V-Drive Questions...

[pw_Tony]

Hey guys, I was lookin at V-Drives and had a few questions.
I know v-drives the way to go from speed, but how much MPH can you expect from different horsepower.
I don't want to get in a big ordeal of weight, gears, props, runnerbottom vs. flatbottom.
Just wanted to get a typical figure for let's say an 18' flat bottom, such as what 400hp can do, 500hp, so on...
I know it's vague, but anything with some info could help.
Or some good combos with gears, and different boats. Thanks, Tony

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

Hey guys, I was lookin at V-Drives and had a few questions.
I know v-drives the way to go from speed, but how much MPH can you expect from different horsepower.
I don't want to get in a big ordeal of weight, gears, props, runnerbottom vs. flatbottom.
Just wanted to get a typical figure for let's say an 18' flat bottom, such as what 400hp can do, 500hp, so on...
I know it's vague, but anything with some info could help.
Or some good combos with gears, and different boats. Thanks, Tony
Its funny how many people think flatbottoms are all the same....
With all the different v-drive boat builders spanning 50 years how do you define typical?
http://www.v-drivevideo.com/jerrysga...20List%7E0.jpg
There were many manufacturers with multiple models and boats come in different weights (which weighs heavy on the subject.[pardon the pun ] ).

[vdrivedenis]

Wow, what a question. We have used Dyno 2000 for the last seven years to configure our cams, compressions, induction, fuel type and blower boost. This can save a lot of hard earned $$$ in experimenting. Unfortunatly, hull, gears, props and plate set ups are worth a good 50% of the speed battle.
Our Hondo 5/8 runner ran 104mph, with a 427 BBC with a mini blower and through the transom exhaust. If I recall right, it was about 600 hp. The same configuration with our 402 BBC ran 99mph with slightly less hp, both engines on av gas. The 427 with a 671 huffer and zoomies ran 114mph on carbureted gas at about 7-800 hp and 124 on injected alcohol with an all iron BBC motor. The alcohol addition showed about 8-900 hp. The same motor ran 144mph on alcohol with aluminum heads and a more aggressive cam, which showed about 1,180 hp on the computer program. This was in our Cole, which is about 200 lbs lighter than the Hondo.
Unfortunately, the 427 went to the big scrap yard in the sky at about 8,500 rpm, leaving us to race with the 402, which shows less hp, but more torque. With a gearing change, we are running better et's (7's), but less mph, (131-135mph).
This let us know that a little more torque and little less gearing far out weighed a little more hp for get up and go.
Next question you should ask is $$ per MPH. There is a hell of a curve and parts kill rate at 1,200 hp over 600 hp. The cost once you get past 100 mph goes up dramatically, (so does the rush!!). The old addage is true-your end speed is usually directly porportional to the thickness of your wallet. Gernade motors can go fast for a short time with little cost proportionally. The end cost of shaving corners is usually more than doing it right the first time.
Then there is nitrous-watch the hp go out of the top of the screen. Cheap hp if you get it right-this is running with the pin totally out of the gernade however.
As we build our own motors, do our own head work and do not dyno them, this is numbers by recolection, so take it with a grain of salt.
Everyone seems to get to their desired speed with different paths, but I highly recommend the Dyno program for playing with horse power charts.
Denis
PE034X Butterfly

[pw_Tony]

