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Thread: Citgo, there goes the competition

  1. #1
    Poster X
    If you haven't noticed yet, gas prices are on the rise again. Slowly, but definitely surely. Next to the Middle East, Venezuela is our largest source for fossil fuels. It's also no secret Chavez has been this administrations most vocal and vitriolic opponent. Citgos excuse is feeble at best for shutting down their American operations. Their refinery alone is one of the largest and most modern on the Gulf Coast.
    So, me being the conspiratorial hare to your blase everything will work out like it's supposed to tortoise... I think something is afoot? Certainly more than what is being let on.
    Without trade balanced by fair competition there is NOTHING to stop the juggernaut of oil price exploitation we are witnessing.

  2. #2
    Old Texan
    It was announced today Chavez is uping exports to china from 168K barrels per day to 300K.
    China has increased their consumption something like 200% each year for the last 4. Throw India's usage into the equation and global demand is growing astronomically. Like it or not it's a global economy and the USA is just a player like everyone else. We aren't in a position to dictate to others and capitalism drives it all.
    Buy low sell high, everyone is catching on.
    I hear what you're saying and I don't like it but a solution isn't apparent without some serious trade talks. Problem is getting all our players to work in stride to deal with their players. We need more businessmen and less politicians making the hard calls.

  3. #3
    Blown 472
    It was announced today Chavez is uping exports to china from 168K barrels per day to 300K.
    China has increased their consumption something like 200% each year for the last 4. Throw India's usage into the equation and global demand is growing astronomically. Like it or not it's a global economy and the USA is just a player like everyone else. We aren't in a position to dictate to others and capitalism drives it all.
    Buy low sell high, everyone is catching on.
    I hear what you're saying and I don't like it but a solution isn't apparent without some serious trade talks. Problem is getting all our players to work in stride to deal with their players. We need more businessmen and less politicians making the hard calls.
    What we need to do is produce our own and tell the ****ing bark eaters to go pound sand. Or convert to ethenol and tell the world to **** off.

  4. #4
    Steve 1
    We have plenty of our own Oil just get the tree Fags out of the way.

  5. #5
    Old Texan
    Something amiss in the heavens, the 4 of us all pretty much in agreement? Who'd a thunk.....
    Now if we could just get some of our idiot pols to wake the f--- up.

  6. #6
    Poster X
    The "tree huggers" aren't putting a dent in American production. Saying anything less is just uninformed. It's a fact that even the oil industry admits the cost of Alaskan wilderness exploration far exceeds the value of any refineable oil in the region. Best case scenario is a multitrillion dollar fiasco that would take 20 years to get into production and would only affect annual consumption by 4%.

  7. #7
    Steve 1
    Who in the Hell said anything about Alaska????????

  8. #8
    Poster X
    Pick a spot, you cannot produce evidence tree huggers are preventing drilling anywhere in the United States that is holding up a major oil basin. I could give a damn about the white hooded spotted owl or the flying squirrel but just arbitrarily spouting off a sound byte like it means something kinda gets in my craw.
    ps..I changed my mind. I like flying squirrels better than most people.

  9. #9
    SmokinLowriderSS
    The "tree huggers" aren't putting a dent in American production. Saying anything less is just uninformed.
    Talk about uninformed!!!!
    ANWAR,
    The Gulf Of Mexico,
    Coast of California,
    Coast of Florida,
    There are all manner of on and off-shore locations the US posesses that have oil reserves under them but the environmental groups have for 30 years succeeded in stopping all new production facilities. They have also succeeded in stopping all new REFINING facilities.
    It doesn't matter right now if we DOUBLED our own imports or production (supply) we could not refine any additional crude. We burn over 300 MILLION GALLONS of gasoline A DAY. We burn a very similar figure in DIESEL FUEL (between trucks and rails). Additional millions of gallons are burned daily in Jet Fuel, Kerosene fuel, and specialty fuels. Every state requires it's own special fuel blends, further eliminating the ability to cover shortage somewhere with excess somewhere else. Our current fuel production capacity is MAXED, and, as with all things, refining equip has to have maintenance occasionally, causing even more problems. Supply means nothing when you cannot use it.
    Of course, no notice is made of the fact that gasoline usage in the USA goes UP durring the summer. That would have ZERO connection to the increase in prices. Fixed supply crossed with increasing demand equals increasing price.
    Poser, you want a first year Mickey Mantle baseball card to cost $.02 too don't ya? That one too is a ripoff conspiracy sired by a monopoly of course (MLB).

