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Thread: need BBF ford advice

  1. #1
    Wired Nut
    I am building a motor for my 1975 18' Southwind with a Berkeley 12JC-A pump that has been reworked a little by Tom Papp. I need help picking the rest of the parts needed to complete this project. i am still unshur what fuel delivery system i want to use it is a toss up between a tunnel ram with duel carbs or a Enderle mechanical Fuel Injected tunnel ram (BIRDCATCHER INJECTOR TUNNEL RAM) has anyone run this type of intake if so how did it work out? I am also looking for a good Ford engine builder.I have made a list of the parts I have already and a list of parts i still need to get. any help recommending manufacturers or part #s would be of great help I seem to get confused when it comes to the valvetrain.
    parts I have
    Scat 4.15 crank
    SCAT H-Beam rods
    SRP pistons 10.3:1
    Sealed-Power rings
    ARP main studs
    ARP Head studs
    Clevite 77 "H" series main bearings
    Clevite 77 "H" series Rod bearings
    Clevite 77 cam bearings
    Cloyes Billet true roller timing set 9 Keyway
    Blue thunder heads 74cc with 2.25,1.88 std HT. ford exhaust
    Bassett 10 Quart oil pan W/ windage tray
    Bassett water injected headers
    parts I need
    roller rockers what ratio ?
    Cam hyd. roller prefered
    hyd roller lifters
    oil pump
    distributor
    gasket set
    push rods
    valve springs
    valve spring retainers and locks

  2. #2
    steelcomp
    The first thing I would do is contact Blue Thunder and see what rocker and valve stem length they used when designing their head. Use that information in order to get the proper geometry, which is critical. I'm going through this with my Canfiels BB Chevy heads right now, and if I had talked to Canfield in the beginning it would have saved a lot of headaches. What some call stock length in valves, others call +.100, and so on. Manley even lists three different lengths of valves and calls them "stock" for BB Chev. :notam: Canfiels said to use a +.100 ex valve, but the dimension they give for that length is referred to as "stock" in Manley's book. Blur Thunder may have designed their head using a BB Chev rocker (for cheaper parts), which is definately different than a Ford rocker, so you need to find out. AFA pushrod lengths, you might be able to get them to tell you, but I'd just get the heads built correctly and then do a mock up and measure for your push rods. Valve springs, retainers and locks will all be determined by the cam chooice. Titanium retainers are IMOP a worthwhile investment. Anything you can do to lighten your valve train is a plus. Roller rockers are almost a must, and you'll generaly get what you pay for. Scorpions are very good, Crane, Comp, Isky, Sharp, Lunati...all make good alum. rockers. Like I said before, rartio and design will be dictated by Blue Thunder.
    I don't know if there's a hyd. roller for the BB Ford, but I would imagine so. I wouldn't bother. You can get good enough valve train pieces to where you can run a solid all year and not have any troubles with adjustments. Llifters are much lighter and you'll get better performance. Get all the info you can about your heads AFA flow numbers and decide what rpm you're going to use your boat most. Choose your cam accordingly. Don't try and "out-cam" your buddies...most have way more cam than necesary anyway, and are hurting performance. Pick the right cam and show them the back side of your roost.
    Oil pump...most BBFords will do fine with the srock pump, just check your clearances between the gears and the cover, like any oil pump. Too much and you're throwing away pump performance. You can use a high vol. if it makes you feel better, but not necessary, IMO, if bearing clearances are good. No less than .003 on the mains, and .0025 on the rods.
    Ignition...the sky'ds the limit, but go with a goos electronic. I don't particularly like MSD electronics, but their distributors are OK. Crane and Accel both are making some good electronic ignitions.
    I know all this sounds like a lot of work, and maybe a little overwhelming, but if you want your engine to perform to it's oprimum potential, then take the time to do it right. Find someone who can walk you through these steps, and ask questions. IN the end, you'll have a better running motor than 90% of the guys out there, it'll stay together longer, and you'll have more fun. :coffeycup

  3. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Anza, CA - Lost Lake, CA
    Posts
    265
    You have a good start on your parts, especially the BT Heads. If you need help deciding, go to www.dscmotorsport.com and browse. Call me Monday thru Saturday. If you are in the local area(SoCal), feel free to drop by. Conversation and advice(even if you buy elsewhere) is free. As far as engines, a complete, new Sunnen machine shop and operators that know how to use it at your disposal. Good luck on your project in any case.
    I'm just a pawn in the game of life...........

