Reply With Quote[QUOTE]We are all responsible for our actions!It is sad to think that a tragedy like this makes all of us think about saftey.I know from this HTM owner it has deffently made me think..
Haulinazz, you are so right, if we don't regulate ourselves, you can bet your sweet ass that all of the do gooders in the land will invoke legislation and impose laws that will curtail boating as we know it today.
I have read every post on these and other forums since this tragedy happened, and seen all of the guessing as to what happened, well folk's the only ones that know that are not here and won't be, and that is sad.
Speculation as to what happened isn't what HA was trying to get across, it was the matter of responsibility, such as some form of safety gear for all involved, I love to go as fast as I can and have been doing it for years, in both drag boats and pleasure boats, and I do not want to see my chances to do it again legislated by the tree huggers and the life savers of this country.
Consensus being, go fast think safe, that's all.
[QUOTE]We are all responsible for our actions!It is sad to think that a tragedy like this makes all of us think about saftey.I know from this HTM owner it has deffently made me think..
Originally posted by HaulinAZZ:
I guess my point wasn't taken so I'll explain it a little better.
What happened was tragic to say the least.
Let's not speculate. We'll just state what's known.
We had 4 people in a boat not wearing PFD's or Helmets running a boat somewhere between 2-4 times the LEGAL speed limit on a short narrow lake during a high wind advisory. They aren't coming home again!!!
Let me ask you a question... How do you any of this? Were you there? Have you ever been to Castaic? It's not exactly what I'd call a short Narrow lake. If anything is ridiculous it's the 35mph speed limit that's in place there. As far as the rest, unless you were present at the time of the accident your speculating. Besides with the highwinds my "specualation" is that they were just out for a day of playing on the lake and a "freak accident" occured.. In which case you wouldn't get all "geared up" with lifelines etc...
RD
[This message has been edited by RiverDave2 (edited January 19, 2002).]
Discussion, YES, by all means! But SPECULATION DOES NOT = DISCUSSION! I may be wrong. BUT that's my opinion and I'm damn well stickin' by it! Won't even attempt to address all the speculative talk that has been goin' on; as to address it would be to imply that I am an informed source, and I'm not. I was not there, I didn't see it first hand, and I haven't spoken to anyone who did. So, whoever said that there are only four people who know what happened that day and they can't tell us is correct; and whatever else is said is 95% BS!
Well said Gig! None of us will ever know what exactly happened that day so we have no business judging any one involved in the accident.
To Gigamurph
Who is judging the accident anyway.It sounds like you are the judge and if it meets your "OK" then we can talk about it.We are not children and you are not the dad.What is wrong with speculation.Isn't this board for free thinkers to express themself.Must you be the thought POLICE.Nobody said anything bad .Do you think the police will look at our post and to help them make out their final report?Lighten up.There is nothing on this post that you have any right to critisize.
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by Doug The Jeweler (edited January 20, 2002).]
riverdave2 .I went to the lake the "quoteof the Narrows"is the north side of the lake away from the dam.That is were i saw the bouie in the water...We will never know what happened, lets hope we find out the details
I sat here reading D T J's post and as I was, I was composing a rebuttal and it hit me that if I post my answer to him that I would be burdening the bereaved and others with the exact insensitivities that I have chosen not to. So I will limit my post to the parts that have no direct bearing on this tragedy. First of all, D T J, if you have read any of my "few" posts you'd realize that asking me to "lighten up" is like asking the Pope to act more Catholic! Laughable request at best. Second; I am not judging anyone or their posts. I just think that alot of speculation is counter-productive and possibly hurtful to the loved ones left to struggle with this. Third; as to your comment on me being the "thought Police"; it's about as informed as your knowledge of the events that unfolded on that fateful afternoon. My abstinence from posting any theories is an extension of a sentiment that RiverDave2 started in the "Appropriate Thread" on 1/15/02. I simply chose to take it a step further and not post anything in regards to what happened or the compitence or intelligence of the men involved, as the families and friends of these four brothers could also read the posts at that thread. MY CHOICE! As you said, this is a free forum. So in closing, keep dazzling us with your theories, it is your right on this board. I just choose not to be an insensitive s**t and subject the bereaved and, if they may read these posts, the people investigating the accident with my 95% BS. Happy boating and I hope to meet you on the water sometime!