  10. #10
    SmokinLowriderSS
    Pick a spot, you cannot produce evidence tree huggers are preventing drilling anywhere in the United States that is holding up a major oil basin.
    Ho hummmmmm:
    The Tip Of the Iceberg.
    11/09/05 - At least 22 House Republicans forced the leadership to remove provisions for drilling in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and the offshore continental shelf from the House Budget Reconciliation Bill. This is a huge victory for environmentalists and a huge defeat for the Republican leadership and the White House.
    Stripping Arctic refuge drilling from the bill is a huge victory for environmentalists, who have made the House their last stand in the decades-long fight to keep oil firms out of the region.
    9/21/05 - Thousands of opponents of proposed drilling in Alaska’s Wildlife Refuge traveled to Washington this week to protest the plan. Influential Democratic leaders joined the protestors, including Senators Hillary Rodham Clinton (NY) and John Kerry (MA). The drilling would disrupt the Refuge’s ecosystem including the migration patters of a vulnerable porcupine caribou population. Frigging Porcupine Caribou walking paths.
    7/12/05 - 12 environmental and public interest groups launched the “Exxpose Exxon” campaign yesterday by holding press conferences and events throughout the country. The coalition demanded Exxon Mobil change its stance on global warming and oil drilling in Alaska, with advocates vowing to boycott the company until changes are made.
    Then there is this:
    Left-wing activists who claim that the liberation of Iraq is really a “war for oil” are doing everything they can to prevent oil and gas drilling in ANWR or anywhere else within the United States. Many in the media are busy asserting that Alaskan Natives oppose ANWR drilling and that drilling poses a grave danger to Alaskan caribou herds. Neither of these statements is true.
    A typical example of media deceit on ANWR is this quote from MSNBC:
    “Congress could soon approve drilling in the refuge, a move opposed by environmentalists who along with Inupiat Eskimos also oppose offshore arctic development because of possible risks to migrating whales and other wildlife.”
    This passage strongly implies that the Inupiat are opposed to drilling ANWR—this is false. The Inupiat oppose only offshore drilling, which is not currently technically feasible in the ANWR area. Their support for ANWR on-shore drilling is explained on the website of the city of Kaktovik, AK (population 286)--the only human settlement in ANWR:
    “The essence of the Kaktovik position is that we would support oil exploration and development of the coastal plain provided we are given the authority and the resources to ensure that it is done properly and safely. Without the necessary provisions to ensure this protection, we would not.”
    Leftists point to one of the very few native groups to oppose drilling—the Gwich’in—but do not note that they are located hundreds of miles south of ANWR on the other side of the Brooks Range. The majority of Gwich’in live in Canada. Another native group opposing oil drilling in ANWR is the native city of Point Hope, AK—700 miles from ANWR. The vast majority of Alaskan Native corporations support drilling as do the vast majority of Alaskans.
    In Hawaii, where activists are working feverishly to reverse the two key pro-ANWR-drilling votes of Hawaii Democrat Senators Akaka and Inouye (pledged in exchange for Alaska Senators Stevens and Murkowski for the Akaka Bill, which would tribalize Native Hawaiians as Native Alaskans and American Indians), the Honolulu Weekly criticizes pro-drilling Alaskan Natives as “corporate”, denouncing one Native group as “the largest landowner in South East Alaska.” Other leftists denounce Hawaiian activists who accept Alaska-based funding. Apparently the only “real” Natives are the ones who line up with environmentalist dogma. In Alaska and Hawaii, ethnicity is being transformed into a political position.
    Media accounts of ANWR feature photos of caribou and musk oxen frolicking in fields of wildflowers. The Artic slope looks like this for about one month of the year. A more realistic image of harsh ANWR environment can be found in the photo galleries of the Kaktovik, AK city website.
    The Sierra Club claims that, “the harm to wildlife and this spectacular wilderness would be permanent and irreparable.” ANWR is 19 million acres – larger than Massachusetts, New Jersey, Hawaii, Connecticut and Delaware combined. If oil is found, less than 2,000 acres would be directly affected.
    Caribou herds in Alaska’s existing North Slope drilling areas have actually increased in size since drilling began. Caribou around the Prudhoe Bay oilfield increased from about 3,000 in the 1970s to over 32,000 today. The Porcupine herd, which occupies the ANWR areas currently blocked from drilling, decreased in the same period. If they were truly concerned about the caribou, logically the Sierra Club should be demanding more drilling, not less.
