need BBF ford advice

[LakesOnly]

... By the way, the Dooley Pan you have requires the use of a pump other than the Truck pump(84D or 84DHV) reccomended. These(Truck) pumps will not fit the P/U included with your 10 qt Pan.
Ahhhh yes. They use the CJ-style pump. We offer these pumps on a special order basis, since they are usually front pickup application. And since there have been recent inquiries, I arranged to include a couple into the next production run so as to have them on the shelf.
Wired Nut, I will PM you with my contact info and we can discuss Stage 1 prepped CJ pump (a bolt on deal for your pan & pickup) vs. the Stage 2 complete pump & pickup kit.
LO

[steelcomp]

Hmmmm. Me thinks there's a guilty conscience...never implied anything except that what you posted dosen't really qualify or quantify your pump in any way. Now if you said you had 12 of the last 24 finalists at the "X" Nationals using your pump, that might mean something. The point you were tryng to make was to sell a pump to someone who, IMO, dosen't need anything more than a stock pump. His motor and a fuel motor have nothing in common, especially oil system demands. Besides, if every funny car running a wet sump system had to go dry sump, then how is it that you're pump is still in a fuel funny car??
I don't want to get into it wicha, Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion.

[LakesOnly]

Dan,
I just went with the Federal Mogul Part #134-M10. They are the coated bearings..a bit pricy, but...
The FM-134M 3/4-groove main bearings are the way to go in these jet boat motors...keep the oil moving...
For cam bearings I went with Jon Kasse coated cam bearings. A bit wider than normal ones which are supposed to be a bit better for strong valve springs with added pressure on the cam. From what I hear they are 351c front bearings...
These are .060" wider than the standard 460 cam bearings, and yes they are basically #1 Cam bearings for the Cleveland
Also went with LakesOnly's stage 2 pump. Nice piece, and he helped me a lot with some pretty extensive oil mods on the block too....should get it fired this week- CAN"T WAIT!!!!!!
Ken F
I'm not going to go into every little detail on the pump mods that we do, but for the purposes of illustrating the modification efforts, I'll display one of the features. Look at the pictures below.
The first picture is of an oem Ford specification Melling stock replacement oil pump, NOT the hi volume pumps we modify. Notice that the pump's exit gallery is mostly blocked off by the bypass piston protruding into the exit gallery (left side of gerotor cavity):
Stock Spec Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...mellingoem.jpg
That's a stock spec 460 pump above. Now, the hi volume pump has a taller gerotor and therefore moves a greater volume of oil. Further, in the M84DHV, the bypass piston has been extended somewhat further away from the pump's exit gallery so as to reduce its obstruction and allow more oil flow:
M84 Hi Volume Pump:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...ing2before.jpg
Now, look at one of our mods:
Modified Melling Stage 1 & 2 Oil Pump Mod:
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...gmod2after.jpg
Note in the above photo that the bypass piston is installed and yet in no way does it obstruct oil flow as the oil exits the pump. That's how an oil pump's exit gallery should look on the inside.
(Important note: The above photo shows this single modification while still "in process" and not the finished product, after all other mods elsewhere, chamfering, blending, cleaning, etc.)
Again, this is just one of the modifications that we execute on our pumps.
Our Modified Melling Stage 1 pumps flow more than the Melling pumps as delivered and are a bolt on replacement for a standard style internal pump.
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...stage1pump.jpg
Our Stage 2 pumps also have adjustable oil pressure ouput, and even more mods (than the Stage 1) have been made all over the inside of the pump housing and a pickup kit is also included that allows you to custom fab a perfect pickup just for you pan/application.
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd...age2pump1a.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/~highflowd.../stage2kit.jpg
We sell our whole Stage 2 kit for just $199.95. By way of comparison, the Melling M84DHV pump retails for about $80+ and Canton and Milodon pickups are $60-$80. That's $140-$160 for a unprepped Melling M84DHV and a little ol' stamped steel, punch machine pickup. For an extra $40, we give you a fully prepped oil pump with adjustable oil pressure and materials to make yourself an awesome custom pickup tube for your pan.
In the proces of doing our homework, we also called Titan to see what they offer for pickups, and we were told that Titan does not offer a pickup! Instead, they directed us to a guy who will take your Titan and your oil pan and then fab you a custom pickup at the tune of $180. That's about $580 for an entry level Titan pump and the custom fabbed pickup.
So you can really see the value of our pump & pickup deal for $199. We set out to offer something that falls between the Melling M84DHV and the Titan and we think this pretty much nails it.
If you don't do fab nor do you have access to a fab shop, we will happily do for you what Titan recommends and accept your oil pan and custom make that pickup for you for an extra $50 labor above the cost of the Stage 2 Kit.
PM if interested,
LO
p.s. How that for subtle promotion, Comp?