  4. #4
    LakesOnly
    Nice collection of parts there.
    If you are burning gasoline, then I would opt for the carbureted intake system over the injection system for a fun boat such as your Southwind.
    In order to get 10.3:1 c/r with those BT heads and rotating assy, you must have the 22cc dish top pistons. Double check this.
    I strongly recommend a rocker specifically designed for the Ford with a 1.73 ratio and not a 1.7 chebby rocker. The chebby may be made to work fine in many cases, but in the interest of simplicity for you first Ford build, go with a true Ford 1.73 rocker such as the Crane Gold Series, the FRPP blue, etc.
    Dizzy and electronics should be kept simple (K.I.S.S.). Most brands make a good setup, including Accel, MSD, Mallory, etc. I would opt for a breakerless ignition (no points). Believe it or not, the Ford Dura-Spark electronic ignition and distributor are fantastic (MSD's actually use for pickup coils and reluctors, for example), but ideally the Dura-Spark dizzy shoud be recurved.
    Although the hydraulic roller lifters are out there and seem to work in the Fords, I am against them in the 385 Series engine. The OAL of the hyd roller dictates the use of a rather short pushrod, and the pushrod angles are discomforting to look at, especially when you consider that your motor will be spending most of its time at 5000 rpm sustained. Get a solid roller instead. Get Lunati or Crane rollers; although I have not personal bad experience, I have heard enough bad stories about Comp Cams rollers to choose to avoid them. Get a whole cam kit that includes the lifters, springs etc. And spring the extra couple of bucks for the 10* locks!
    Go with Fel-Pro gaskets. If you want to spit hairs, get the Fel-Pro p/n 10768 marine head gaskets, as they have a .038" thickness (also have a stainless fire ring); over the p/n 1018 pass car .043" thickness gaskets.
    Your build is a good candidate for either our Stage 1 or Stage 2 oil pump, but in this case I'll recommend the Stage 1. Flows more than the stock Melling M84DHV. Oil has seven important functions in your engine and one of them is acting as a coolant, which is very important in our jet boats (high oil temps). Our Stage 1 pumps have supported somewhere around 1800-2000 horsepower in nitro burning funny cars. Stage 1 Oil Pump $119.95.
    If you intend to make use of that 9-keyway timing gear set, then you may want one of our Quick Change timing covers. They allow cam timing adjustments without removal of the timing chain case (and oil pan bolts) from your engine; just remove the cam gear access cover. Our custom timing cover is the only production cover in the world for the BBF that offers this feature. Quick Change Timing Cover $299.95.
    If you are anywhere near the 818 in SoCal, we can take the engine build job and probably beat anyone's price.
    LO

  5. #5
    Danhercules
    Lakes Only helped me with my mild 460. I could not be happier. Great guy to do buisness with. My moter is runner better than ever. Lakes helped me with cam and head selection and also ported and prepped my heads.

  6. #6
    steelcomp
    I strongly recommend a rocker specifically designed for the Ford with a 1.73 ratio and not a 1.7 chebby rocker. The chebby may be made to work fine in many cases, but in the interest of simplicity for you first Ford build, go with a true Ford 1.73 rocker such as the Crane Gold Series, the FRPP blue, etc.Lakes, do you know for a fact that the BT heads use the Ford rocker?? I know for a fact that the various after market mfgr's don't have very consistant roller to fulcrum c/l's even for same brand (Ford, Chev, etc) so it's important to know which brand was used when they designed their head. They could differ between mfgr's, even if keeping with Ford ratio.
    For example: Here's a quote from Canfield's tech page:
    Rocker arms: Don't get caught up in classifying rockers as FORD only or CHEVY only applications. After market rocker manufacturers use no standard dimension on axle center to roller tip axle center. Our Ford
    rocker stud position was established using Crane Gold Ford roller rockers.
    This is why I suggested talking to BT directly. After working in hard core cyl head mfg'ing for years, I've learned that you can't be too diligent about this stuff.
    Also, I know you're trying ot promote your stuff, and that's cool, but for this app a stock BBF pump will be plenty of oil. I'm curious as to how many "fuel funnycars" your pump is used in? C'mon, now.
    Just my .02

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,920
    Definitely don't want to get caught up in this, however (non-expert that I am) it does seem like it'd make sense to contact Blue Thunder for the rocker deal.
    Can't speak to the oil pump thing.
    Love to have one of those timing covers..............let me know when the price comes down some. Holy smokes..............three bills!
    P.S. edited here.
    Let's see if this guy can get some solid advice without the pissing match part.

  8. #8
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Anza, CA - Lost Lake, CA
    Posts
    265
    Being a stocking Blue Thunder dealer, I can say that the Heads use FORD Rockers and parts. By the way, the Dooley Pan you have requires the use of a pump other than the Truck pump(84D or 84DHV) reccomended. These(Truck) pumps will not fit the P/U included with your 10 qt Pan. Any other questions, just call. Didn't realize there were so many 'engine builders' out there reading these posts, lol.
    I'm just a pawn in the game of life...........

  9. #9
    steelcomp
    Being a stocking Blue Thunder dealer, I can say that the Heads use FORD Rockers and parts. Any other questions, just call.
    Which Ford rockers and parts? Ford Motorsport, Crane, (basically the same) Isky, Sharp???? What about valve stem lengths? Push rod lengths???

  10. #10
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Anza, CA - Lost Lake, CA
    Posts
    265
    Which Ford rockers and parts? Ford Motorsport, Crane, (basically the same) Isky, Sharp???? What about valve stem lengths? Push rod lengths???
    SteelComp, I don't use any of the ones you list. I am a WD for the company that holds the patent on the hardened PushRod seat in the Rocker body, as well as the Roller Trunnion. That company is Dove Performance. They make Rockers for Comp Cams and many other 'big' companies. Their Rockers all have a patent number stamped on them, and are the standard by which all others should be measured. I read these posts and see LOTS of bad information(ie: 40-50 HP by bolting on a set of Roller Rockers)!! If it was that easy, everyone would have a 100 mph Jet Boat, lol.
    I'm here 8-10 hours a day selling NOTHING but Ford Racing Components. If you, or anyone else, has questions, please call the number on the website. I'm fairly well known and have a good world wide reputation for honesty- even if it costs me a sale or two occasionally.
    I'm just a pawn in the game of life...........

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