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Thread: Solid roller lifters on a hydraulic roller cam

  1. #1
    ghittner
    Need input here. I'm running a Lunati 612 Lift with a 245 / 250 duration @ 50. 112 deg. centerline. I'm getting breakdown in my lifters for all intents, I've got a valve tick even after adjustment. I think I'm at the limit as far as a cam goes while still using hydraulic roller lifters? Is that right? Anyway, I'd like to use solid rollers on this cam. I don't see why I cant, do you guys? And what do you think of this cam for a blower application? I'm pushin' 8-10 pds. with World Casting oval port heads. Thanks for any input.

  2. #2
    junkyardhunter
    Need input here. I'm running a Lunati 612 Lift with a 245 / 250 duration @ 50. 112 deg. centerline. I'm getting breakdown in my lifters for all intents, I've got a valve tick even after adjustment. I think I'm at the limit as far as a cam goes while still using hydraulic roller lifters? Is that right? Anyway, I'd like to use solid rollers on this cam. I don't see why I cant, do you guys? And what do you think of this cam for a blower application? I'm pushin' 8-10 pds. with World Casting oval port heads. Thanks for any input.
    Thats really not that big of a grind you might want to look for other problems.

  3. #3
    ghittner
    That's nearly the largest hydraulic roller i've seen ground as far as I can tell. Am I wrong? Do they make them a lot bigger in a hydraulic roller? Whats the limiting factor?

  4. #4
    cfm
    Explain 'breakdown in my lifters.'
    What rpm do you run at WOT and what spring psi's are you using ?

  5. #5
    Infomaniac
    That is not that big of a cam.
    Are you using good lifters and about 150 on the seat?
    And yes I run solid rollers on hydraulic roller cams all the time
    I bump the spring pressure up to 170 - 180 on the seat and run about .005 valve lash.
    If you idle a lot you will need a solid roller wth pressure fed pins.

  6. #6
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    883
    I agree with CFM, I would bet your valve springs have gone south. Hyd roller lifters are heavy. Your cam is not all that large but you still going to need good seat pressure, something in the minimum of 150# on the seat. If the Lunati was sold with matching hyd rollers in the last 4 years then you have Morel lifters and that lifter in many independent test will run all day at 6400 to 6800 rpm with proper spring pressure.
    Yes you can change to solid roller lifters on the cam BUT with weak springs you are going to see the same results. Check your spring pressures before you do anything.

  7. #7
    ghittner
    Spring pressure is good, They are Manleys and I'm getting the "tick all the time on one lifter. I run to 6500 RPM or so and get no breakdown at that point. I'm wondering if the hyd. rollers can't take the pressure. What is the limiting factor in a hydraulic roller as far as max lift? I agree as far as a cam goes this is not huge, but it's hard to find a hyd. roller any larger, why do they not go much larger than this in hyd? Much larger and they seem to change to solid roller. Why?????

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    883
    A tick maybe some trash in the lifter. Drop the oil out of the engine and run some light weight 5W 30 through it for 20 or 30 minutes. May have to change oil a few times. This has worked before to flush out debris.
    Hyd roller lobes are available with .050 duratons in the 290 range and lifts on up over .500" lobe lift which is .850" lift with a 1.7 rocker.
    Hyd rollers are wonderful power makers in low to moderate rpm ranges. When you get in applications that run over 6500 rpm with a BBC heavy valvetrain then you need higher spring loads to control the lifters enertia. Hyd rollers lifters can collapse under some of these type loads so a solid lifter is used.
    Hope this helps.

  9. #9
    ck7684
    Invest in the lifters with that pop up in case you need to switch out the cam. Makes it a lot easier...

  10. #10
    TIMINATOR
    I do not ever use hyd rlrs in a boat application. Once the oil heats up, and it will, the bleed down is excessive., and power loss occurs. See what your top speed is with cool oil, then try it with normal heated oil, every boat we have tried this on shows a top speed loss. I was in on the Crane Hyd rlr thing from near the beginning back in 1985. They work ok on a small block because valvetrain weight is much less, and in a car the oil won't get nearly as hot because you can only "stand on it" for a short time, the high rpm bleed down doesn't have very long to occur either. Synthetic oil is leakier(thinner) don't use it, it makes the problem worse. There are bandaids: rev kit(allows lighter seat pressure by adding a spring to push down on the lifter),titanium retainers, locks and valves(pricey but it allows lighter spring pressure),replace your lifters twice a season(lifters are machined and lapped to smaller than ten thousandths of an inch, they will wear quickly to bigger tolerances at lake boat rpms and bleed down quicker),use a slower ramp rate cam(so now it is no better than a regular hydraulic cam HP wise). Aluminum heads make the problems worse, as they expand and contract about twice as much as iron heads, and this wears out the lifters quicker. Dyno tests show all kinds of wonderful hp gains that you will not have in the real world, they use new lifters, fresh oil, TEMPRATURE controlled oil, fully filled lifters and light springs, for every test. A dyno test sweep at 300 rpm/second takes only about ten seconds to run, from 3000 to 6000 rpm. The lifter hasn't time to bleed down. We tried all of the bandaids with the Crane thing and after 4+ months of "real world testing", I put a set of solid rollers on it and gained about 70 hp. When Crane wanted me to test again in the early 90s, similar results. Comp wanted us to try their new system about 3 years ago on my 565,14-71 blown Daytona, I treid it again and although it was better, I was still dissatisfied. Top speed dropped off by 7 mph with the oil warm.I have a 12 qt.pan,and a water to oil, oil cooler(BIG). As a fair test, I did what I allways do, put solid rollers on it, use the correct length pushrod, lash them at .005" and see what happens. As usual, the hyd rlr comes out for replacement with a solid roller. Comp replaced all of my hyd rlr parts with solid rlr stuff, for free, and I go back to adjusting the rollers once a year. I have had a lot of people in my shop argue with me about this, but until you have actually tried this test, you don't have a valid opinion. We have replaced jetboat hyd rlr cams with solid cams,at the lake, and put solid rollers on hyd rlr cams at the lake. These are my experiences. Other REAL WORLD ISSUES are: a dyno sits still, a boat is tossed around by the waves and acceleration, the oil is thrown up on the crank and tossed off thousands of times per minute, this seriously aerates the oil. Oil is not compressable, air is. IT IS THE AIR IN THE OIL THAT LETS THE LIFTER BLEED DOWN QUICKER,(that makes the EFFECTIVE oil viscosity less), AND ALLOWS THE PLUNGER DEPTH TO BE LOWER, this shortens the effective duration and actual lift. I have done this test many times, actually whenever somebody releases somthing that is the new "silver bullet". I try everything that I can, we do not experiment on our customers boats, we do not sell anything that we haven't tried or don't believe in. This is my business, my reputation, and how I DO business. Others experiences may vary. Let the discussion begin... TIMINATOR

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