[058]

Incidentally, while we're on the subject, I should note that there are very few Ford powered drag cars, even fewer Ford powered nitro-methane cars. LO
There may have been a few more Ford powered pro drag cars if it weren't for NHRA banning any engines with a bore center over 4.84" "Any engine" narrows down to the Ford only with its 4.90" bore center. John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.

[LakesOnly]

Hmmmm. Me thinks there's a guilty conscience...never implied anything except that what you posted dosen't really qualify or quantify your pump in any way. Now if you said you had 12 of the last 24 finalists at the "X" Nationals using your pump, that might mean something. The point you were tryng to make was to sell a pump to someone who, IMO, dosen't need anything more than a stock pump. His motor and a fuel motor have nothing in common, especially oil system demands. Besides, if every funny car running a wet sump system had to go dry sump, then how is it that you're pump is still in a fuel funny car??
I don't want to get into it wicha, Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion.
No guilty consciece here Comp, I think my inquiry as you your motive comes from past "head butting" you and I have had with each other.
Never said any oil pumps are currently in the running; I only said that they support oiling requirments in engines even such as those. I've tried to emphasize this twice now. Of course no-one's running one today, sheez.
I am growing tiresome of publicy chasing down every little nuance of what I may have said, only to have you poke your finger in my chest. From this point forward, I will do my best to ignore such posts that you direct towards me.
LO

[LakesOnly]

There may have been a few more Ford powered pro drag cars if it weren't for NHRA banning any engines with a bore center over 4.84" "Any engine" narrows down to the Ford only with its 4.90" bore center. John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.
yep, if Ford would support the NHRA a little more, then maybe things could be different. But on the other hand, would they? I feel it's a little sleazy how the politics of all this works. When Force's motor was still being test in Washington, NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it." And then they got together the very next day just to vote it out. Just because it's a Ford...
While it indeed sucks that Ford does not support racing near to the extent that we wish, it's even less appealing to me how the NHRA responds to it.
LO

[Blown 472]

yep, if Ford would support the NHRA a little more, then maybe things could be different. But on the other hand, would they? I feel it's a little sleazy how the politics of all this works. When Force's motor was still being test in Washington, NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it." And then they got together the very next day just to vote it out. Just because it's a Ford...
LO
All due to the whiney bitches at chivvy as they know their junk can't compete. :burningm:

[058]

Lakes, I just think you could have been a little more subtle about your promotion.
I find it curious that you would criticize Lakes for the promotion of his product and state your opinion as to the need of his pump on something that in your opinion doesn't need it. You have used this forum on several occasions to promote your engine and parts why can't he do the same? Perhaps his pump fills a gap than may be needed if for nothing else the pump was checked and clearances verified for people that do not have the knowledge or the resources to do it themselves. I doubt you would install a pump without opening it up if for nothing else but to check it and make sure its going to work. In my experences I have found Melling pumps overall quality to be good but room for improvement. I also believe that a BBF jetboat pump needs slightly tighter clearance as the oil has further to travel in a much longer pick-up under accelleration that would require more suction pressure than in a v-drive where the pump is in the rear of the hull using a short p/u.

[steelcomp]

I am growing tiresome of publicy chasing down every little nuance of what I may have said, only to have you poke your finger in my chest. From this point forward, I will do my best to ignore such posts that you direct towards me.
:cry: :cry: :cry: You poor baby! Ya know, Lakes, you're a bit of a premadonna, aren't you. Pretty sensational account of what...the first post I've criticized of yours in MONTHS!! (Not that there weren't others that deserved it)
And right on cue...your own personal groupie, 058 got his in, as well. Hi five for both you guys!! :notam:
Stop taking things and making things so personal you whiney bitch.

[steelcomp]

NHRA caught wind of the project and called up there just to say to the guys, "we want you to know that we're going to outlaw it."
John Force had a Ford he was testing when NHRA said no. Walt Austin had a Ford ready to run in TAFC after 2 years of R&D. NHRA requested all the specifications and parts list for certification and turned it down after a short 2 week review. It seems Austin found a little more HP with the Ford and found the sleeves were more stable in the block. Maybe the Ford people didn't grease the palms of NHRA or maybe NHRA is afraid of something.
Ya know, gossip is a nasty thing...like two old ladies. I can only tell you this...there was a lot more to BOTH those projects than being 4.900 bore ctrs, and they were about as much a Ford product as a Top Fuel motor is a Chrysler.