My ideas on increasing boating safety...

[HighRoller]

Like it or not, a free boating education course and/or pseudo"license" is getting to be a reality. Basic navigation is what everyone needs to know to avoid most of the crap that happens. Many new boaters are unaware that the lake is like a highway with right of way.
Lake Lice-same thing but renters need to take a 4 hour course before renting. This would educate the serious people and drive away those who just want to plunk down a few hundy and act the fool for an afternoon. Sea-Doos are now 12 feet long with 200+hp and are like missiles that can not only damage boats but kill passengers.
Take a number-Someone needs to figure out how many boats is a safe number for the Havasu-Laughlin stretch and enforce it by linking all launch areas together elctronically. Once that number is reached nobody else gets on. And everyone gets a number that must be displayed in plain view on the vessel. If you want to be a jerk off and several boaters want to turn your ass in for reckless and/or drunk driving, you can run from the cops with your 100mph rig but when you get to the channel the cops will pull your # and send you to the launch ramp. Your day is over. This will allow the boating community to enforce itself.
Gorge-Reasonable speed with radar enforcement. Yeah, speed traps suck but that little girl might still be alive if people were forced to drive like they had a brain.
In my perfect world people would just grow up and practice a little common sense and integrity to avoid stupid incidents. But if they can't someone has to force them to behave. And if they can't behave they should leave to protect the safety of the majority.
So what do you think? I'm gonna go cook some popcorn and put on my nomex underwear...

[ratso]

Like it or not, a free boating education course and/or pseudo"license" is getting to be a reality. Basic navigation is what everyone needs to know to avoid most of the crap that happens. Many new boaters are unaware that the lake is like a highway with right of way.
Lake Lice-same thing but renters need to take a 4 hour course before renting. This would educate the serious people and drive away those who just want to plunk down a few hundy and act the fool for an afternoon. Sea-Doos are now 12 feet long with 200+hp and are like missiles that can not only damage boats but kill passengers.
Take a number-Someone needs to figure out how many boats is a safe number for the Havasu-Laughlin stretch and enforce it by linking all launch areas together elctronically. Once that number is reached nobody else gets on. And everyone gets a number that must be displayed in plain view on the vessel. If you want to be a jerk off and several boaters want to turn your ass in for reckless and/or drunk driving, you can run from the cops with your 100mph rig but when you get to the channel the cops will pull your # and send you to the launch ramp. Your day is over. This will allow the boating community to enforce itself.
Gorge-Reasonable speed with radar enforcement. Yeah, speed traps suck but that little girl might still be alive if people were forced to drive like they had a brain.
In my perfect world people would just grow up and practice a little common sense and integrity to avoid stupid incidents. But if they can't someone has to force them to behave. And if they can't behave they should leave to protect the safety of the majority.
So what do you think? I'm gonna go cook some popcorn and put on my nomex underwear...
maybe a jock strap with a cup...

[mickeyfinn]

Like it or not, a free boating education course and/or pseudo"license" is getting to be a reality. Basic navigation is what everyone needs to know to avoid most of the crap that happens. Many new boaters are unaware that the lake is like a highway with right of way.
If you want to be a jerk off and several boaters want to turn your ass in for reckless and/or drunk driving, you can run from the cops with your 100mph rig but when you get to the channel the cops will pull your # and send you to the launch ramp. Your day is over. This will allow the boating community to enforce itself.
Gorge-Reasonable speed with radar enforcement. Yeah, speed traps suck but that little girl might still be alive if people were forced to drive like they had a brain.
In my perfect world people would just grow up and practice a little common sense and integrity to avoid stupid incidents. But if they can't someone has to force them to behave. And if they can't behave they should leave to protect the safety of the majority.
So what do you think? I'm gonna go cook some popcorn and put on my nomex underwear...
I'm in favor of a similar law for automobiles. I heard a comedian refer to it as the stupid law. Everyone with a license is issued a suction cup dart gun. The stupid law says that if you see someone driving stupid you shoot their car with a dart. If the police catch you with more than three darts on your car you get a ticket.

[vee-driven]

Some people are stupid and sometimes those stupid people die and sometimes those stupid people take innocent victims with them. In most motorsports such as drag racing, boat racing, nascar and motorcycle racing safety is the utmost importance and they still die and to think in the boating world a free class or no alcohol or not renting water craft or boats to people is gonna solve a damn thing is fukn retarded. STUPID people die and take innocent people with them and thats all there is to it and will always be that way nothing is gonna change and if this sport is too danger for some get a nice couch and stay your ass home.

[HighRoller]

I feel the same way, but the stupid way might be the only way to prevent us ALL from sitting on the couch during the summer because Havasu is now a fishing only lake. Wait a sec....those bass boats haul ass. Nothin' like Jim Bob blowin' your doors off with his metal flake rig that has a nitrous'd 300X with a 32" jack plate. The only thing touching the water is the prop!
I saw a guy with a twin OB Cougar who was making fun of the Bass boat guys. He entered a fishing derby and blew them all away to the first fishing spot doing over 120. Then as they all pulled into the cove he was sitting on the bow with a beer and his fishing pole ragging them. "Hey, I thought you said that thing was fast!" Can't recall what the show was called but it was hilarious.

