Reply With Quotewhere's the pics? i am running a front sump pan on my boat,had it in a kona before that, never hada problem.
A co-worker & friend of mine bought a '76 Omega project boat. Seems to be a fairly decent deal and I will be helping him a lot. The previous owner threw #8 rod in the 460 this year as he was showing it to a prospective buyer (sale failure) and just wanted out from under it.
My firend (who should be registering here sometime soon) paid $1800 for a good hull, decent interior (vinyl is pretty new but framing is about done in), the hood is long gone, recently rebuilt older black Dominator pump (no diverter), trailer is good (esp tires). The biggest drawback is the ammount of "redneck engineering" the boat & Trailer have seen, as well as being stored exclusively outside and seldom covered from the weather (the holley is Zink-grey from sun-fade). SUPPOSEDLY, the motor and pump were both rebuilt 10 hrs ago along with a cam-up with DuaneHTP Isky setup. Also, another co-worker has a complete short-block 460 (not assembled), good shape, heads included for $150 (missing 1 piston (no, I have no earthly idea why 1 haha))
We started stripping the 460 down today (block is done, hole in side along with top 2" of oil pan, rod lower end fills it nicely tho). As we dig deeper in, it starts to look like either the rebuild was short-cut here & there or was solidly half-a$sed. The oil atop the rockers looks awfully dark for 10 hrs (unless that included the break-in), the pile of crud atop the valley pan insert (next to the cast iron manifold) is OLD stuf never cleaned off), but it get's better. :sqeyes:
We pulled the manifold and found a small chunk of solid aluminum (maybe from a skirt), Lots of chunks of copper-colored flakes & bits (yes, we know, bearing), lots of greyish flakes & bits (can't tell if it is aluminum or lead bearing babbit), and even a few slivers of nicely blue-blacked steel (yea, bearing BACKER matterial). Most of this is concentrated arround the aft-most central drain opening in the casting (looks kind of like a volcano errupted and covers the aft half of the valley) We pulled the heads and pistons are not holed but, since he is working a ford, the plan is new pistons to push compression all he can. Cobra-Jet heads are out of the budget this winter.
I'm beginning to have a feeling that the "rebuild" may have been a head-job, cam & lifters setup, & bearings but nothing else. Crank may have needed a polish it didn't get. Would kinda fit with the "half-way" care the boat has had most of it's recent life (half-way seems generouis really, unfortunately).
That's as far as we got after work today. Should have the motor out sometime this week and the bottom opened up prior to the weekend.
Question for you ford folks: Are the oil pans you are running in your boats front or rear sumps? This one had a front-sump. Wouldn't there be a starvation problem on hard acceleration without a rear sump pan? I have seen on the boards here just such an occurence from a jetter someplace running an ex-V-drive motor with the backwards pan (putting the pan & pick-up in front as I THINK it was on a chevy).
I've taken some photos of the findings but haven't figured how to post them here. I guess you have to post them elsewhere on the net first, unless somebody wants me to e-mail them to them.
where's the pics? i am running a front sump pan on my boat,had it in a kona before that, never had
never had a problem
you have a problem!!!------ it just hasn't jumped up and bit you yet!!!
I too just bought an Omega to rebuild over the winter. I got it for $740.00 heck the tandem axle trailer with new tires is wourth that. I will post pics of my progress soon. Mike
Here ya go... Your right, that don't look good at all. Gives me the shivers!
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...valley-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data..._lower-med.jpg
http://www.hotboatpics.com/pics/data...shrods-med.jpg
Rebuild?
I have buddies that are running 460s with the stock front sump pan. One of them in particular, is running a 1996 crate motor, in a basically stock configuration. He's run that motor up to 72 mph at 5200 rpm and he holds it there for quite a while at times. So far no problems and it's going on it's 10th season.
I'd agree, however, that the bigger, baffled, trapdoor'd, rear sump pan is good insurance. I run one on mine.
They're damned expensive, but it's a justifiable expense in my mind.
We disected the 460 last weekend, here's what happened ..........
Previous owner needs to find a new engine builder ........... :notam:
#8 rod lost a NUT!!! (found the side of the rod, still in the bottom of the pan, broken off above and below the bolt boss.
Then #8 loosened up while WFO,
spun the bearing,
turned the crank journal the prettiest shade of blue-black you ever saw :cry: ,
snapped the rod somewhere on the loose side,
clanged it arround till it broke the loose bolt side off,
bashed 2 other holes in the block on the OTHER side while the #7 rod and the counterweight were using the rod-side as a pin-ball,
the #8 rod beat the crap out of the bottom of the pan as it oppened up untill the other side broke off and was thrown out the pan-block thru the hole I posted pic of. Pan bottom looked like it had met a shotgun blast.
It is an atractive "S" shaped piece now (the big end of the rod that was in the bilge), complete with still tight bolt/nut assy, makes Sam a nice paperweight on his computer desk.
Somehow, the DuaneHTP cam survived untouched. :smile:
The bearings were all looking bad, grooving, cutting, looked like some starvation issues were setting in as well as the pieces coming from bearing #8 making their way into the system. I'm sure Peaches (the previous owner( and No, I do not know how he aquired that nickname but he has had it for the 8 or so years I have known him)) was romping all over it as it blew showing off to a potential buyer. He may have starved it several times before the nut came off to pull the pin on the grenade.
Sam has since found a rebuildable 460, AND, a set of D0VE heads on what is a Hi-perf 429 (according to a breather/air filter housing on it) that is also rebuildable. As he sorts thru parts, he will likely have a few 429/460 parts for sale. Anybody want a 4v or 2v manifold? he has 1 of each.He will be registering on here one of these days when he gets off his butt. :rollside:
I agree Squirtcha. IMO, the biggest problem for the Fords, especially a strong one in a quick jet is acceleration starvation.
I mean from a dead start, a holeshot. I don't see a problem as long as all you do is pull skiiers up, tubes, etc.
Be loaded light, slam the loud-pedal all the way to the carpet, and a hard launch WILL try very hard to wash that front sump all the way to the back of the pan, just as it causes oil to try to climb the pan wall in a rear sump like a chevy. If it succeeds, and you are not watching, than just when your motor is working hardest, the oil pressure goes bye-bye.
as long as he keeps the stock pan hes ok with a front sump. tell him dont buy a after market front pan! i bought a mildon front pan and with a mildon pump and pickup well let say i had to put a new motor in the boat. i finnaly broke down and bought a hardin 10qt pan for 500. dollars.
Posting Permissions