[This message has been edited by gigamurph (edited January 20, 2002).]
River Dave,
Originally posted by HaulinAZZ:
I guess my point wasn't taken so I'll explain it a little better.
What happened was tragic to say the least.
Let's not speculate. We'll just state what's known.
We had 4 people in a boat not wearing PFD's or Helmets running a boat somewhere between 2-4 times the LEGAL speed limit on a short narrow lake during a high wind advisory. They aren't coming home again!!!
Point 1:4 People were killed in a crash and all of their bodies were recovered without a trace of safety gear.
Point 2: Witnesses claim the boats speed to be about 80 MPH. I gave them the benefit of the doubt and said 2-4 times the speed limit (70-140) which is the slowest speed I can imagine a 30" cat getting upside down for any reason. 140MPH is 10 MPH slower than the speed reported the day before (by the chest pounding mrpumps).
Point 3: There was a high wind advisory that day, I was in the area at the time of the accident and the wind was ripping!
Point 4: I've been on Castaic plenty of times. Only once with Steve and triple digit speeds is something that lake isn't suited for!
Point 5: The 35 MPH speed limit exists whether you or any other user of the lake agrees with it. It's like the speed limit on my street. If I think it's too slow and disobey it. I risk the possibility of getting a ticket. If I get too many tickets I lose my driving privileges. Get it???? Or do you have a problem with maturity and responsibility too?? If I break the law (speed) and hurt somebody, they usually consider it criminal. Did you ever hear of involuntary manslaughter??? When I was young and dumb I used to speed on the streets, thump my chest and act like a Jackass in general. I guess I was just lucky enough to grow up and start acting like a responsible adult before I got hurt, or even more tragic, hurt somebody else. Why don't you take your speed grievances to the authorities about Castaic. I'm sure they'd be more than willing to raise the speed limits now, right slick?
Is there something here you think is untrue or disagree with???
I don't think I've speculated at all.
If I WERE to speculate I would say that from the chest thumping that mrpumps was doing the day before. The group talked about the doubting souls regarding the speeds they achieved the day before. As a group, I would speculate they discussed all the immature name throwing that went their way and decided to show us all! The egos had to be raging! I wouldnt be surprised if they took a camera to photograph the GPS and post it for all to see on the web. Something then went terribly wrong! If they dont (and probably wont) recover the boat, then well probably never know if it were mechanical failure, driver error or a design flaw with a PROTOTYPE (less than 5 built) boat! We all read the posts the day before, so speculation is not only going to happen, its completely warranted!!!!! We were reading the posts the day before remember. Didnt you edit several of your posts? Were you ashamed of what you said? Not man enough to stand behind your words?
Hopefully this tragic series of events plays out through your mind when you try to open a can of whoop ass on somebody when youve had a few to drink and the conditions might not be quite right!
Any time lives are lost, especially in motor sports, a thorough investigation and sometimes speculation should be used to EDUCATE those continuing the sport TO NOT HAVE THIS HAPPEN AGAIN! Shit happens, but stupid shit shouldnt.
[This message has been edited by HaulinAZZ (edited January 20, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by HaulinAZZ (edited january 20, 2002).]
What was it you said? Oh yeah. "Were you ashamed of what you said? Not man enough to stand behind your words?" RD2, by no means needs me or anyone else to defend him, but give ME a break! Still no definitive conclusions as to what happened; or what was being worn by the men; or if the weather conditions had anything to do with what happened. This is just what I was talking about in MY posts! This kind of talk is insensitive to the feelings of the bereaved, counter-productive, and at best, 95% BS! If you are on the investigative team, I hope you are able to come to a viable conclusion of what occurred that day; but why are you posting your "findings" here? Wouldn't they be better suited to appear in an official report first? If you're not on the investigative team, go away and come back when you have something that resembles some sort of compassion! INSENSITIVITY is not what is needed right now! Not from you, me, or anyone else! Have a heart!
Posting Permissions