Since I hadn't had any real experience with rebuilding Fords before I got My boat I went out and bought a couple of engine books. Both say that the 385 series engines are internally balanced. When I broke the Block on my engine a friend gave me a truck engine to use as a rebuild platform. Not sure of the year, but it says it is a 7.5 liter on the valve cover. Anyhow, right behind the balancer there is a counterweight on the spacer that fits on the crankshaft. So it looks to me like this engine is externally balanced. So now I need to know if this engine is worth messing with or should I keep looking for something to rebuild. Is this still the same basic block? I have already located a couple of sets of heads and another crankshaft and connecting rods with the football head bolts but if they wont work in this block I will probably pass on it.
Sounds like it is an external balance engine. You can use the EXTERNAL balance Crank in any 429-460 Block(use the correct Sleeve and flexplate/flywheel), but the earlier INTERNAL balance Crank can only be used in an early block due to the larger crank counterweights. The EXTERNAL Crank has smaller counterweights due to the weight of the counterpoise on the front and rear. The DOOE/D6VE-AA Rods will work in either case. Hope that helps. Dennis, RR
I'm just a pawn in the game of life...........
Thanks, I will probably pass on this one then since I did not get a flywheel with it and I can't use any of the ones I have.
All 460s made after 1978 were externally balanced. Ford reduced the overall diameter of the crank to accomodate the longer cylinders in the D9 blocks. You can ID the externally balanced crank as it will have a 3Y casting no. All internally balanced cranks [68 thru 78] will have a 2Y or some drivitive of "2Y" casting no. A 3Y crank will fit a early block but a 2Y crank will not fit a late block unless the early crank is cut down to clear the cylinders.
The available production cast iron block casting numbers are C8VE-B, C9VE-B, D0VE-A, D1VE-("xxx") and D9TE-AB. (Boss block is C9AE-)
I like to refer to all but the D9TE as the "early-style" blocks. The D9TE casting arrived in the 1979 model year and was utilized until the end of 460 production (mid-late 1990's).
For the most part, all blocks and rotating asemblies are interchangable between all blocks except the D9TE. A D9TE rotating assembly will fit into an early-style block, but the opposite is not true.
All 429/460 Fords are internally balanced engines except for the D9TE 460, which is externally balanced.
These block identifying marks (D1VE, etc.) are not actual casting numbers but are engineering revisions that are cast into the block castings themselves. And they are what we enthusiasts refer to when identifying our factory iron, as they give not so much the year that the block was made but rather the revision of the block as specified by said engineering revision. The actual date code is in the lifter valley.
Early-Style Blocks: For the most part (and with small exception), the C8VE, C9VE and D1VE blocks are all essentially the same configuration casting with the thinner main webs. The thicker main web block is the D0VE block, which may or may not have 4-bolt main caps on 2,3 & 4. (Very few D1VE blocks may be thick webbed.) All Ford production 385 blocks can be decked as needed, so the slight variation in deck height (give or take .020" over the years) is usually a non-issue detail.
D9TE Blocks: The externally balanced rotating assembly utilizes a crankshaft that has slightly smaller counterweights. This was done to so that the cylinders of the D9TE block could be extended about .1875" deeper towards the crankcase. I believe the cylinders were lengthened in the D9TE block because this block was revised to double as a big equipment truck block, and the dump truck rotating assemblies consisted of a very deep skirt piston that benefitted from the extended cylinder walls for support.
The deeper cylinders of the D9TE blocks are the reason that the early-style, internally balanced rotating assemblies will not fit (internal balance crank throws will not clear D9TE cylinders).
Since most prefer to use internally balanced rotating asembies in the performance applicaton, we usually opt for any block except the D9TE. There are also advantages to specific blocks within the group of early-style blocks, such as the D0VE-A's thick main webs, thick pan rails on some early-style blocks, etc.
Further, the D9TE block was presumed to be a lightweight ("late model") casting and therefore not very strong and also limited in it's overbore capability. But this belief is currently being re-evaluated for a couple of reasons:
No-one had yet evaluated D9TE cylinder wall thickness with a sonic checker, and preliminary testing suggests the block may not be so bad afterall.
Strokers have become popular and the D9TE's deeper cylinders offer more support for the increased-stroke rotating assemlies.
Most all aftermarket stroker kits use a crank with the dimensions of the externally balanced crank and so they fit the D9TE block as well as the early blocks.
Finally, there was a "Block Summit" of sorts that sonic checked/evaluated cylinder wall thickness of 35 blocks, and it was determined that there was no rhyme or reason as to which casting, foundry marking, date code, or anything could servie as indication as to which block may have thicker cylinders. A D0VE-A block could be done at .030" over and a D9TE block might go .140" over...it's really a matter of sonic checking. (Exception: C9AE Boss 429Block). For most blocks, 4.44" (.080") shouldn't be a problem.
LO
p.s. External balance engines are 1979 & up.
I think that about covers it. Thanks a lot. I am still considering this as a possible rebuilder cause the price is right (free) and really the only piece I am missing is the flywheel. My plan is to build a solid reliable 9.50 or 10.00 to 1 compression motor with a decent marine oriented cam. I cruise at 3200 rpm or lower if pulling the kids and would never see the high side of 5500 rpm This engine might be just fine for that.
If you need a 460 external balance Flexplate, see the website @ www.dscmotorsport.com They are on there and I have them in stock all the time. SFI approved. Dennis, RR
I'm just a pawn in the game of life...........
There really should be no real difficulty getting ahold of an externally-balanced 460 flexplate for a reasonable stack of $ bills. Sounds plenty comon.
There really should be no real difficulty getting ahold of an externally-balanced 460 flexplate for a reasonable stack of $ bills. Sounds plenty comon.
Yep, actually I bought one for the 1 ton last year. Someone had put the wrong one on and it broke the center out of the flexplate. I got the truck super cheap cause they all thought it was a rod knocking. I was just gonna put a new engine in it and my friend says " I bet the torque converter is loose or it has a broken flex plate. Sure made out on that deal. Not sure which I like better, my suburban with the 455 Olds or the 460 in the 1 ton They both pull hard up the hills and get crappy mileage to boot. :squiggle:
Well guys heres your chance to find out. I own a 79 Ford C800 with a 429 D9TE that I had rebuilt to go back into the truck but said screw it. So I ended up picking up a 78 Beechcraft Hawiian 28' offshore jet boat that needed a motor and interior. My bright idea was to stick my motor into it since it had a 460 previously. Well the marina just finished putting it all together ,had it since April, but says at high revs it vibrates a little. I'm thinking maybe the wrong flex plate. Guess we'll see I haven't been over to get it yet. The boat still needs an interior and then it should be good to go. I'll let you know how the D9TE works in a boat application. May end up doing a stroker out of it lots of ideas just gotta see how it performs first.
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What will I get my self into next :idea:
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