SO NOw that ARNIE BLEW MILLIONS

[bigq]

I disagree. The taxpayers do control immigration. Vote for someone who has the huevos to address it. Perhaps you did not read this part:
That is fixing the education system to adapt to the student body.
Any more questions?
Although none of this crap has anything to do with what we voted on last night i agree with Hangin on the english speaking. This is a major burden on the schools and no one is doing shit about it and won't even discuss it. as long as we cater to people that won't even try to learn the language the teachers will have a hard time of it.
How about the union standing up for that?
What I don't understand is you just said your wife, mrsHH has a performance evaluation from the principle so why the big deal about what arnorld was proposing?

[Havasu_Dreamin]

Yes...it does happen.
For example, HR now runs my (non-union) company. Do you know how much ammunition I have to submit to get someone terminated for underperformance?
It's no different.
Considering I work in HR from a Systems perspective, I can relate.
There certainly is documentation requried to layoff an employee for underperforming. But after the documentation is gatehred, the employee is let go. with a teacher, and correct me if I am wrong, after the documentation si gathered are they not allowed to go before the rights board for kind of a second chance? Or is the rights board part of the documentation gathering process?

[Supultlbich]

They are on Probabtion for two years, I am not aware of any other job that has a period this long. Basically in the first two years you can be fired if the principal does not like you, regardless of how good you are....after that they are given a board of rights(name varies from district) and can still be shit canned after the proper paper work is completed.....
So why is everyone so up in arms about tenure.
Its because unless you work in and around teachers you have no clue what they go thru
I dont get it, teachers work hard and they work for a little money, they could make alot more in the private sector, but they MOST, not ALL care about educating the children
Next time any of you feel like walking on water, go sit in a 5 grade classroom for 6 hours and then tell me they don't deserve the money they make....
Have to agree with yo there, my wife has been home with our two kids the past couple of years and is looking into different career options. With an BA and masters degree she has done some substitute teaching and come home an absolute wreck. Two tears is plenty of time to decide whether or not someone can do their job. As far as salaries go, the distric we live in stars out at about 35,000, a little more with a masters.

[Havasu_Dreamin]

I think this, like most issues, gets spun around the axle, for lack of a better saying, because the few bad ones, teachers in this case, make a bad name for the vast majority of good ones. It's like the LEO debates on here every other month, same scenario, different occupation.

[Kilrtoy]

Actually, that's not true. The results of every election prove that the voter controls what is done on the iniatives. Now, when something is defeated or passed and then the courts get involved and reverse the decision, 'the will of the people', then the voter has no power. Prop 187 is a glaring example of this.
Now this I agree with PROP 187 needs to be fulfilled RIGHT NOW.....

[Sleek-Jet]

Political Rhetoric :hammer2:
Isn't the political process just great :sleeping:
It's better than the alternative... :hammerhea :hammerhea

[Havasu Hangin']

What I don't understand is you just said your wife, mrsHH has a performance evaluation from the principle so why the big deal about what arnorld was proposing?
The tenure thing would not affect my wife. She disagrees with it for all the young teachers coming up (who have to live at the poverty level), and may be turned off from teaching because of the couple extra years to reach tenure. Frankly...the "tenure" word is overrated anyway.
I disagreed on the union thing on principle. Don't get me wrong, I am not pro-union...but singling out certain unions is unfair. And to me, it was pretty evident to me that he was only trying to get back at the unions that outspent him on the last PR campaign.
I agree that these propostions were pretty much a waste of taxpayer's time...let alone money. We have much bigger fish to fry in this state.

[Mandelon]

[
Once the public learned the background...they saw through his flawed agenda (thanks to the teacher's union). Instead of fixing the education spending by:
A. Mandating English in classrooms
and/or..
B. Hiring and implementing more ESL classes through all grades
At my childrens' school they did away with the ESL classes because separating the kids because it might have made the English Learners feel bad. So now the smart kids twiddle their thumbs in class while they spend hours going over basics that the non english speakers haven't learned yet.
Their parents can't or don't help them. Dumbing down the classes is not the answer. But god forbid if you separate them, we wouldn't want to harm their feelings. The princinpal's answer was "Your kids are smart already, don't worry about them." Oh thanks.
The school's need help. 48% of our property taxes go to education. But I read that only 12% makes it to the classrooms. How many layers of middle management and admin do they need?
Maybe Arnold's plan didn't pass, but at least it was a step towards reform. None of them failed by much.

[HBjet]

So, why did the balanced budget prop fail? It seems to me that we dumped Gumby Davis because of his failure to control spending....Now the voters have reinfgrced that type of uncontrolled spending.
WHY?
I agree completely.

[Havasu Hangin']

At my childrens' school they did away with the ESL classes because separating the kids because it might have made the English Learners feel bad. So now the smart kids twiddle their thumbs in class while they spend hours going over basics that the non english speakers haven't learned yet.
Their parents can't or don't help them. Dumbing down the classes is not the answer. But god forbid if you separate them, we wouldn't want to harm their feelings. The princinpal's answer was "Your kids are smart already, don't worry about them." Oh thanks.
The school's need help. 48% of our property taxes go to education. But I read that only 12% makes it to the classrooms. How many layers of middle management and admin do they need?
Maybe Arnold's plan didn't pass, but at least it was a step towards reform. None of them failed by much.
It was a step...but a step backwards- he needs to look at reality in the classrooms, and how frustrated teacher's are.
If the state would incentify the districts on ESL classes, etc. (like Pete Wilson's 20-1 program did), then the districts would not be making that decision.
Right now, their hands are pretty much tied on non-English speaking kids, and trying to avoid lawsuits.