    Their agenda is revealed in the “Earth Charter”, endorsed by the Sierra Club and many other so-called environmentalists, which reads: "the dominant patterns of production and consumption are causing environmental devastation.” In other words, they want to destroy the free enterprise system and replace it with a system that “Promote(s) the equitable distribution of wealth within nations and among nations” – in other words, socialism.
    In order to destroy free enterprise, the eco-socialists are using false arguments about Alaskan natives, false images of life in ANWR and false claims about the effect of oil drilling on wildlife. Their real goal and its affect on the day-to-day life of millions of humans is contained in the preamble to the Earth Charter which reads: “when basic needs have been met, human development is primarily about being more, not having more.”
    In a first world context this leads to recession and unemployment. In a third world context this leads to poverty disease and starvation.
    Of Canadian developement of the Tar Sands area....
    The tar sands development is “putting unacceptable pressure on the environment,” says Julia Langer, of World Wildlife Fund-Canada.
    That’s pretty much what we heard from the California Wilderness Coalition, when it sued to stop a federally approved geothermal power project at Medicine Lake in northeastern California two years ago. The two proposed power plants would impact only 15 acres each, and would produce no greenhouse gases. Remember, it’s the eco-activists who tell us greenhouse gases are the most important environmental calamity in the world. Nor would the geothermal plants produce any radioactive wastes. The plants would even feed into the existing Bonneville power grid without any extensive new transmission lines.
    If the environmental activists and their media allies are protesting the Alberta tar sands and California’s Medicine Lake geothermal plants, what option does society have left — short of mud huts and darkness?
    From Green Corps own website:
    Arctic Refuge Victory Campaign:
    When the Alaska Coalition needs effective grassroots organizing to protect the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge from oil drilling, they come to Green Corps.
    For more than 10 years, the oil and gas industry has lobbied to exploit the last pristine wilderness area on Alaska’s northern slope, and each year, Green Corps has served as the grassroots field team to help defeat these efforts. In the fall of 2005, pro-drilling forces in Congress with allies in the Bush administration were pushing to include Arctic drilling in the federal budget. Drilling proponents hoped to use this back-door strategy to avoid drawing public attention to the issue, well aware of public opposition to drilling the Refuge. This was potentially the last stand for the Arctic Refuge.
    With Congress set to vote on the budget that would open the Arctic Refuge to drilling, the Green Corps organizers knew that it would take people power to win. Launching massive grassroots and media campaigns in critical states like Illinois, Wisconsin, New Jersey, Oregon, Washington, Michigan and New Hampshire, Green Corps organizers mobilized public outcry—with the goal of gaining the support of key House Republicans.
    In New Hampshire, Green Corps organizer Mary Nicol’s work to educate Rep. Charlie Bass (R-NH) resulted in one of the turning points of the campaign. Never a champion on environmental issues, Rep. Bass needed to hear from his constituents. Mary recruited over 200 citizen volunteers, including 52 activists that took an 18 hour ride to attend the Arctic Refuge Action Day in Washington, D.C. Using the skills she learned in Green Corps’ classroom training, Mary secured 35 stories about the Arctic Refuge in New Hampshire media outlets and signed on the New Hampshire Council of Churches to her campaign.
    Responding to the public outcry on the issue, Rep. Bass became a champion in the fight to protect the Arctic Refuge, circulating a letter to fellow Republicans in the House about the need to prevent drilling. His letter gained the support of 23 of his Republican colleagues, successfully blocking Arctic drilling from inclusion in the House budget.
    Other Green Corps organizers helped to bring thousands of concerned citizens to the Arctic Refuge Action Day in Washington, D.C. on September 20—the largest environmental lobby day organized in U.S. history. The Action Day brought together 5,000 citizens to the U.S. Capitol to hear political, religious, and Native American leaders speak, including noted environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Rhode Island Republican Sen. Lincoln Chafee, and Senate Democrats John Kerry (Mass.), Joseph Lieberman (Conn.) and Hillary Rodham Clinton (N.Y.).
    How many more do you want poser? You're wrong again. :idea:

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