[HM]

***boat did an article on this and the author completely ignored that the research they had actually was AGAINST boater safety courses and licensing. There research showed a significantly higher accident rate amoung boaters who HAD taken a safety course. I know you have your personal learning curve about navigational rules. But I look at it this way......
Look at ALL the idiots on the road. These people have a license, can take "safety" classes to get out of points on their record, and have to buy insurance by law...and there is an endless line of morons causing major accidents every day and 1000 times that many near accidents. Look at your post in the "freeway pet peeves" thread....MORONS!
I am totally against safety courses...at least with MY tax dollar. I want to see people PROSECUTED! I am old testament...and eye for an eye!
But, we are in the new America where it has to be someone elses fault...and even if it was your fault...you really didn't mean to and you probably have suffered enough....right? Or it is the fault of the person with deep pockets because they will often settle because it is cheap even when they are right.
The problem with safety courses is you can't educate stupid people. Even when you don't know all the rules...common sense will lead you to the reasoning of most laws. The feel good laws are the one's that don't make sense. Most laws are broken by people who don't give a shiat or are too stupid to figure it out. You can't legislate for either group(edit) and expect this to be a deterrent..laws are rarely a deterrent..they are mostly cause and effect. You can't put those people thru some magical education and they turn into "Good boaters."
Ain't gonna happen. More freedoms will be taken away and it will ultimately turn into a revenue stream to support the beaurocracy created to enforce it and monitor it and will completely miss the reason for creating it. Look at almost every government program out there and most of the time the title of the program is an oxymoron.

[Boatcop]

The reason for Boating laws are the same as for any other laws. Because people can't take responsibility for their own actions,or use common sense in their day-to-day lives.
"There's no law against hanging off the swim step and getting towed behind a wake board boat."
(At least there didn't used to be.)
"It's my right."
"They're taking away my freedoms."
"Our Country was formed on freedom."
"The man's keeping us down"
How about:
"I've been boating all my life. Why should I have to take a course."
Because you've been doing it wrong all your life. That's why!
Laws are not made to oppress the law abiding, responsible citizen. They are made to try and prevent the stupid and irresponsible from taking the rest of us out.
We can only sit back and watch people self-destruct and take others with them before something has to be done. Legislators don't sit up at night thinking of ways out of the blue to screw over the public. Before most laws are even considered there are studies to see: 1) if it's actually a problem and 2) If the law will help stop that problem. The answer to both of those has to be "YES", or it won't even make it through the first step.
When I first started getting involved in this business, boating fatalities were around 1,700 a year. Laws were passed, enforcement stepped up and now that figure is less than half of that. With about twice as many boats on the water.
1. There was a problem
2. The laws helped stop (or at least reduce) that problem.
If we were the same as we were back then, we'd have 3,500 fatalities a year, rather than 650-700.
The Government can only sit back and watch people fail to do what's right and continue killing and maiming innocent people for so long before they take action.
While a lot of people are responsible and try to do what's right, there's a good portion that either can't or won't. Hence new laws.
And just like you teach school to the stupidest kids, you pass laws for the stupidest people, those who can't or won't use common sense and responsibility.
And the rest of us suffer for it.

[vishus]

BC,
I helped a sunk jet in Laughlin this past weekend. The local LE in Laughlin would not help recover the boat. They asked if everyone was O.K., but they COULD NOT help with getting the boat out of the channel. Is this a liability issue? Is it similar to the issue in Gilbert, AZ where the fire department WOULD NOT put out a house that was on fire in a county island. No one wants to get sued over personal property.
My mother in law was yelling at LE to help and they said they couldn't. I talked to her later and was trying to explain what I thought was the reason they couldn't help (see above).
Is that correct?
thx.sid

[Boatcop]

***boat did an article on this and the author completely ignored that the research they had actually was AGAINST boater safety courses and licensing. There research showed a significantly higher accident rate amoung boaters who HAD taken a safety course. I know you have your personal learning curve about navigational rules. But I look at it this way......
Look at ALL the idiots on the road. These people have a license, can take "safety" classes to get out of points on their record, and have to buy insurance by law...and there is an endless line of morons causing major accidents every day and 1000 times that many near accidents. Look at your post in the "freeway pet peeves" thread....MORONS!
I am totally against safety courses...at least with MY tax dollar. I want to see people PROSECUTED! I am old testament...and eye for an eye!
But, we are in the new America where it has to be someone elses fault...and even if it was your fault...you really didn't mean to and you probably have suffered enough....right? Or it is the fault of the person with deep pockets because they will often settle because it is cheap even when they are right.
The problem with safety courses is you can't educate stupid people. Even when you don't know all the rules...common sense will lead you to the reasoning of most laws. The feel good laws are the one's that don't make sense. Most laws are broken by people who don't give a shiat or are too stupid to figure it out. You can't legislate for either group(edit) and expect this to be a deterrent..laws are rarely a deterrent..they are mostly cause and effect. You can't put those people thru some magical education and they turn into "Good boaters."
Ain't gonna happen. More freedoms will be taken away and it will ultimately turn into a revenue stream to support the beaurocracy created to enforce it and monitor it and will completely miss the reason for creating it. Look at almost every government program out there and most of the time the title of the program is an oxymoron.
I have to disagree with you on this one, Frank.
One of the things we put in every accident investigation/report is whether the boater(s) had any formal boating education/training.
Consistantly and across the nation a full 80%-90% of those involved in accidents had NO formal boating training.
I'm not sure what Hot Boat based their info on or who did their research, but it sure wasn't anyone in the Boating Safety community.

[HighRoller]

BC and HM, great posts. HM, I agree with your post in concept. I don't think the education piece will prevent morons from hurting people. But I do think it will help bridge the knowledge gap for those who are simply naive to the rules. I've met tons of nice people on the road and the lake who simply did not know the rules. The other deal is that once these people have signed a piece of paper that says they have "listened" to what the rules are, it's easier to bring enforcement against them when they act the fool.
Dude, don't get me wrong. I think dropping the hammer is the right thing. But in reality how many people cut you off and throw the sticks down and speed away? The cops don't have boats that can keep up with these idiots. We need to use technology to put idiots in check if we don't want the cops to start driving Skaters and engaging in high speed water pursuits.
The easiest solution is to enforce ourselves. Beyond that, make it so each boat operator is less anonymous.