Wow, what a question. We have used Dyno 2000 for the last seven years to configure our cams, compressions, induction, fuel type and blower boost. This can save a lot of hard earned $$$ in experimenting. Unfortunatly, hull, gears, props and plate set ups are worth a good 50% of the speed battle.
Our Hondo 5/8 runner ran 104mph, with a 427 BBC with a mini blower and through the transom exhaust. If I recall right, it was about 600 hp. The same configuration with our 402 BBC ran 99mph with slightly less hp, both engines on av gas. The 427 with a 671 huffer and zoomies ran 114mph on carbureted gas at about 7-800 hp and 124 on injected alcohol with an all iron BBC motor. The alcohol addition showed about 8-900 hp. The same motor ran 144mph on alcohol with aluminum heads and a more aggressive cam, which showed about 1,180 hp on the computer program. This was in our Cole, which is about 200 lbs lighter than the Hondo.
Unfortunately, the 427 went to the big scrap yard in the sky at about 8,500 rpm, leaving us to race with the 402, which shows less hp, but more torque. With a gearing change, we are running better et's (7's), but less mph, (131-135mph).
This let us know that a little more torque and little less gearing far out weighed a little more hp for get up and go.
Next question you should ask is $$ per MPH. There is a hell of a curve and parts kill rate at 1,200 hp over 600 hp. The cost once you get past 100 mph goes up dramatically, (so does the rush!!). The old addage is true-your end speed is usually directly porportional to the thickness of your wallet. Gernade motors can go fast for a short time with little cost proportionally. The end cost of shaving corners is usually more than doing it right the first time.
Then there is nitrous-watch the hp go out of the top of the screen. Cheap hp if you get it right-this is running with the pin totally out of the gernade however.
As we build our own motors, do our own head work and do not dyno them, this is numbers by recolection, so take it with a grain of salt.
Everyone seems to get to their desired speed with different paths, but I highly recommend the Dyno program for playing with horse power charts.
Denis
PE034X Butterfly
That is some good info there! I do have Desktop Dyno2000 and play with it, but never took it as serious I suppose. I also liked using Advanced Engine Simulator, alot more technical and a pain in the ars, but maybe more accurate?
And as far as the hulls go, I understand they're all different. Just for a starter point, how about a Hondo18' at around 600lbs, flatbottom. Is that vague enough? Thank you for the info! I am studying all I can

[vdrivedenis]

My Hondo was originally about 550 lbs, and it has had some additional glass matting in the center and on the outside of the stringers, so I would guess it is about 575-600 lbs. (The original California Shaker). We have found that the Dyno program is especially good for cam changes and for induction changes. For example, we run a 671 non-tefloned blower, and by computer an 871 would only give us another 30-40 hp-not worth the bucks to us. We went from 75 mph to 99mph in the Hondo with the addition of a mini blower with 4 lbs of boost on a mild 402engine with the oval port heads and a .520 lift cam. We bought this blower set up used, so the additional 24 mph was cheap and reliable mph. TheClassic V Drive Club Members that attened the San Antonio Lake meets remember this combo vividly!
Good luck!
Denis

[pw_Tony]

My Hondo was originally about 550 lbs, and it has had some additional glass matting in the center and on the outside of the stringers, so I would guess it is about 575-600 lbs. (The original California Shaker). We have found that the Dyno program is especially good for cam changes and for induction changes. For example, we run a 671 non-tefloned blower, and by computer an 871 would only give us another 30-40 hp-not worth the bucks to us. We went from 75 mph to 99mph in the Hondo with the addition of a mini blower with 4 lbs of boost on a mild 402engine with the oval port heads and a .520 lift cam. We bought this blower set up used, so the additional 24 mph was cheap and reliable mph. TheClassic V Drive Club Members that attened the San Antonio Lake meets remember this combo vividly!
Good luck!
Denis
What engine set up did you have to go 75mph?

[Marty Gras]

It's funny you would put in the names of a couple of thieves, and leave out a couple of names that ALWAYS honestly delivered what they offered. But I guess when you "write the history" you can write it any way you want to see it. Jerry, please ask Andy Herbert how he likes Rick Bitz, then ask him how he likes ME! Circle boats are all the rage now, but I had a "Riviera" mold for more than ten years, Mike Patterson built his (2)"capsule boats" off of it. When after building TWO MORE HULLS WITHIN TEN YEARS out of that mold, I CUT IT UP! It took up room and NO GUYS WANTED TO BUY THE HULLS OR THE MOLDS ($2500.00) !!! So now EVERYBODY IS A CIRCLE BOAT RACER, but "CUCCI" is not getting rich, who is? Are all these "racers" rebuilding old shit, or are they stepping up to the new stuff? I can't understand why Joey is not "knee deep" in boat orders, when you guys talk about "all the new great stuff" that's going to be shown at the next race. Please "MR V drive Video, don't look at or talk to me, just like you have done in the past. I understand that YOU are way more important than I am, I just made a few boats go fast, while YOU made videos of those boats. I'm not going to "spill the beans" on FAMOUS GUYS who did 'bonehead things' in my shop, and I won't talk about others who borrowed money/parts/labor from me to go racing. (did or didn't pay me back) I'll just point out that you made a "great big list" of boat builders that YOU KNOW, but it's not a complete list.

