Reply With QuoteFrom the trigger to the case it is absolute 0 ohms. I just can't believe that they are both dead on arrival. Sucks. I don't want to take a chance with a third.
......If I run a regular three wire one, do I have to use the third post?
Only needed if you are running a points ignition. That 3rd terminal is for the "ballast bypass" circuit.
From the trigger to the case it is absolute 0 ohms. I just can't believe that they are both dead on arrival. Sucks. I don't want to take a chance with a third.
I wish I were going to be at work tomorrow(Toyota tech). I'd pull one of our cores apart to look, but I'm willing to bet there should be some sort of insulator between the case and the solenoid windings. Maybe If I get a chance, I'll swing by and check for you. Actually, you've just got me really curious.....
Perhaps there is a jumper to bypass the solenoid. Some Ford starters have this jumper to be used with a remote solenoid thats usually mounted to the inner fender panel. I think its strange there would be two bad starters back to back. Craig...You REALLY wish you were going to be at work???? :jawdrop: :jawdrop:
I can take it apart and take a couple of pictures later today. The windings are just suspended away from the case, but the wire that goes from the outside of the case down into the case to the windings is not shielded and it looks like it is touching the case. I think that you were right OldSquirt. I think they either are not reassembling them right, or possibly leaving out a plastic shield of some type. I almost want to take apart the solenoid and slide a plastic shield in. That's not what I paid for though, so I am going to send them both back and get something else. What I am thinking about getting is the same starter, only the non-chrome one that is recommended for up to 18:1 compression. My engine is 12.5:1, so I think that starter would turn it with relative ease.
ColeSanger,
IF you end up going with a different starter (and don't want to drop the BIG $$ for a Tilton)...
I can highly recommend the "Powermaster" brand High-Torque Mini Starter.
Here's the poop:
HIGHEST TORQUE (200 ft-lb.)
Most Efficient
No Heat Soak Problems
Clears All Headers
Clears Oil Pans Where OE Starter Will Work
Billet Aluminum Adapter Block
4.4:1 Gear Reduction Ratio
Cranking Power For up to 18:1 Compression
Mounting Bolts Included
Dyno Test Results Included
Weight: 8.0 lbs.
Part# 9502 - Chevy - 153 Tooth Flywheel
Part# 9500 - Chevy - 168 Tooth Flywheel
Powermaster Starters (and alternators) (http://www.powermastermotorsports.co..._starters.html)
I bought mine from "Vic Hubbard's Speed & Marine" in Hayward, CA for $204.00
I just don't get it. The third starter came in. It was not chrome plated like the first two. It is shorted from the solenoid to the case. I still had the first one in the boat just laying on my stringer (rail kit). I decided to say screw it. If this is how they are supposed to be then I am going to burn this one up before I send it back. I put in a 30 amp fuse. I kick it over and what do you know, it kicks the solenoid out and kicks over the starter. So I sand down the freshly painted block where the starter mounts. Works perfect. I am glad it works, but I am not real sure why it works. Why would you want to send 12Vdc through the block? If your distributor components weren't isolated, you could burn them up. Not to mention anything else that doesn't get isolated very well. Like a fuel pump, or MSD ignition box, etc. I am guessing that no one else on here knew that the solenoid hot wire should be shorted to the starter case.
Cole, I just happened to pull one apart today at work. Ours are Nippondenso. Not sure if that is what the Summit one is based on or if it is a Hitachi. I couldn't find the wire you were referring to as going to ground.
Something you need to remember is that the solenoid is comprised of two separate coil windings. One is the "pull-in" coil and the other is the "hold-in". The pull-in is connected at one end to the solenoid "S" terminal and at the other end it is grounded to the case. It gets B+ by way of your starter switch. The hold-in coil is connected to the terminal of the solenoid that goes to the starter's motor and and to the "S" terminal. So, yes, you should show continuity between the "S" terminal and the starter case. If not, the solenoid would never function and, in turn, neither would the starter motor. It should not be "shorted" to ground, but the windings are big and may actually show as "0" ohms. I will measure the resistance of a good starter, between "S" and case, tomorrow.
Since the first starter(or was it the first two?) was causing a fuse to blow, there is definitely something wrong inside that solenoid.
I just don't get it. The third starter came in. It was not chrome plated like the first two. It is shorted from the solenoid to the case. I still had the first one in the boat just laying on my stringer (rail kit). I decided to say screw it. If this is how they are supposed to be then I am going to burn this one up before I send it back. I put in a 30 amp fuse. I kick it over and what do you know, it kicks the solenoid out and kicks over the starter. So I sand down the freshly painted block where the starter mounts. Works perfect. I am glad it works, but I am not real sure why it works. Why would you want to send 12Vdc through the block? If your distributor components weren't isolated, you could burn them up. Not to mention anything else that doesn't get isolated very well. Like a fuel pump, or MSD ignition box, etc. I am guessing that no one else on here knew that the solenoid hot wire should be shorted to the starter case.
I'm gonna take a guess here that your hot wire shorted to the case runs through a coil that activates a function of the solenoid when energized. These coils are nothing more than electromagnets. Remember starters must be grounded well to the block as that is how they complete their circuit. If the coil is part of that circuit it makes since you'd see zero resistance on that wire. The fact that you removed the fresh paint and it now works leads me to believe that was preventing it from working initially (I just posted on the paint issue in another thread dealing with alternators recently). Paint and/or oily starter bolts can prevent a starter from working properly because it prevents them getting a good ground. Think about it. When you bench test a starter you have to ground the case. Same when installed.
We use IMI exclusively and I don't ever recall a problem of the nature you describe, in fact we never have problems with them at all. But all these starters are wired relatively similar and operate relatively similar.
You got my curiosity up so I went out and pulled a brand new IMI Marine off the shelf and ohm tested it. It's exactly how you describe yours, the small terminal goes to ground in the case (0 ohms).
I think your problem was the paint or the simple fact that the wire to ground on the case threw up a red flag that wasn't actually a problem.
As far as the fuses blowing my guess is that the paint caused so much resistance it took more amperage than the fuse to handle to attempt to complete the circuit to the bad ground so it popped the fuse and the starter never even tried to actuate because of it.
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