure you know would be worth millions and millions of dollars to the DNC.
So when can we meet? I need the money.
Imbecile

[Dr. Eagle]

Imbecile
Certainly not a Savant... or :idea:

[bigq]

You left out of your list the US selling chemical weapons to iraq and the cia training them oh yeah and rummy shaking hands with saddam as the US did nothing about him gassing the kurds.
Another great argument as old as time :sleeping: . Countries, corporations and even indivisuals do this crap all the time, take advantage of one situation to futher the cause of something else. As shamefull as it may be it's not just one political party that does it. It seems there is always a reason why the US will help one country and not another and obviously most of the time it will be to benefit us in some way.

[LAFD]

I STILL SAY WE NUC UM :hammer2: . WEVE LOST TO MANY BRAVE SOLDIERS FOR A PLACE SO F*CKED UP. :angry2: BUT BEING THAT IT WONT BE JUST THAT EASY WHY NOT DISARM THE WHOLE FICKEN COUNTRY. EVERY SINGLE PERSON SHOULD BE DISARMED AND THE ONLY ONES WITH THE WEAPONS, WELL DUH JUST US. SO THAT WAY YOU CRUISIN DOWN THE ROAD YOU SEE A PERSON WITH A GUN SHOOT THE M*THERF*CKER. I KNOW IF I WAS OVER WALKIN DOWN THE STREET OR CRUISIN IN A TANK OR WHATEVER AND I SEE SOME TOWEL HEAD JACKASS WITH AN AK 47 IDE WANNA KNOW WHY HE NEEDS IT AND YOU KNOW YOUR ALWAYS GUNNA HAVE THAT FEELIN THAT AT ANY MOMENT THAT PERSON COULD JUST OPEN FIRE ON YA. WE JUST NEED TO SACK UP AND PLAY HARDBALL AND NOT WORRY ABOUT HURTIN SOMEONES FEELINGS. ITS WAR FOR F*CKIN SACS. HOPFULLY SOME OF THIS MAKES SENSE IF NOT SORRY FOR WASTIN YOUR TIME.

[Dr. Eagle]

Another great argument as old as time :sleeping: . Countries, corporations and even indivisuals do this crap all the time, take advantage of one situation to futher the cause of something else.
Excellent point. Just because this may have happened, doesn't mean that the government sanctioned it. There are lots of people that will get you whatever you want for the right $$$$, legal or not.