[Marty Gras]

If you are such a HISTORY BUFF/ EXPERT, why weren't you looking at or at least monitoring the last "Boat Racer's Reunion"? (Irvine Lake) You seemed to totally have forgotten where all of this HISTORY came from. "I saw you, and YOU saw me" so why make the "old great guys" suffer because you and I don't connect??? Were the RACERS out on the lake more important than the OLD GUYS getting awards? I just feel that THE HISTORY seems to be easily forgotten or even twisted to how "some people" want it to read. When I stood up there with Stu Hillborn and we accepted our awards, it all came together for me. I seemed to be "right in the middle" of the past and 'this future'. The past guys were fading away and the 'future guys' didn't really care about the past. Leonard Fulkerson brought me into this business (not the sport) and I took over when he retired. I saw your post on another thread (old advertizments) about "Richard Lee" and his hardware. Leonard called Richard 2 times about his "bogus claim" to the Finish Line name. I own the name, Richard NEVER DID! I did all the aluminum work when Leonard was alive and I have done ALL of the Finish Line work since he has passed. Over the last 25+ years, we have been building our own brand name of boats, we have been fabricating our cavitation control hardware totally from stainless, and we have been developing our own surface drive (Hot Boat 1988) along with new hull designs. I just wanted you to know that while you are drinking with your racer buddys around the campfire, I'm working on the computer, trying to "find a better method". I'm sad that we are not friends, I always real welcome boat racers. As a famous American once said, "can't we all just get along?"

[pw_Tony]

WTF?

[V-DRIVE VIDEO]

It's funny you would put in the names of a couple of thieves, and leave out a couple of names that ALWAYS honestly delivered what they offered..
George I made that list a while back and admittedly its not a "complete list". I only used it now to try and show the wide range of boat builders and therefore boats.
But I guess when you "write the history" you can write it any way you want to see it...
Even if I had the inclination to "write the history",(which I don't) it would be impossible to make perfect. As it is, its hard to get 2 stories straight much less all of them....
Jerry, please ask Andy Herbert how he likes Rick Bitz, then ask him how he likes ME!
Circle boats are all the rage now, but I had a "Riviera" mold for more than ten years, Mike Patterson built his (2)"capsule boats" off of it. When after building TWO MORE HULLS WITHIN TEN YEARS out of that mold, I CUT IT UP! It took up room and NO GUYS WANTED TO BUY THE HULLS OR THE MOLDS ($2500.00) !!! So now EVERYBODY IS A CIRCLE BOAT RACER, but "CUCCI" is not getting rich, who is? Are all these "racers" rebuilding old shit, or are they stepping up to the new stuff? I can't understand why Joey is not "knee deep" in boat orders, when you guys talk about "all the new great stuff" that's going to be shown at the next race..
Am I supposed to have an answer for this?
Please "MR V drive Video, don't look at or talk to me, just like you have done in the past. I understand that YOU are way more important than I am, I just made a few boats go fast, while YOU made videos of those boats.
WTF? I've met you once or twice over the years and barely know what you look like. I did talk to you at needles one year and have never said anything derogatory to you or about you. Next time you see me, wave me down and kick me in the nuts. It sounds like I deserve it....:messedup:
I'm not going to "spill the beans" on FAMOUS GUYS who did 'bonehead things' in my shop, and I won't talk about others who borrowed money/parts/labor from me to go racing. (did or didn't pay me back) I'll just point out that you made a "great big list" of boat builders that YOU KNOW, but it's not a complete list.
Good! This isn't the time, place or thread for you to air your laundry. Its true I have a list in this thread that isn't an exact and totally complete list of v-drive boat manufacturers but thanks for pointing that out.:notam: